Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[mchughcb]

Another 9 billion Euros sleep walking into ww3

[mchughcb]

4 hours ago, Mungler said:

Don’t bother, you will wear yourself out 😆

If you read his long reply to your original post, I think he has actually agreed with you on all fronts,  but it’s dressed up in long disagreeable paragraphs.

Back on topic, I don’t general or partial mobilisation is going to help Putin much (and certainly not in the short term) or give him whatever it is he thinks this is all about. But hey, he’s a master tactician right and all of this (including the large scale ‘tactical withdrawals’ and significant loss of equipment) is all part of the master plan remember 😆 Indeed, it’s all going swimmingly for Russia right now 👍

The front is spread over a large area. I understand that less than a few thousand regardless of type of forces were opposing (soldiers, militia, MPs) a force over 15 thousand attacking izium. I understand that the Ukrainians suffered about big losses in their push. Kherson offensive on the other hand was halted with massive losses.

I also understand that the partial mobilisation will result in Russian troops taking control over the militia and the reservists will free up other professional troops from elsewhere Iin Russia to deploy to the front. This is different from the private military contractors that agree to go to the front. If 300,000 extra troops go to the front my guess is you will start to see some massive break through counter offensive operations. IMHO.

[mchughcb]

8 hours ago, welsh1 said:

Generally speaking and this is taken as a rule, well equipped well trained and well disiplined troops are the deciding factors in engagements/ wars.
While the usa may like to outnumber the enemy by a large factor, you only have to look at well trained armies who are well equipped and you will see they are usually the deciding factors.
The British armed forces has proven this many times from Rorke's Drift through to the Falklands and many wars in between.

The russians are badly trained, their kit is not fit for purpose and their morale is tanked, the ukrainians have at their disposal the latest technology and they have inflicted losses on the russians that show a smaller army can fight back and win with the right kit.

Russia is famous for ww2 when they threw people at the enemy and lost many millions to win, that will not happen in this war, moscow is not threatened , most russians do not know the truth about the war in ukraine, but today men of conscript age are desperatly trying to leave russia, because they now realise they will probably die if sent to ukraine.Putin smacks of desperation as his little incursion has made him look a fool and he is desperatly trying to gain credibility, he doesn't want to stand to close to steep flights of stairs or stand on a balcony as we all know what happens when the powers that be think you are no longer a viable option .

 

It's almost as if taking out the best trained azov battalion in mariupol and lysychansk was a distant memory. In the words of professor Michael Clarke, the next few weeks will be crucial.

[Mungler]

This is Vietnam all over again.

How hard do you think conscripted troops will fight as opposed to those who are fighting for their freedom and their homes? Well, we’re about to find out, again…

Oh I forgot, yes of course, we were told by some on here that Zelensky was going to deposed in a revolt and it would be all over in Russia’s favour by June.

Indeed this thread when reviewed will make for some hilarious reading - some of the predictions from the Russian shills are so far from reality it hurts. Mental note : pay no attention to a word they say going forward.

[oowee]

2 hours ago, mchughcb said:

The front is spread over a large area. I understand that less than a few thousand regardless of type of forces were opposing (soldiers, militia, MPs) a force over 15 thousand attacking izium. I understand that the Ukrainians suffered about big losses in their push. Kherson offensive on the other hand was halted with massive losses.

I also understand that the partial mobilisation will result in Russian troops taking control over the militia and the reservists will free up other professional troops from elsewhere Iin Russia to deploy to the front. This is different from the private military contractors that agree to go to the front. If 300,000 extra troops go to the front my guess is you will start to see some massive break through counter offensive operations. IMHO.

They have to first find the reserves. Many will be just 1 year trained. Most will know whats going on so will not be keen. Then they need some equipment. Where is that coming from? More meat for the grinder. 

[Mungler]

10 hours ago, mchughcb said:

Another 9 billion Euros sleep walking into ww3

Just on a point of order, I do find it odd that you (and others) post so much content which is ostensibly against any support of Ukraine - the above video focusing on the cost of providing support to a country that wishes to remain independent and repel an invader. 

Why no video on the cost of this war to Russia? 

And still no comment or substantive criticism of Putin or Russia? Why is that?

I think the best those sympathetic to Russia can muster is ‘Putin’s made an absolute mess of it, he’s sought conflict and failed in his ambitions, indeed he’s losing on every front. Just be wary of a lunatic who has painted himself into a corner.’

 

[discobob]

15 hours ago, henry d said:

TANGENT ALERT, we (RN) were given information about aircraft leaving certain airfields and the direction. 

Yep - used to get them at JCUFI back in 1987 - they would be FLASH for us......

[Rewulf]

19 hours ago, Mungler said:

Don’t bother, you will wear yourself out 😆

If you read his long reply to your original post, I think he has actually agreed with you on all fronts,  but it’s dressed up in long disagreeable paragraphs.

What are long disagreeable paragraphs? 😂

Youve got to the point now where I can't have a discussion with someone else, where I'm not criticising anybody, without you butting in and trying to make me a {you've found a new word} 'shill' 

You're getting a bit stalker~ish now, I'm surprised youve not bought Ukraine up in every thread I post in, but give it time 🤣

[Raja Clavata]

37 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

What are long disagreeable paragraphs? 😂

Youve got to the point now where I can't have a discussion with someone else, where I'm not criticising anybody, without you butting in and trying to make me a {you've found a new word} 'shill' 

You're getting a bit stalker~ish now, I'm surprised youve not bought Ukraine up in every thread I post in, but give it time 🤣

From an obnoxious bystander perspective: It is indeed getting a bit creepy...

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

What are long disagreeable paragraphs? 😂

Youve got to the point now where I can't have a discussion with someone else, where I'm not criticising anybody, without you butting in and trying to make me a {you've found a new word} 'shill' 

You're getting a bit stalker~ish now, I'm surprised youve not bought Ukraine up in every thread I post in, but give it time 🤣

What are you wibbling on about? 😆

 

46 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

From an obnoxious bystander perspective: It is indeed getting a bit creepy...

Shhhh

We can start another Brexit thread if you like 😆

 

[mchughcb]

6 hours ago, Mungler said:

Just on a point of order, I do find it odd that you (and others) post so much content which is ostensibly against any support of Ukraine - the above video focusing on the cost of providing support to a country that wishes to remain independent and repel an invader. 

Why no video on the cost of this war to Russia? 

And still no comment or substantive criticism of Putin or Russia? Why is that?

I think the best those sympathetic to Russia can muster is ‘Putin’s made an absolute mess of it, he’s sought conflict and failed in his ambitions, indeed he’s losing on every front. Just be wary of a lunatic who has painted himself into a corner.’

 

I don't need to criticize Putin. You seem to be doing a great job by yourself. I don't believe either side but I don't have my head so far up my **** that when I hear the media all talking the same one sided view like covid lockdowns I know something isn't right.

[Mungler]

Just now, mchughcb said:

I don't need to criticize Putin. You seem to be doing a great job by yourself. I don't believe either side but I don't have my head so far up my **** that when I hear the media all talking the same one sided view like covid lockdowns I know something isn't right.

It’s perfectly fine not to believe either side but to consistently only post criticism of only one side (being the invaded party) is noteworthy.

I don’t pretend to be neutral - I think Putin is a despotic invading murderer so I don’t have to pretend to have balance in my views 😉

[Raja Clavata]

14 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Shhhh

We can start another Brexit thread if you like 😆

 

I'd cut your losses if I was you.

[Mungler]

2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I'd cut your losses if I was you.

Well, there’s no point is there - we’re out, rowing our own boat and that’s democracy for you.

Mind you, it’s since turned out it was democracy heavily influenced by Russian skullduggery 😆

Incidentally there’s a great documentary on Netflix about ‘Wire-card’. It touches on the Kremlin sponsored stirring of nationalism across Europe seemingly to bust up the EU. I digress…

[mchughcb]

I daresay you aren't neutral, I got the insane, despot bit, and everybody that doesn't parrot your simplistic view is a shrill.

I think, should Australia get involved in the free West Papua movement and start a war with 200 million Indonesians. Should Australia send more troops to Solomon Islands when they just signed a deal with 1.6 billion Chinese to setup their navy there? Should Australia have sent troops to fight the Indonesians in East Timor.

Probably not, but hey our government without much ado sends $55M in ammo to a corrupt country in eastern Europe no Australians can find on a map to kill people they don't know and complain about budget cuts to defense.

[Raja Clavata]

5 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Well, there’s no point is there - we’re out, rowing our own boat and that’s democracy for you.

Mind you, it’s since turned out it was democracy heavily influenced by Russian skullduggery 😆

Incidentally there’s a great documentary on Netflix about ‘Wire-card’. It touches on the Kremlin sponsored stirring of nationalism across Europe seemingly to bust up the EU. I digress…

There is no point trying to debate anything with you, I learnt that a while ago and you've applied the same playbook in your "discussions" with Rewulf.

I used to think you posted stuff on here just to be popular with a certain demographic on this forum and not really believe it yourself. I came to the conclusion that probably wasn't the case a while ago. Nothing to discuss.

PS - I was originally replying to Rewulf, not you. 

[Mungler]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

There is no point trying to debate anything with you, I learnt that a while ago and you've applied the same playbook in your "discussions" with Rewulf.

I used to think you posted stuff on here just to be popular with a certain demographic on this forum and not really believe it yourself. I came to the conclusion that probably wasn't the case a while ago. Nothing to discuss.

PS - I was originally replying to Rewulf, not you. 

Your love of all things European has made your skin very very thin on the topic of Brexit or any criticism of the EU.

The next time there’s a brexit / eu thread I shall watch intently on your balanced approach to the debate 😁

[Rewulf]

27 minutes ago, Mungler said:

The next time there’s a brexit / eu thread I shall watch intently on your balanced approach to the debate 😁

Wouldn't be bad if you tried a more balanced approach on this one. 

You seemed to have fashioned yourself as superhero defender of Ukraine 😂

Do you actually have any connection to Ukraine, or do you just have a real deep hatred of Russia? 

Not that you will answer, but I am genuinely interested where the bile comes from. 

[Mungler]

Just now, Rewulf said:

Wouldn't be bad if you tried a more balanced approach on this one. 

You seemed to have fashioned yourself as superhero defender of Ukraine 😂

Do you actually have any connection to Ukraine, or do you just have a real deep hatred of Russia? 

Not that you will answer, but I am genuinely interested where the bile comes from. 

I was scoffed at previously, but I genuinely believe the invasion of Ukraine to be a moral issue. The invasion is the most abhorrent, entirely unnecessary and inexcusable act which cannot be supported directly, indirectly or tacitly.

The world slept as Putin previously elbowed his way into his neighbours and the invasion of Ukraine to me is the line that has to be drawn and which has been crossed.

When the indefensible is defended or attempted to be explained away, as the posts come forward which are either outright Kremlin propaganda / nonsense or which are overtly critical of Ukraine only (and thus tacitly supportive of Russia) I will happily jump and push back to add balance. 

The good news is that some of the early overtly pro Russia / Putin posts have calmed down as they have proven to be manifestly untrue and incredibly unpopular against the groundswell of opinion going against Russia and the invasion.

That’s pretty much it. 

[Newbie to this]

49 minutes ago, Mungler said:

The invasion is the most abhorrent, entirely unnecessary and inexcusable act which cannot be supported directly, indirectly or tacitly.

The world slept as Putin previously elbowed his way into his neighbours and the invasion of Ukraine to me is the line that has to be drawn and which has been crossed.

All sounds very familiar.

[Mungler]

1 minute ago, Newbie to this said:

All sounds very familiar.

If you’re going to make the point about Blair’s illegal war in Iraq which I absolutely didn’t ever support, well you can, but it doesn’t alter my view on the morality of the Russian invasion of Ukraine or how that should be dealt with by the global community now.

Moreover, where does it take us? Blair and Bush ballsed up twenty years ago and so Putin gets a free pass into Ukraine and no one should say or do anything? I’m pretty sure most Ukrainians wouldn’t agree with that view.

 

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

If you’re going to make the point about Blair’s illegal war in Iraq which I absolutely didn’t ever support, well you can, but it doesn’t alter my view on the morality of the Russian invasion of Ukraine or how that should be dealt with by the global community now.

Moreover, where does it take us? Blair and Bush ballsed up twenty years ago and so Putin gets a free pass into Ukraine and no one should say or do anything? I’m pretty sure most Ukrainians wouldn’t agree with that view.

 

Just pointing out the West's hypocrisy.

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

Just pointing out the West's hypocrisy.

Maybe so. Does that then automatically  give Putin a free pass to invade Ukraine then?

[Rewulf]

4 hours ago, Mungler said:

I was scoffed at previously

No you weren't, but you've been doing a lot of scoffing since. 

 

4 hours ago, Mungler said:

I genuinely believe the invasion of Ukraine to be a moral issue. The invasion is the most abhorrent, entirely unnecessary and inexcusable act which cannot be supported directly, indirectly or tacitly.

No one really 'supports' it, but there are questions. 

Questions that you don't like to hear. 

4 hours ago, Mungler said:

The world slept as Putin previously elbowed his way into his neighbours and the invasion of Ukraine to me is the line that has to be drawn and which has been crossed.

The world didn't sleep, it got the big bad sanctions out, sanctions that suited its agenda, while it continued to buy Russian gas and oil, because it suited them. 

No one cared about ukraine then, and no one cares about Ukraine now. The whole 'moral' issue is an illusion, that some government are using to whatever benefit they believe they can get. 

4 hours ago, Mungler said:

When the indefensible is defended or attempted to be explained away, as the posts come forward which are either outright Kremlin propaganda / nonsense or which are overtly critical of Ukraine only (and thus tacitly supportive of Russia) I will happily jump and push back to add balance. 

The good news is that some of the early overtly pro Russia / Putin posts have calmed down as they have proven to be manifestly untrue and incredibly unpopular against the groundswell of opinion going against Russia and the invasion.

That’s pretty much it. 

That's a whole lot of blah, with a side order of blah. Why did Russia invade Ukraine, start there, and work up? 

'Putin is mad' , is a cop out, it explains nothing, land grab and empire building equally lack evidence or merit. 

35 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Maybe so. Does that then automatically  give Putin a free pass to invade Ukraine then?

Of course not, and no one said that, but if you think this happened on a whim, why would he need a pass, and why not do it 8 years ago, where it would have been over in a month. 

Why wait till conditions were the least favourable? 

Start answering the hard questions, and then you might get the easy answers. 

[Newbie to this]

48 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Maybe so. Does that then automatically  give Putin a free pass to invade Ukraine then?

Not sure where I stated that.