New Beretta Shotguns

[Scully]

24 minutes ago, Gerry78 said:

Scully I buy standard steel cartridges usually gamebore or eley or what ever is in stock I’ve never bought a box with the High performance stamped on The packaging my friend who uses a modern auto bought it few years back We were flighting a tidal foreshore and he’s HP Steel made no difference as I knew were we could intercept the duck I’m making the point there seems to be a macho image of HP steel Long distance shooting which I totally disagree with I’ve lot of older guns which a gun dealer told me when the lead ban came into force that they would be useless Thou and behold I’m still shooting most of them with no ill effects on The barrels or chambering using standard steel You make a great point if people want to push out to greater ranges and I’m talking a Wildfowling view then bye all means maybe a 10b way to go 

#Side note# some of the guns I’ve put standard steel through have been choked 3/4 full 

Good for you. When I first bought steel shot cartridges I wasn’t aware there was such a thing as standard or HP, so just bought what was available. 
I bought loads of the things, and while I have no Gamebore super steel 3’s left, I realised eventually that these are classed as HP; I put them through an old Winchester 101. 
Have just had a look and still have some Lyalvale Express steel 3’s and the odd box of SAGA. The Lyalvale have advice amongst other things of not to be used in guns proofed to less than 850 Bar, the SAGA have no pressure rating advice but both sport disclaimers. 

[SuperGoose75]

I have a mint 687 Silver Pigeon ll sporter, bought new in 2010 with the intention of using it over in the UK to go Wildfowling, as it met the criteria for the use of steel shot. It has the optima chokes and the fleur de lys stamp. It was the time Beretta were revamping the silver pigeon range and all the Sporters in the range..2,3,4... were steel shot proofed. I just liked the 2 version.(The gun stands in the cabinet having fired less than 1000 cartridges) ''at clays'' and was never used for Wildfowling.

I toyed with buying the SP 3.5 O/U shortly after that (Which had steel barrels) but opted for a different gun that was more friendly on the pocket. A decision I don't regret.

I assume Beretta like most other European gummakers will be making their guns in that particular prize range with barrels intended for the safe use of steel shot nowadays. Anything else would be going backroads as most people buying a new gun for shooting live game will want peace of mind.

That said I've no doubt there are are plenty of steel being shot through guns that don't bear the fleaur de lys stamp. I read of some having there tight fixed chokes reemed out to accommodate steel shot safely. I've also seen plenty of photos of burst barrels and muzzles by shooting HP steel through tight chokes.

I'm far from an expert on the use of steel shot as we here in Ireland can still use lead shot for everything. Although lead is being fazed out over the next couple of years Lots of shotguns guns getting handed in to be scrapped due to the ban of lead shot. The Beretta in the cabinet might get more use in the near future.

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by SuperGoose75

[enfieldspares]

Will there ever be the same with Beretta as with Winchesters (as in pre-64) or Smith & Wesson (as in pre-Bangor Punta)?

[Gerry78]

14 hours ago, Scully said:

Good for you. When I first bought steel shot cartridges I wasn’t aware there was such a thing as standard or HP, so just bought what was available. 
I bought loads of the things, and while I have no Gamebore super steel 3’s left, I realised eventually that these are classed as HP; I put them through an old Winchester 101. 
Have just had a look and still have some Lyalvale Express steel 3’s and the odd box of SAGA. The Lyalvale have advice amongst other things of not to be used in guns proofed to less than 850 Bar, the SAGA have no pressure rating advice but both sport disclaimers. 

👍👍👍

[wymberley]

On 20/06/2022 at 22:40, Scully said:

The only difference between HP steel and standard steel is shot size. 
As steel traditionally patterns tighter than lead, then logic dictates there is no point going tighter than 1/2 anyhow, so what is the point in having our nitro proofed guns re-proofed, or in fact proofing any new guns for steel if it is recommended we go no tighter than half? 
Like you say, all the information you need is available on the internet…..or is it?
 

From t'net, can anyone confirm what I think I read/understand that for HP steel proof there is an additional pressure reading taken further down the barrel than is the norm?

[Scully]

31 minutes ago, wymberley said:

From t'net, can anyone confirm what I think I read/understand that for HP steel proof there is an additional pressure reading taken further down the barrel than is the norm?

If so, does it mean anything? I could understand it if steel shot proofed guns were made from different materials or in a different manner, but they’re not. 

[wymberley]

36 minutes ago, Scully said:

If so, does it mean anything? I could understand it if steel shot proofed guns were made from different materials or in a different manner, but they’re not. 

I haven't a clue, but it might to someone thinking of getting their prize possession so proofed. It would have been made in the same manner using the same materials, but possibly quite legitimately and in order to save weight - or any other valid reason - the barrels were struck such that where a canon was not required they didn't make them as such but it sailed through proof then. but would it have done so with an additional pressure applied in a differing area from the norm?

Fortunately, all of this rigmarole is not going to affect me.

[Scully]

29 minutes ago, wymberley said:

I haven't a clue, but it might to someone thinking of getting their prize possession so proofed. It would have been made in the same manner using the same materials, but possibly quite legitimately and in order to save weight - or any other valid reason - the barrels were struck such that where a canon was not required they didn't make them as such but it sailed through proof then. but would it have done so with an additional pressure applied in a differing area from the norm?

Fortunately, all of this rigmarole is not going to affect me.

Perhaps it would mean something if tested at the muzzle? 
Fortunately it won’t affect me either. 👍

[grahamch]

On 21/06/2022 at 14:07, Scully said:

Ok. I’m aware of that, but for steel also?
Is there a proof for standard steel and another for HP steel, and if so why? Given that folk are now saying no tighter than half choke even with HP, then why proof for HP given that nitro proofed guns can handle standard steel through any choke? 
I know I’m repeating myself here, but my nephews Browning Crown had a ‘lead only’ sticker on its fixed choke 1/2 & 1/2 barrels, but he has been advised to submit it for HP steel shot proofing and multi Teagueing. I just wonder why there is a need ( of either ) if the advice is to go no tighter than half? 
Also, a dealer told me that the nitro proofed Miroku I was looking at was multi Teagued ( with a complete set including Full ) and therefore would be ok for steel shot. 
🤔

Given that the Americans just seem to get on with it, it makes you wonder what’s going on with all this illogical and contradictory ‘advice’ here in the UK. 
 

Thanks, I’ve been using HP steel on and off for years, in old guns, in direct contradiction to current advice, and will continue to do so. I have no intention of having any of them reproofed, it just isn’t necessary. 

Is the regulation of proof not different in the states via SAMMI with no actual proof house as in the UK?

 

A pal had the same issue with his Crown - had it taken out to 3/8 in each barrel and HP proofed.

[Scully]

24 minutes ago, grahamch said:

Is the regulation of proof not different in the states via SAMMI with no actual proof house as in the UK?

 

A pal had the same issue with his Crown - had it taken out to 3/8 in each barrel and HP proofed.

I think it is yes. 

Thereby proving it didn’t need it! 🙂

[enfieldspares]

10 hours ago, Scully said:

If so, does it mean anything? I could understand it if steel shot proofed guns were made from different materials or in a different manner, but they’re not. 

Weigh the barrels of two otherwise exactly identically models. One a made from the outset to be steel proofed gun and a made from the outset for standard proof and also measure the barrel wall thicknesses if the weight you tested is different. That's the only way to tell if there is a difference in how they are made. If they are the same weight within a few grams then gauge the forcing cones to see if they are cut differently. I don't know.

Edited June 22, 2022 by enfieldspares

[wymberley]

14 hours ago, Scully said:

I think it is yes. 

Thereby proving it didn’t need it! 🙂

It may be worth perusing the NAS info' whereby it's all done voluntarily, but done it is.

[Scully]

13 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

Weigh the barrels of two otherwise exactly identically models. One a made from the outset to be steel proofed gun and a made from the outset for standard proof and also measure the barrel wall thicknesses if the weight you tested is different. That's the only way to tell if there is a difference in how they are made. If they are the same weight within a few grams then gauge the forcing cones to see if they are cut differently. I don't know.

They’re not made any differently. 
 

59 minutes ago, wymberley said:

It may be worth perusing the NAS info' whereby it's all done voluntarily, but done it is.

I don’t know what the NAS info’ is, sorry. 

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

They’re not made any differently. 
 

I don’t know what the NAS info’ is, sorry. 

Not surprising seeing as how I screwed up - it should have been ANS, Apologies. American National Standard. If you didn't know, you'd have trouble deciding whether you were reading CIP or SAAMI.

[Scully]

25 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Not surprising seeing as how I screwed up - it should have been ANS, Apologies. American National Standard. If you didn't know, you'd have trouble deciding whether you were reading CIP or SAAMI.

😀No worries. May give it a gander sometime, thankyou. Like I say, it isn’t really something that’s going to bother me too much. 

[Krico woodcock]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

😀No worries. May give it a gander sometime, thankyou. Like I say, it isn’t really something that’s going to bother me too much. 

 

1 hour ago, Scully said:

😀No worries. May give it a gander sometime, thankyou. Like I say, it isn’t really something that’s going to bother me too much. 

Are you still stock piling lead cartridges for the future Scully 🤠

[Scully]

48 minutes ago, Krico woodcock said:

 

Are you still stock piling lead cartridges for the future Scully 🤠

🤫😀