Old farrier Posted July 17, 2022 Report Share Posted July 17, 2022 this is just a heads up for 4.10 users Bought a thousand express 410 cartridges having a bit of a issue with some fired 80 cartridges today happened 3 times those off you that use semi automatic and pump 4.10 should be careful if your using them they fire ok but when you eject the empties sometimes the head comes off leaving the case in the chamber Be careful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted July 17, 2022 Report Share Posted July 17, 2022 Sounds like they are particularly high pressure, I wouldn't fire any more and would be going back to dealer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Stonepark said: Sounds like they are particularly high pressure, I wouldn't fire any more and would be going back to dealer The dealer is aware Id have thought there would be a indication on the primer if it’s high pressure tbh I didn’t get any feeling of a high pressure when shooting them certainly not got as much oomp as the hull equivalent Edited July 17, 2022 by Old farrier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted July 17, 2022 Report Share Posted July 17, 2022 If the steel head is too thin for the pressure, it may be showing the first indication due to being fire formed and detaching from the shell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Stonepark said: If the steel head is too thin for the pressure, it may be showing the first indication due to being fire formed and detaching from the shell Ok thanks for the information ill let you know what the dealership comes up with just wanting to warn anyone using them especially through a semi/ pump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 17, 2022 Report Share Posted July 17, 2022 Could it possibly be - with no sign of over pressure apparent when firing - that there is an unfortunate mis-match of permissible tolerances with this particular cartridge/chamber relationship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted July 17, 2022 Report Share Posted July 17, 2022 How recent did you buy these. I have a slab...part used of their shells and to date had no problems and they shot very well. I'm sure the manufaturers would want to know about that right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Walker570 said: How recent did you buy these. I have a slab...part used of their shells and to date had no problems and they shot very well. I'm sure the manufaturers would want to know about that right away. Bought them last week part of a large order 4 minutes ago, wymberley said: Could it possibly be - with no sign of over pressure apparent when firing - that there is an unfortunate mis-match of permissible tolerances with this particular cartridge/chamber relationship? Possibly but it’s happened in two different guns with different chamber tolerance’s One older gun one new one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted July 17, 2022 Report Share Posted July 17, 2022 may be helpful to other .410 users if you post the batch number of the affected shells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2022 31 minutes ago, harkom said: may be helpful to other .410 users if you post the batch number of the affected shells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2022 Just now, Old farrier said: I included the 2.1/2 as I had one of them come off last week this isn’t a isolated incident initially though it maybe strong ejectors or dirty chambers I’ve checked and polished chambers ejectors aren’t overly strong also tried different guns it’s a nuisance to me a potential hazard to others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted July 17, 2022 Report Share Posted July 17, 2022 A very good heads up. Lylevale need to know. They have always been receptive to comments in my memory. The ejectors on my Yildiz are pretty strong as you witnesed last year, throws 'em 4-5yrds no problem. It is a fault in manufacture without doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, Walker570 said: A very good heads up. Lylevale need to know. They have always been receptive to comments in my memory. The ejectors on my Yildiz are pretty strong as you witnesed last year, throws 'em 4-5yrds no problem. It is a fault in manufacture without doubt. I’m sure it’s just a glitch for them they have had a few problems sourcing cases heads ect apparently not criticising the product as all manufacturers have the odd bad slab go through just something to look for it you shoot a lot of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger687 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 On 17/07/2022 at 17:31, Old farrier said: The dealer is aware Id have thought there would be a indication on the primer if it’s high pressure tbh I didn’t get any feeling of a high pressure when shooting them certainly not got as much oomp as the hull equivalent Primer signs are only useful when dealing with rifles. Once you start seeing pressure signs on primers on shotgun shells you're already far in excess of the maximum chamber pressure regs. Unfortunately the only way to reliably gauge pressures in shotgun shells is to send them for testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 Just now, Smudger687 said: Primer signs are only useful when dealing with rifles. Once you start seeing pressure signs on primers on shotgun shells you're already far in excess of the maximum chamber pressure regs. Unfortunately the only way to reliably gauge pressures in shotgun shells is to send them for testing. That’s my next step if I don’t get a response from the manufacturers to be honest it’s unacceptable has anyone else here had heads coming off cases in any caliber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 Hope you get it sorted Mate, good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 17 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Hope you get it sorted Mate, good luck. Well I’m not sure if it’s for me to sort 🙄 this is how I see it I had a problem I made the dealer aware ( very helpful and apologetic) he contacted his supplier/the manufacturer no reply from them yet to acknowledge the issue? once they acknowledge it if they choose not to do anything about the problem I see them as being grossly negligent that’s just my view of it I opened a different slab yesterday and fired 100 problems the same with this slab and tomorrow I’m opening another slab hopefully I won’t have a issue I think trying 3 separate slabs is more than fair testing for them and there products I definitely would NOT shoot these cartridges in a pump or semi auto If I have a problem tomorrow I shall be taking all that I have back and requesting a refund Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 Yes, I think both you and the seller have been perfectly reasonable. Let's hope Lyalvale Express are too, they are only in Lichfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 I only live just up the road and would be knocking on their door. Certainly if you don't get a response by next weekend then a telephone call to Lylevale would be my next move. Again thankyou for raising the problem BUT do all the other purchasers read PW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, Walker570 said: I only live just up the road and would be knocking on their door. Certainly if you don't get a response by next weekend then a telephone call to Lylevale would be my next move. Again thankyou for raising the problem BUT do all the other purchasers read PW Probably not but I don’t know the other purchaser’s that’s why I went down the route I chose let’s see what happens tomorrow when I try slab number 3 definatly DO NOT USE cases for reloding if your into picking them up from clay grounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 Any chance of cutting one open and weighing the contents, especially the powder with a mini scale and posting a photo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 I've never had that happen on any cart .410 or otherwise. And I've tried a lot of different .410 carts . And a few layvale ones too . A bit worrying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 Yes, although I usually proclaim Lylevale 410s as a good cartridge...I have just tried a slab of their new 3 inch and had no problem.... this concerns me. I used a few of their newish 3 inch last season and they performed very well. I mau have a back door access, no names no pack drill, let me have a word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Stonepark said: Any chance of cutting one open and weighing the contents, especially the powder with a mini scale and posting a photo? I can do that for you im also going to put micrometer on the brass before and after firing although to be fair to express I would like to give them time to respond to my dealers email to them and see what they can sort out if that’s ok with you all 1 hour ago, Ultrastu said: I've never had that happen on any cart .410 or otherwise. And I've tried a lot of different .410 carts . And a few layvale ones too . A bit worrying I’ve seen it happen a very long time ago paper cases swelled up and stuck in the chamber using a cartridge extractor pulled the heads off the extractor had a hooked other end for removing the tube however modern cartridges especially plastic cases shouldn’t suffer from the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted July 23, 2022 Report Share Posted July 23, 2022 Just out of interest , what shotgun and do you have a second 410 to see if that gives the same result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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