Zero Issues

[RyanMc]

Hi All,

After some advice on zeroing. Changed to a Wraith HD from Hawke scope I had previously. What in practical terms are people doing to accurately zero, the issue I have is the 17hmr leaves such a small hole that at 100yrds its near on impossible to see. Walking back and forward multiple times isn't great on the ground available.

Anyone used MPBR (max point blank range) to success. States zero at 30yrds will leave me zeroed at 145yrds also, option for 55yrds zero giving zero again at 105yrds.

Summarised I have zeroed in a few times but the main problem is confidence in the zero, 50/60 yrd night shots at rabbits on Friday night and I hit nothing denting the confidence again - previously with a pard007a and scope combo wasn't much of an issue even at longer ranges.

 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, I would invest in a bird spotting scope and telescopic tripod, they are not to expensive as a kit, this will save the walking, a target board with 4 practice cards will give you more zero shots , but use a black marker pen on bulls eye as better with day use night vision 

Edited August 15, 2022 by oldypigeonpopper

[Walker570]

Yes, I have a Wriath and zeroung is a bit of a trial.  Fortunately even at foxes I don't shoot much over120yrds on my areas and consequently zero my rifles at 50yrds spot on. Check the written word for fall of shot and the average works out at 1 1/2 inches at 100yrds.  I appreciate this is critical on a small target but try setting zero at 50, then fire a shot at 100 and take a walk, hope this helps and you only have to make one 'journey'.   I was always led to believe that the difference at 100 was more or less the same as the height of the centre of your scope to the bore of the rifle.   My 17 Remington  zeroed at 50yrds prints 1 inch high at 100 but that is doing 3800fps at muzzle.

[Weihrauch17]

Shoot n c targets.

[Walker570]

Just now, Weihrauch17 said:

Shoot n c targets.

Yes, forgot those, but even sometimes a little 17 cal bullet leaves a very small print.  They are good though and use them all the time.

[wymberley]

27 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Shoot n c targets.

Good bit of kit.

If it helps, with a 2" sight height a zero of 115 yards will give you a max of minus to plus back to minus of 0.5" at 32 to 128 yards in theory with all things being equal. Should it help, Given your info (sight height, MPBR) I can amend the figures.

[RyanMc]

Thanks for the pointers. I have actually got some 2" shoot n c type sticky targets. will get them out, problem as mentioned the 17hmr leaves a tiny imprint. 

I was aiming for 1" high/low for the MPBR. I'll have a go at 32 and 128 to verify and learn what the drops/rises are. 

[Weihrauch17]

1 minute ago, RyanMc said:

Thanks for the pointers. I have actually got some 2" shoot n c type sticky targets. will get them out, problem as mentioned the 17hmr leaves a tiny imprint. 

I was aiming for 1" high/low for the MPBR. I'll have a go at 32 and 128 to verify and learn what the drops/rises are. 

I zero my 17H with them at 100 yards no problem, just take something to view through a spare day scope etc.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, my friend has a 17 HMR and we start at 25 yards, then 50, then 100, between 50 and 100 theres no visible difference, 100 to 150 there's a slight drop but 5/10 mm , that's with a Photon XT 50 mm 

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, RyanMc said:

Thanks for the pointers. I have actually got some 2" shoot n c type sticky targets. will get them out, problem as mentioned the 17hmr leaves a tiny imprint. 

I was aiming for 1" high/low for the MPBR. I'll have a go at 32 and 128 to verify and learn what the drops/rises are. 

Your peak (+0.5") is at 82 yards. If you fancy a 2" MPBR, then for a 135 yard zero your two 1" troughs are 17 and 152 yards and your 1" peak is at 90 yards

[RyanMc]

1 hour ago, Weihrauch17 said:

I zero my 17H with them at 100 yards no problem, just take something to view through a spare day scope etc.

I had it MacGyvered to the top rail of the the Wraith, helped some, but the cows came to investigate...lol. thought I was good at 80 yards (giving no noticeable rise/drop at 50 or 100yrds) but wasn't confident again.

I'll try some of the tips above and bring a helping hand to spot for me at a safe distance off to a diagonal closer to the target. 

1 minute ago, wymberley said:

Your peak (+0.5") is at 82 yards. If you fancy a 2" MPBR, then for a 135 yard zero your two 1" troughs are 17 and 152 yards and your 1" peak is at 90 yards

👍

[RyanMc]

Evening all.

Had a go out this afternoon, bit windy but got a hollow in the field that was perfect at ground level. Got sighted in at 40/104yrds (20gn HMR) MPBR and 43/111yrds (17gn HMR). Half inch low at near zero, same high far zero.

Found the main issue! The cantilever riser rail i have fitted just isn't stiff enough and has been bending. Initial shots at 40yrds were a whopping 14" high! Bit puzzled at first where the shot was landed till I saw a hold blew through the extreme right side of the old telegraph pole the target was against.

Anyway sighted in and just practiced at switching distance every other shot. Just have no confidence in the zero at anytime. I ordered the Wraith long bolt action mount which hopefully sorts my issue out, thanks to the helpful team at Optics Warehouse, price matched and then helped me sort the £15 postage option out.

Thanks again all for the help.

[oowee]

8 minutes ago, RyanMc said:

Evening all.

Had a go out this afternoon, bit windy but got a hollow in the field that was perfect at ground level. Got sighted in at 40/104yrds (20gn HMR) MPBR and 43/111yrds (17gn HMR). Half inch low at near zero, same high far zero.

Found the main issue! The cantilever riser rail i have fitted just isn't stiff enough and has been bending. Initial shots at 40yrds were a whopping 14" high! Bit puzzled at first where the shot was landed till I saw a hold blew through the extreme right side of the old telegraph pole the target was against.

Anyway sighted in and just practiced at switching distance every other shot. Just have no confidence in the zero at anytime. I ordered the Wraith long bolt action mount which hopefully sorts my issue out, thanks to the helpful team at Optics Warehouse, price matched and then helped me sort the £15 postage option out.

Thanks again all for the help.

Sounds like you are on the right track. Sort the kit first then work up your zero. I would look to zero first for where and how I want to shoot. So for me I am shooting off sticks at night with NV. The reticle centre is probably 2.5cm across at 100m so I don't worry too much about mpbr and the like. For me a simple 2.5cm high at 100m is good for anything I can confidently hit at night. If I can see it and hold on it I can kill it.

[RyanMc]

45 minutes ago, oowee said:

Sounds like you are on the right track. Sort the kit first then work up your zero. I would look to zero first for where and how I want to shoot. So for me I am shooting off sticks at night with NV. The reticle centre is probably 2.5cm across at 100m so I don't worry too much about mpbr and the like. For me a simple 2.5cm high at 100m is good for anything I can confidently hit at night. If I can see it and hold on it I can kill it.

Thanks oowee. Thats the thing, I'm doing a mix of shooting from open area to small fields approx 20m long, tight hedge rows and orchards. The 17hmr gives me foxing to 100yrds+ down to 30yrds... 

My reasoning behind MPBR was to point and shoot at any distance out to just over 100yrds to 1" without any thinking of holdovers etc. Especially at night with NV, still getting used to it and judging distance, seem to lose some depth of field with it.

Will sort the kit out during the early part of next week all being well and hopefully get a nice calm day to re-zero on stubbles.

[RyanMc]

Bracket arrived and fitted today, wasn't expecting it to at least monday. But initial appearances and feel is much better, stiffer setup. Sorts out eye relief and overall height over bore. Will report back once sighted in during the week.

[ditchman]

good thread..........sensible and practicle replies

[murph3010murph]

Firstly I would buy splatter targets. I have a wraith HD on my 17hnr and can easily see my poi on splatter targets.  But I have a different poi of my bipod than I have on sticks.  So I zeroed profile 1 on wraith for bipod shots. Then set profile 2 to bipod zero took shots of sticks and then adjusted to the lower POI off sticks. Then save that profile.  So when I'm on sticks I use profile 2. Then if I'm on a bipod profile 1.

Hope that helps 

Murph

[RyanMc]

2 minutes ago, murph3010murph said:

Firstly I would buy splatter targets. I have a wraith HD on my 17hnr and can easily see my poi on splatter targets.  But I have a different poi of my bipod than I have on sticks.  So I zeroed profile 1 on wraith for bipod shots. Then set profile 2 to bipod zero took shots of sticks and then adjusted to the lower POI off sticks. Then save that profile.  So when I'm on sticks I use profile 2. Then if I'm on a bipod profile 1.

Hope that helps 

Murph

Hi Murph,

Thanks for the tips. I usually shoot off of sticks, but for zero i was using a bean bag rear and bipod up front. Why do you think you have a different POI between the two? Angle difference from sticks to target or different pressure on the stock (free floating barrel shouldn't show a difference I would have thought?) 

I have some splatter targets got and the wraith mount fitted. I was able to bore sight onto an orange clay at 35yrds, not far off where i want to be for the MPBR zero. Bore sighted profile 1 for the 17gn, profile 2 for the 20gn. Hoping to get a run out tomorrow evening and check zero with a few rounds. Hopefully the bore sighting will get me on paper somewhat close to the target and then some fine tuning. Should be looking for 0.9" high at 100yrds. 

I must try the POI between the sticks and bipod and see if there are any differences, I can always save 4 profiles as I only have 1 rifle.  

Ryan

[Weihrauch17]

40 minutes ago, RyanMc said:

Hi Murph,

Thanks for the tips. I usually shoot off of sticks, but for zero i was using a bean bag rear and bipod up front. Why do you think you have a different POI between the two? Angle difference from sticks to target or different pressure on the stock (free floating barrel shouldn't show a difference I would have thought?) 

I have some splatter targets got and the wraith mount fitted. I was able to bore sight onto an orange clay at 35yrds, not far off where i want to be for the MPBR zero. Bore sighted profile 1 for the 17gn, profile 2 for the 20gn. Hoping to get a run out tomorrow evening and check zero with a few rounds. Hopefully the bore sighting will get me on paper somewhat close to the target and then some fine tuning. Should be looking for 0.9" high at 100yrds. 

I must try the POI between the sticks and bipod and see if there are any differences, I can always save 4 profiles as I only have 1 rifle.  

Ryan

You can get differing POI with a bipod rested on a soft or hard surface, if I zero from a bonnet I put a folded towel on the bonnet to take away any 'bipod bounce'.

[Sprucey]

Black Marker Pen.. 

Take a shot, then take a walk. Put a Black ring around your bullet hole and then you should be able to see it clearly when you get back to your shooting position. 

Works for me. 

[RyanMc]

3 hours ago, Sprucey said:

Black Marker Pen.. 

Take a shot, then take a walk. Put a Black ring around your bullet hole and then you should be able to see it clearly when you get back to your shooting position. 

Works for me. 

Thanks Sprucey, that was what I had been doing. I resorted last time ot sticking a stray ear of oats from the stubble or a stick pointing to or level with the hole as a guide to zero too. As said above at 100yrds the 17hmr even with the splash/shoot n c targets is still small.

Ready to go after work and get it sighted in, hopefully this evening I'll have 'er licked!! Definitely a night and day difference (pun intended) in the Wraith mount compared to the generic one I had on. 

Ryan

[RyanMc]

Got 30 mins this evening. No wind conditions decent light but not blazing which helped. Previously bore sighted at 35yrds at home.

Zeroed in the 20gn at 43yrds initially, Elevation good, 1" left. Adjusted and confirmed, edge of centre. Moved to 100yrd target approx 1/2" high and left, adjusted windage only as at 100yrds I want approx 0.9" high (43/129MPBR 2" target) confirmed 3 shots on each target and happy! Same for the 17gn for a (37/137yrd MPBR 2" target). added pictures, I think i doubled one on the 17gn confirmation shots no other sign of the shot and couldn't have been that far off paper, other groups were tight enough for what i can do and need.

Took an opportune magpie that came in for a nose, out the window of the L200, approx 70yrds, down and dead!

Thanks for all the help, suggestions and getting information out there hopefully someone else can pick up on. This is my first year on a rifle and a lot to learn!

Top right is a double I reckon.

Edited August 23, 2022 by RyanMc