What country

[Jaymo]

9 hours ago, Bigbob said:

My argument would be what percentage did those useless mp's etc give themselves surely the nurses deserve the same 

They received 2.7% from April. 
So there you go strikers!

[12gauge82]

On 15/12/2022 at 20:37, Lsto said:

Good luck to them, I hope they get a big pay rise. It's easy to criticize but with inflation at 10+%, mortgages going up by about 250+ a month, rent by the same if not more, gas and electric, food and everything else plus Mr Kahns extended ulez so everyone outside central London who drives an old banger because that's all they can afford now has to find thousands to get a compliant car on top of all the above...

It's nearly 2023 and we have people in full time work relying on food banks to get by... What is wrong with asking for enough to get by? I'd love for an MP to get by doing a nurses job on nurses money. Why do we have 16+ hour waits in a&e? It's because you can earn more stacking shelves in Tesco than training for 3 years to be a nurse.

I know it's not all black and white but no one wants to strike, most people do simply because they can't make ends meet. I know cos I'm in the same boat.

I absolutely agree with your points and I think the vast majority would also agree, the problem is people are looking at it from their personal perspectives.

I totally agree that people with unions should be demanding more pay, the problem is, there are many workers, often even worse off and who work just as hard who are also deserving of a pay rise, but don't have a union and can't effectively strike, they are now not just unable to afford to live but due to strike action of people better off or in the same position as them, can't get to work, aren't getting the deliverys, are worried their health and loved ones will be put at risk, ect, ect. These people affected are always going to struggle to support strikes. 

I've been saying for a long time, long before the inflation rise, we need a colossal shift in conditions for the working masses and I don't mean in a labour style communist fashion, but for far too long, the very wealthy have been filling their pockets with wealth earnt from the sweat of hard working people, when times are good they cash in, like the behaviour that led to the 2008 crash, the tax payer (the working masses) were then left to pay for the fallout (still no where near payed off), during that near 10 year recession, the rich got 30% richer, while everyone else became vastly poorer and the same will happen again. If it continues at this rate at some point it simply won't pay for many to go to work any more and then who will pay the taxes. 

Im not clever enough to know the answer to that problem other than we need a giant shift in how the system works, as to be fair to the very wealthy, they're just playing the game via the rules available to them, the parameters of the game need changing. However I can guarantee strike action by unions will not help the vast majority of workers and won't change the system. 

[dead eye alan]

12 hours ago, Jaymo said:

They received 2.7% from April. 
So there you go strikers!

2.7% of £80,000 + £2160,    2.7% 0f £24,000 = £648 !

[Newbie to this]

11 minutes ago, dead eye alan said:

2.7% of £80,000 + £2160,    2.7% 0f £24,000 = £648 !

Don't see your point, it's still 2.7%

[dead eye alan]

4 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Don't see your point, it's still 2.7%

You can buy a lot of Champaign with 2 grand, but you can not buy much Gas & electric with £648. 

[Jaymo]

6 minutes ago, dead eye alan said:

2.7% of £80,000 + £2160,    2.7% 0f £24,000 = £648 !

And!!!! Your using the lower starting salary.

The average UK nursing salary as of Oct 2022 was around £34000. Still less than an MP. But if you wish for an MP’s salary, then get yourself into Politics and aim to be one. But even we’re that to be the case, your chances of becoming an MP are extremely slim. What is it, 650 in the whole Country.

Now. Enter the nursing profession ( that you chose to enter) and progress over time, you may possibly end up on Band 9. Then after five years your on £109475. 
2.7% rise for them exceeds your figure for the MP’s pay rise, so should they not then get it too? 
Suppose you apply a 19.7% pay rise across the board. That top band nurse is now gaining an additional amount almost as much as the lowest grade is receiving annually. Still fair and necessary? 

 

 

[dead eye alan]

2 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

And!!!! Your using the lower starting salary.

The average UK nursing salary as of Oct 2022 was around £34000. Still less than an MP. But if you wish for an MP’s salary, then get yourself into Politics and aim to be one. But even we’re that to be the case, your chances of becoming an MP are extremely slim. What is it, 650 in the whole Country.

Now. Enter the nursing profession ( that you chose to enter) and progress over time, you may possibly end up on Band 9. Then after five years your on £109475. 
2.7% rise for them exceeds your figure for the MP’s pay rise, so should they not then get it too? 
Suppose you apply a 19.7% pay rise across the board. That top band nurse is now gaining an additional amount almost as much as the lowest grade is receiving annually. Still fair and necessary? 

 

 

I'm trying to point out that % increases across the board are unfair to the lower paid, A fairer system would be to increase the lower bands only.

[Jaymo]

9 minutes ago, dead eye alan said:

You can buy a lot of Champaign with 2 grand, but you can not buy much Gas & electric with £648. 

So, what about ancillary staff who without, the hospitals would cease to function ( cleaners aren’t on NHS contracts afaik). They aren’t striking, but are they not equally deserving?

Every pay rise in what ever sector, has to be paid for somehow. 
Whether it be by much higher taxes ( remember the top 1% of earners pay a disproportionate amount in comparison), or by increasing the goods or services of that industry. 
It’s no good having a pay rise of 20% if gobbled up with increasing prices. 
 

Maybe what’s needed is some other solution. Discounting increased pricing from supply and demand arising from Covid ( little bit of Brexit chucked in too) the it’s  Energy ( motor and household) that seems to be at the forefront of the increase in inflation. 
How do we tackle that one? Force supplier and providers to fix the levels of  pricing. Get them to flood the market, which will drive the prices down ( stabilise Ukraine obviously) or allow what people seem to be adverse too. 
Fracking, Wind turbines inshore aswell as off shore and nuclear reactor power. 
The catch is applying a price cap on these companies would probably discourage further generation investment. So how do we do it? Balance and compromise but it will take balls. Just like scrapping the NHS and starting again with a new more efficient model. Political suicide, but it is ultimately the only pathway and who knows, with a super efficient NHS, we could possible pay nurses more! 
 

11 minutes ago, dead eye alan said:

I'm trying to point out that % increases across the board are unfair to the lower paid, A fairer system would be to increase the lower bands only.

Then there are shouts of unfairness which leads to discontent among the ranks. The one who earned a thousand less than another colleague, now earns more. Someone is bound to be aggrieved. 
Pretty soon you have divisions within the very workforce that you’re trying to promote harmony in. 

[Yellow Bear]

2 hours ago, dead eye alan said:

A fairer system would be to increase the lower bands only.

And then you wold get the unions striking to maintain differentials like they did back in the 1970s, again politically motivated. 

[12gauge82]

10 hours ago, Jaymo said:

So, what about ancillary staff who without, the hospitals would cease to function ( cleaners aren’t on NHS contracts afaik). They aren’t striking, but are they not equally deserving?

Every pay rise in what ever sector, has to be paid for somehow. 
Whether it be by much higher taxes ( remember the top 1% of earners pay a disproportionate amount in comparison), or by increasing the goods or services of that industry. 
It’s no good having a pay rise of 20% if gobbled up with increasing prices. 
 

Maybe what’s needed is some other solution. Discounting increased pricing from supply and demand arising from Covid ( little bit of Brexit chucked in too) the it’s  Energy ( motor and household) that seems to be at the forefront of the increase in inflation. 
How do we tackle that one? Force supplier and providers to fix the levels of  pricing. Get them to flood the market, which will drive the prices down ( stabilise Ukraine obviously) or allow what people seem to be adverse too. 
Fracking, Wind turbines inshore aswell as off shore and nuclear reactor power. 
The catch is applying a price cap on these companies would probably discourage further generation investment. So how do we do it? Balance and compromise but it will take balls. Just like scrapping the NHS and starting again with a new more efficient model. Political suicide, but it is ultimately the only pathway and who knows, with a super efficient NHS, we could possible pay nurses more! 
 

Then there are shouts of unfairness which leads to discontent among the ranks. The one who earned a thousand less than another colleague, now earns more. Someone is bound to be aggrieved. 
Pretty soon you have divisions within the very workforce that you’re trying to promote harmony in. 

Alot of sense spoken there. 

[Gordon R]

Quote

 

The unions wind the workers up by persistently telling them they deserve a huge pay increase. Within a short time they have created a sense of grievance and the workers start feeling they are entitled to it and are willing to go on strike to get it.

Classic left wing tactic, create a problem where there wasn't one before.

 

Left wing idiots, brainwashing the masses.

[Vince Green]

9 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Left wing idiots, brainwashing the masses.

Out to cause maximum trouble