Information required

[Rim Fire]

On 07/01/2023 at 19:07, oowee said:

A fi rearm certifi cate is required to purchase such ammunition.

you have put that a firearm cert is needed not SGC 

[oowee]

30 minutes ago, Rim Fire said:

you have put that a firearm cert is needed not SGC 

Read the post. 

[enfieldspares]

On 07/01/2023 at 19:07, oowee said:

I would find someone to help you out. Alternatively if your defending crops it's possible to use a shotgun. 

Section 7 of the Deer Act On any cultivated land, pasture or enclosed woodland, deer may be shot during the close season and a shotgun can be used in certain circumstances [see below] in order to prevent damage. This action may be taken by the occupier of the land in person and with his written permission by: Any member of the occupier’s household normally resident on the land; Any person in ordinary service of the occupier of the land; Any person having the right to take or kill deer on the land; Any person acting with written authority of a person having that right. Subject to that person having: Reasonable grounds for believing that deer of the same species were causing or had caused damage to crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber or any other form of property on the land and; believing further damage was likely to be caused and was likely to be serious; The action was necessary to prevent any such damage. If a shotgun is to be used, the following conditions apply It must be not smaller than a 12 bore; AAA shot ONLY may be used, or A single non-spherical projectile weighing not less than 22.68 grammes (350 grains). A fi rearm certifi cate is required to purchase such ammunition. Note that the above describes a defence. Should a prosecution be brought the defendant would be expected to prove that they had acted accordingly

This. You got there before me.

[enfieldspares]

It is my belief that the "estate rifle" exemption will not benefit the OP as the law states that

The ‘Estate Rifle Exemption’ allows a person who is over the age of 17 without a certificate to borrow a rifle from the occupier of a private premises and use it on those premises in the presence of either the occupier or the occupier’s servant as per s16(1) of the Act.

As it is the OP that is the occupier. Not the person who they are asking to borrow the rifle from.

https://www.knights-solicitors.co.uk/uploads/HJREOlzX/160429-NeveraBorroweroraLenderbe-KtBSum16-KnightsLegal.pdf

Edited January 9, 2023 by enfieldspares

[wymberley]

27 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

It is my belief that the "estate rifle" exemption will not benefit the OP as the law states that

The ‘Estate Rifle Exemption’ allows a person who is over the age of 17 without a certificate to borrow a rifle from the occupier of a private premises and use it on those premises in the presence of either the occupier or the occupier’s servant as per s16(1) of the Act.

As it is the OP that is the occupier. Not the person who they are asking to borrow the rifle from.

https://www.knights-solicitors.co.uk/uploads/HJREOlzX/160429-NeveraBorroweroraLenderbe-KtBSum16-KnightsLegal.pdf

Have I missed something or is the quoted bit either an assumption or possibly that you are privy to other info'.

I would be inclined to go with the help suggestion either way.  Using a shotgun, one could possibly be the target for someone with an agenda which may well come from an unexpected direction and the ground rules under which one would be operating are complex and it would be all too easy to fall foul of them.

 

[CharlieT]

29 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

It is my belief that the "estate rifle" exemption will not benefit the OP as the law states that

The ‘Estate Rifle Exemption’ allows a person who is over the age of 17 without a certificate to borrow a rifle from the occupier of a private premises and use it on those premises in the presence of either the occupier or the occupier’s servant as per s16(1) of the Act.

As it is the OP that is the occupier. Not the person who they are asking to borrow the rifle from.

https://www.knights-solicitors.co.uk/uploads/HJREOlzX/160429-NeveraBorroweroraLenderbe-KtBSum16-KnightsLegal.pdf

The rules have changed since 2016, when that article was written. 

The estate rifle rules now state, as per 7.6 in the Firearms Guidance,

iii. the lender either has the legal right to allow others to enter the premises for hunting animals or shooting game or vermin; or,  

iv. has written authorisation from such a person to lend the rifle or shot gun on the premises. 

[Rim Fire]

It's no wonder Big Teddy ask the question we can't agree and we all own Firearms imo its best to ask someone with the right caliber and get the landowners permission to shoot them  

[alan123shooting]

On 09/01/2023 at 15:43, Rim Fire said:

It's no wonder Big Teddy ask the question we can't agree and we all own Firearms imo its best to ask someone with the right caliber and get the landowners permission to shoot them  

👍

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

At my range I can shoot any other gun from another member providing I have that cal' on my ticket. On open days I can shoot anything so can visitors without an fac as long as they are supervised on the stand with the gun owner. Out in the field the rules are more ar less the same, shoot another person's gun while in their presence if you have that cal' on your ticket. Obviously things go unseen but at my range the police are members & no one knows who they are so rules are very strictly enforced.

[CharlieT]

56 minutes ago, THEINVISIBLESCARECROW said:

At my range I can shoot any other gun from another member providing I have that cal' on my ticket. On open days I can shoot anything so can visitors without an fac as long as they are supervised on the stand with the gun owner. Out in the field the rules are more ar less the same, shoot another person's gun while in their presence if you have that cal' on your ticket. Obviously things go unseen but at my range the police are members & no one knows who they are so rules are very strictly enforced.

Where did you dream that one up from, certainly not from the "Estate Rifle "rules.

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

18 minutes ago, CharlieT said:

Where did you dream that one up from, certainly not from the "Estate Rifle "rules.

It's in B&W written rules of the range. As for out in the field the law is more forgiving if you have no fac than if you do. Some of what I say might be a personal theory from what I've heard & open for debate, some are written rules that are not open for debate. I've been out with a few guys & happy for me to shoot their rifles if I have that cal' on my ticket & politely refused if not so that is what I'm staying with. Shooting estates & deer stalking is something I know nothing off but have seen guns supplied for stalking with attached T&C's. Confusion does arise due to wording such as "land owner" thrown into the question of what is lawfull

[CharlieT]

As you say, your personal theory. However, that is not what the law actually says regarding the estate rifle exemption. It matters not a jot what firearms you have on your FAC, when you use someone else's rifle under the ER rules it is their FAC conditions that apply. You can shoot any caliber they may own providing they are legally entitled to permit you to shoot on the land.

[wymberley]

Ah, Utopia.

[Centrepin]

An extract:

For the few pennies this book costs, everyone shoushould have a copy.

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

On 24/01/2023 at 12:10, CharlieT said:

As you say, your personal theory. However, that is not what the law actually says regarding the estate rifle exemption. It matters not a jot what firearms you have on your FAC, when you use someone else's rifle under the ER rules it is their FAC conditions that apply. You can shoot any caliber they may own providing they are legally entitled to permit you to shoot on the land.

I stand corrected, every day is a school day. I'd rather be wrong & learn than remain ignorant of correct facts so thanks for educating me. Much apprieciated.

[CharlieT]

8 hours ago, THEINVISIBLESCARECROW said:

I stand corrected, every day is a school day. I'd rather be wrong & learn than remain ignorant of correct facts so thanks for educating me. Much appreciated.

Once again this demonstrates just how useful this forum is. We all learn from it.