Wagner

[ordnance]

Putin lost the war in the first few weeks, he was to dumb and arrogant to pull back and make the best of a bad situation. Now he and Russia could pay the price.

 

Edited June 24, 2023 by ordnance

[ordnance]

At least Prigozhin told it as it is regarding the reasons for the invasion Russian casualties and the BS from Russia and Putin, BS Russian propaganda that plenty on this forum were happy to swallow and repeat 🙄

Edited June 24, 2023 by ordnance

[Rewulf]

33 minutes ago, Mungler said:

They’ve just downed a military transport place (drawing troops back from the front line to Moscow) and are now an 8 hour drive from Moscow.

This is a ‘wow’ moment and unfolding in real time.

Despite the spin and being reminded of historic Ukrainian losses etc, this is seriously damaging if not disastrous for a large chunk of Moscow.

No doubt Putin the master tactician already has a plan for this though, right? 

You could well be right , and civil war is just around the corner, as Wagners  25000 troops with no Russian military support or logistics 'march' on Moscow.

Or , as I said, there are other possibilities , one of which is the removal, in disgrace, of Minister of defence and head of Russian army.
Wagners contract being out , money being owed to them , or the 'friendly' fire that set it all off ?
Both sides propaganda machines are in full effect, and the truth is likely somewhat removed from what we are being fed at the moment.

The facts are , Wagner are incapable of taking or threatening Moscow, they are incapable of of operating without direct Russian military support, fuel, ammunition, food.
Their 'enemy' if anyone , is the head of military and defence, not Putin or Russia.
The road to Moscow maybe is 8 hours away, but thats an awful long way to go while being carpet bombed or nuked, its just not feasible. They dont have the men , equipment , or will to do it anyway.
Rostov was occupied without a shot being fired, because there was no need.
As much as we would all like to see a resolution to all this, I dont believe this is the thing that brings it all together.
Try this for another perspective, as Denys tends to get a bit over excited when 'something' happens.

 

15 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Putin lost the war in the first few weeks, he was to dumb and arrogant to pull back and make the best of a bad situation. Now he and Russia could pay the price.

Has not Ukraine paid the price , now and in the future ?
Russia could well end up badly damaged, but its recovery will be far swifter than Ukraines unfortunately.

[islandgun]

Reuters report Russian helicopters firing on wagner group 

Edited June 24, 2023 by islandgun

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

You could well be right , and civil war is just around the corner, as Wagners  25000 troops with no Russian military support or logistics 'march' on Moscow.

Or , as I said, there are other possibilities , one of which is the removal, in disgrace, of Minister of defence and head of Russian army.
Wagners contract being out , money being owed to them , or the 'friendly' fire that set it all off ?
Both sides propaganda machines are in full effect, and the truth is likely somewhat removed from what we are being fed at the moment.

The facts are , Wagner are incapable of taking or threatening Moscow, they are incapable of of operating without direct Russian military support, fuel, ammunition, food.
Their 'enemy' if anyone , is the head of military and defence, not Putin or Russia.
The road to Moscow maybe is 8 hours away, but thats an awful long way to go while being carpet bombed or nuked, its just not feasible. They dont have the men , equipment , or will to do it anyway.
Rostov was occupied without a shot being fired, because there was no need.
As much as we would all like to see a resolution to all this, I dont believe this is the thing that brings it all together.
Try this for another perspective, as Denys tends to get a bit over excited when 'something' happens.

 

Has not Ukraine paid the price , now and in the future ?
Russia could well end up badly damaged, but its recovery will be far swifter than Ukraines unfortunately.

They currently control and own the source of the Russian army. They will have all the resources they need. There is a deal to be done or one hell of a punch up. 

Said before Putin lost this once he started it.

Ps who's side are the other mercenary army's going to choose? 

[Mungler]

2 hours ago, ordnance said:

At least Prigozhin told it as it is regarding the reasons for the invasion Russian casualties and the BS from Russia and Putin, BS Russian propaganda that plenty on this forum were happy to swallow and repeat 🙄

We don’t agree on much but we absolutely agree on this.

[Mungler]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

You could well be right , and civil war is just around the corner, as Wagners  25000 troops with no Russian military support or logistics 'march' on Moscow.

Or , as I said, there are other possibilities , one of which is the removal, in disgrace, of Minister of defence and head of Russian army.
Wagners contract being out , money being owed to them , or the 'friendly' fire that set it all off ?
Both sides propaganda machines are in full effect, and the truth is likely somewhat removed from what we are being fed at the moment.

The facts are , Wagner are incapable of taking or threatening Moscow, they are incapable of of operating without direct Russian military support, fuel, ammunition, food.
Their 'enemy' if anyone , is the head of military and defence, not Putin or Russia.
The road to Moscow maybe is 8 hours away, but thats an awful long way to go while being carpet bombed or nuked, its just not feasible. They dont have the men , equipment , or will to do it anyway.
Rostov was occupied without a shot being fired, because there was no need.
As much as we would all like to see a resolution to all this, I dont believe this is the thing that brings it all together.
Try this for another perspective, as Denys tends to get a bit over excited when 'something' happens.

 

Has not Ukraine paid the price , now and in the future ?
Russia could well end up badly damaged, but its recovery will be far swifter than Ukraines unfortunately.

That’s all very interesting, but, the bottom line is it’s embarrassing and seriously damaging and worrying for Moscow.

And it’s early days, who knows what will spin off and out of this or will happen next. 

We’re about to find out how much support each side does or doesn’t have.

As for Ukraine paying the price? What, the price of resisting a Russian invasion? It’s their choice and if they want to keep fighting, that’s their choice and yes there’s Western support.

I can’t but help think that round about now Putin might be wondering how life would have been had he decided not to invade Ukraine.

And as has been said, the best bit is Prigozhin calling out the reasons for the invasion - turns out it wasn’t about Nazis or NATO; go figure, who knew?

 

[Mungler]

Al Jazeera has the footage of Rostov-on-Don taken without a shot and the military HQ taken.

I wonder what goodies they’ve now helped themselves to? 

[Rewulf]

36 minutes ago, oowee said:

They currently control and own the source of the Russian army. They will have all the resources they need.

I cant see this as being true, they have constantly complained about equipment and ammo shortages.
Theyve carried what they have out of Ukraine over to Rostov, and I cant see any official resupply anytime soon.

 

36 minutes ago, oowee said:

Ps who's side are the other mercenary army's going to choose? 

I would imagine , whoever is paying them.

Again , I dont see this being a 'real' situation, it seems contrived, staged, why ? Ive no idea, but using the words coup or rebellion, gives it far more weight than it justifies.

1 minute ago, Mungler said:

That’s all very interesting, but, the bottom line is it’s embarrassing and seriously damaging and worrying for Moscow.

And it’s early days, who knows what will spin off and out of this or will happen next. 

On the face of it , thats how it appears, and it might well be Wagner has gone rogue.
But look at the consequences, this isnt going to topple Putin, end the war or finish Russia.
If its real , Prigozhin is dead, and Wagner , whatever is left of them , will be absorbed into Russian armed forces.

Like the video I posted concluded, this gives Putin the power to go for full mobilisation, martial law ect.

2 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Al Jazeera has the footage of Rostov-on-Don taken without a shot and the military HQ taken.

I wonder what goodies they’ve now helped themselves to? 

Maybe thats the deal , get rid of Shoigu ect, and elevate Wagner into a bigger , more official force of arms ?
I dont think theres an argument that they have not been effective in Ukraine.

As an aside , there isnt a great deal of comment coming from western news and government sources, which I find strange.

[Mungler]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

I cant see this as being true, they have constantly complained about equipment and ammo shortages.
Theyve carried what they have out of Ukraine over to Rostov, and I cant see any official resupply anytime soon.

 

I would imagine , whoever is paying them.

Again , I dont see this being a 'real' situation, it seems contrived, staged, why ? Ive no idea, but using the words coup or rebellion, gives it far more weight than it justifies.

On the face of it , thats how it appears, and it might well be Wagner has gone rogue.
But look at the consequences, this isnt going to topple Putin, end the war or finish Russia.
If its real , Prigozhin is dead, and Wagner , whatever is left of them , will be absorbed into Russian armed forces.

Like the video I posted concluded, this gives Putin the power to go for full mobilisation, martial law ect.

Maybe thats the deal , get rid of Shoigu ect, and elevate Wagner into a bigger , more official force of arms ?
I dont think theres an argument that they have not been effective in Ukraine.

As an aside , there isnt a great deal of comment coming from western news and government sources, which I find strange.

It’s a huge amount of men, equipment and resource coming off the front lines (both Wagner and RU forces). 

It’s a disaster for Moscow. There is no wider spin or cunning plan right now. You can’t whip that amount of men and kit off the front line for a cunning wheeze. 

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, Mungler said:

It’s a huge amount of men, equipment and resource coming off the front lines (both Wagner and RU forces). 

It’s a disaster for Moscow. There is no wider spin or cunning plan right now. You can’t whip that amount of men and kit off the front line for a cunning wheeze. 

They were already off the front line.
When they were allegedly attacked by their own side they were in Luhansk , 50 miles away from the front, and the rest of them are laid up near Belgorod.

[Mungler]

7 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

They were already off the front line.
When they were allegedly attacked by their own side they were in Luhansk , 50 miles away from the front, and the rest of them are laid up near Belgorod.

 

 

There’s loads of on-line conspiracy chatter amongst Putin supporters - it appears to be a ‘go to’ response to ameliorate against each massive balls up; ah but it’s a plan / a psy-op.

The one fronted is that this is a step to general mobilisation. But that’s not going to happen; if there’s a plan with Putin everyone gets to blame a few generals, put them up against a wall and work backwards from that. That’s the door opener to a withdrawal / de-escalation.

If Putin gets toppled why would Prigozhin then double down and push on in Ukraine? Again, he gets to blame everyone else, withdraw troops, make friends with the West and be a hero that fixed the mess.

We’ll see soon enough. 

The writing was on the wall for Prigozhin and there’s a good chance the artillery shelling of Wagner troops by Russian forces was made up to give him the excuse he needed.

Ive watched the footage of the Wagner lot in action; they appear to know what they are doing and I for one wouldn’t want to fight them. We’re about to see how many Russians agree with that. 
.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Mungler

[Rewulf]

10 minutes ago, Mungler said:

If Putin gets toppled why would Prigozhin then double down and push on in Ukraine? Again, he gets to blame everyone else, withdraw troops, make friends with the West and be a hero that fixed the mess.

Possible scenario, I always wondered if he could be 'bought' by the west, but again there are always windows for people to fall out of.

Heres another scenario.
It is a psy op, misinformation, as I said , theres a lot of Wagners near Belgorod, and there are reports that the force in Rostov is moving towards Moscow through Voronezh, a detour through Kursk tonight , puts them in Belgorod, and just over the border is Kharkiv.
While the UKR are concentrating on their southern and eastern counteroffensive , the north is not too strong....
Do I get the order of Lenin if Im right ?  🏅

 

[Mungler]

32 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Possible scenario, I always wondered if he could be 'bought' by the west, but again there are always windows for people to fall out of.

Heres another scenario.
It is a psy op, misinformation, as I said , theres a lot of Wagners near Belgorod, and there are reports that the force in Rostov is moving towards Moscow through Voronezh, a detour through Kursk tonight , puts them in Belgorod, and just over the border is Kharkiv.
While the UKR are concentrating on their southern and eastern counteroffensive , the north is not too strong....
Do I get the order of Lenin if Im right ?  🏅

 

You can make any crazy nonsense up and call it a conspiracy theory 😆

It’s gone too far. Russian helicopter gunships are attacking the columns on the M4.

[Rewulf]

10 minutes ago, Mungler said:

It’s gone too far. Russian helicopter gunships are attacking the columns on the M4.

Jeezuz ! That escalated quickly , Ive got friends in Bristol, hope theyre OK 

[islandgun]

16 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Jeezuz ! That escalated quickly , Ive got friends in Bristol, hope theyre OK 

Where are the stop oil protesters when you need them

[Rewulf]

7 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Where are the stop oil protesters when you need them

I know right , but this isnt funny , Im a dacha down, and my red army pension is looking a bit sick....
Vlad said he was going to make me captain of the Moskva too, not sure why he laughed when he said that 

[Vince Green]

It's all about money. Everything in Russia is about money and power.

 

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Vince Green said:

It's all about money. Everything in Russia is about money and power.

 

It is virtually everywhere isnt it ?

[Vince Green]

13 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Where are the stop oil protesters when you need them

Yes that's a point, if Putin goes so does their secret funding

Trump must be worried too

Just now, Rewulf said:

It is virtually everywhere isnt it ?

Yes but in the west they don't still kill you and burn your house to get it

That went out in the middle ages

[Rewulf]

26 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Yes but in the west they don't still kill you and burn your house to get it

That went out in the middle ages

Ive heard it still happens in Norfolk.

[ditchman]

18 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Ive heard it still happens in Norfolk.

only on wednesdays now thank god............(something to do with early closing)

[ditchman]

keep an eye on richie sunak and "out to lunch Bailey".............they might sneak in another rate rise ...using the war in Russia as cover..................sneaky ********'s

[Vince Green]

Putin has fled Moscow according to multiple sources

[12gauge82]

58 minutes ago, ditchman said:

keep an eye on richie sunak and "out to lunch Bailey".............they might sneak in another rate rise ...using the war in Russia as cover..................sneaky ********'s

Theoretically, while it will still hit the UK, any further inflation due to russian instability should hit many European nations worse.