Rewulf Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 20 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: Putin requested his friend Lukashenko to take in Prigozhin (and his Wagner men) to open a second front from Belarus? The flip side to this , whether it happens or not, means Ukraine neede to move forces from the southern (active) front, up north to counter this plausible threat. All they need to do is mass on the border, and much war materiel and men will be called upon from elsewhere to defend Ukraine. Ukraine has the men , but does it have the equipment ? They have , by their own admission, lost a lot of the NATO supplied stuff already down south. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 13 minutes ago, Rewulf said: The flip side to this , whether it happens or not, means Ukraine needs to move forces from the southern (active) front, up north to counter this plausible threat. I'm not sure it will happen now. There are some reports saying that the Wagner men are now under the 'normal' Russian military control. Firstly, I can't see them liking that much after all their former leader said about the Russian military leadership - and like him or not, Prigozhin seemed to get loyalty (possibly by very brutal means, but he got it). Secondly the same reports said they were returning to 'where they left off' in Ukraine. At present, I don't think anyone knows who is reporting to whom. Sergei Shoigoi (the one Prighozhin was trying to have sacked) appears to have been visiting bases in person, so looks like he is still firmly in post and Prighozhin exiled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 30 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: At present, I don't think anyone knows who is reporting to whom. Sergei Shoigoi (the one Prighozhin was trying to have sacked) appears to have been visiting bases in person, so looks like he is still firmly in post and Prighozhin exiled? I still think its misdirection, Wagner still exists, and Prig is still in charge, as long as he keeps paying them , and the Russian state keeps paying him. There are so many reports and counter reports, I find it difficult to believe there isnt some plan amidst the manufactured chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 https://countrysquire.co.uk/2023/06/26/an-armchair-general-writes/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 46 minutes ago, Rewulf said: There are so many reports and counter reports, I find it difficult to believe there isnt some plan amidst the manufactured chaos. Indeed. I'm not convinced the chaos isn't genuine. Putin was reputed to be the 'Master Tactician and Strategist'. Perhaps he was - maybe he even still is, but is he getting fed facts ....... or just what he wants to hear? If his generals etc. who give him bad news keep falling out of windows, down staircases, or choking on their tea - then they won't give you the bad news - so you have a false picture. This was supposed to be over in days ....... 18 months ago. Regardless of the actual figures - he has lost a lot of men and equipment - and a massive loss of face, and gained little - in 18 months. Prighozhin's men were possibly his most effective, but if they are now sidelined and their leader is 'deposed' - will they still want to fight? or will they 'melt away'? And yet the 'Master Plan' if there is one remains firmly concealed - which might indicate there isn't really one at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 IMO He was got to, he and a lot of his soldiers have family and friends living in Russia, step down or they are going to start falling out windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 Just now, ordnance said: IMO He was got to, he and a lot of his soldiers have family and friends living in Russia, step down or they are going to start falling out windows. Apparently Wagner will disband from 1st July. This from Prighozhin "Wagner leader Yevgeny Prigozhin has just posted an 11-minute audio message where he says no-one agreed to sign a contract with the defence ministry and that his mercenary firm was bound to cease existence on 1 July." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-66006142 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said: Apparently Wagner will disband from 1st July. This from Prighozhin 'Prigozhin said the aim of the march was to prevent the destruction of Wagner, and it would seem that this has been achieved. Wagner offices have announced the resumption of recruitment, and the company's activities in Africa and other parts of the world are continuing.' Im not sure disbandment is on the cards, definitely a restructure, where someone else becomes front man. Like you say , Wagner have been effective, why Im not sure, I doubt the Russians would want to lose this card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Rewulf said: 'Prigozhin said the aim of the march was to prevent the destruction of Wagner, and it would seem that this has been achieved. Wagner offices have announced the resumption of recruitment, and the company's activities in Africa and other parts of the world are continuing.' Im not sure disbandment is on the cards, definitely a restructure, where someone else becomes front man. Like you say , Wagner have been effective, why Im not sure, I doubt the Russians would want to lose this card. The whole situation is so confused with contradictory reports that I don't think anyone knows what is actually going on! It seems Shoigu also has 'strong connections' to a competing "Private Military Company"; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_(company) Edited June 26, 2023 by JohnfromUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 The words of Churchill springs to mind "Russia is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, Inside an enigma" There's so many bluffs, lies, propaganda, deciept and secrecy in Russia, it's very hard to know what's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 13 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: The words of Churchill springs to mind "Russia is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, Inside an enigma" There's so many bluffs, lies, propaganda, deciept and secrecy in Russia, it's very hard to know what's going on. aint that the truth..............i bet there is alot of sneaky ...brutal...happenings/schemes....going on out of eyesight.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 Prig had moscow on a plate. He must have had a great offer. Some say ''step back whilst Putin bows out' . Shotgu will be out and Wagner man will be in'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, oowee said: Prig had moscow on a plate. He must have had a great offer. Some say ''step back whilst Putin bows out' . Shotgu will be out and Wagner man will be in'. just reported..........Putin has gone back on his word ...and has been reported that wagner people will be charged....and decisions to neautrilise have been taken.......... facinating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 6 minutes ago, ditchman said: just reported..........Putin has gone back on his word ...and has been reported that wagner people will be charged....and decisions to neautrilise have been taken.......... facinating Wow is that Rusky media? It's keeping me busy whilst I try to dodge all the hippie types on my camp site 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 7 minutes ago, oowee said: Wow is that Rusky media? It's keeping me busy whilst I try to dodge all the hippie types on my camp site 😁 According to BBC news Putin said "I thank Wagner soldiers and commanders who did not shed blood - you can sign a contract with the Ministry of Defence, or move to Belarus," Source - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-66006142 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 26, 2023 Report Share Posted June 26, 2023 58 minutes ago, ditchman said: just reported..........Putin has gone back on his word ...and has been reported that wagner people will be charged....and decisions to neautrilise have been taken.......... facinating Putin lying and going back on his word, I find that hard to believe 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted June 27, 2023 Report Share Posted June 27, 2023 12 hours ago, oowee said: I try to dodge all the hippie types on my camp site 😁 Stop looking in the mirror Grant!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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