My thoughts on gun fitting .

[Stonepark]

Had an hour at clay ground yesterday with semi auto and a hit rate of 84 out of a 100 with buttoning myself with no delay on release (despite quite a few offering to button for me and politely declined).

 

I find it the best way to simulate with clays what happens in the field, and most of the misses were due to incorrect mounting.

[JohnfromUK]

I was taught that the muzzles are following up the 'smoke trail' as the gun comes up to the shoulder, eyes on the target ..........

But it's easier to say than do!

[.357shooter]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

Anyone who pre-mounts can basically only shoot at clays, as that system is useless in the field. 
We all have to start somewhere, but............
Many times I have seen people who have usually had a few lessons at clays come out to try some sort of field shooting, and they expect to be able to pre-mount a gun when a shot presents itself. Obviously, it doesn’t work. (In fact, it can often be dangerous).
The poor beginner often only realises at that point that he has been taught to hit a clay, but has not actually been taught to shoot.

just aswell i only shoot clays and have no interest in shooting anthing else with my shotguns.only shoot pidgeons,magpies,squirrels and rabbits with airguns.

[Gunman]

12 hours ago, London Best said:

Anyone who pre-mounts can basically only shoot at clays, as that system is useless in the field. 
We all have to start somewhere, but............
Many times I have seen people who have usually had a few lessons at clays come out to try some sort of field shooting, and they expect to be able to pre-mount a gun when a shot presents itself. Obviously, it doesn’t work. (In fact, it can often be dangerous).
The poor beginner often only realises at that point that he has been taught to hit a clay, but has not actually been taught to shoot.

Always said you need to get lessons from a person who shoots and teaches the kind of shooting you want to do . Is it not often the case that game shooters can adapt to clays better than clay shooters to game ?Just watching the difference between the two waiting for the " bird "is amazing  . One gun up tensed the other gun down relaxed . 

 

[London Best]

43 minutes ago, Gunman said:

Is it not often the case that game shooters can adapt to clays better than clay shooters to game ?Just watching the difference between the two waiting for the " bird "is amazing  . One gun up tensed the other gun down relaxed . 

 

You say that, and it may generally be true, but as a game shot I find it not necessarily more difficult but rather unnatural on the odd occasions I shoot clays.

Edited August 15, 2023 by London Best

[Scully]

All of that which follows is stating the obvious, but nevertheless, is relevant to this thread.
Starting gun up is not only fine for some ( not all ) trap targets, but totally necessary and advantageous for others. 
The thing with trap targets is that you not only know where they’re coming from and going to, but when. 
However, starting gun up ( as in the shoulder ready to shoot ) can not only impede your vision but can also kill your swing. 

The big difference between clays and live quarry is that the former deviates little from its course and is always slowing down. 
The best advice I can give to anyone struggling to ‘get it consistently right’ without writing an essay, is to buy the book ‘Positive Shooting’ by he must not be mentioned on this forum. It really is one of the best books to teach yourself everything you need to know about all the fundamentals of shooting. 

[HantsRob]

Volemort wrote a book on shooting? I mean..... he struggled to get a "kill" on Harry more than once, I am not sure how much I should trust him....

(sorry for the abstract reference)

Gunmount is an interesting part of my shooting journey, being a relative newcomer. I am consciously going gun down wherever possible, however I don't believe it's simply gun up or down. I have tried a traditional full gun down, and have been warned I am too low and I can't mount fast enough for insanely fast birds or ones that only pop up for a brief moment. I do believe there is the equivolent of "half gun up/down", where you are holding a few inches from the top of the shoulder with the barrels low enough to see everything. Also maybe a mount in the shoulder but face off the gun for speed.

I may describe it poorly there, but I don't think it's as simple as up or down, and there are so many variations depending on clay discipline (I haven't any game experience to comment from that side, but I am sure in some respects 'there's gun down, and then there's gun down').

 

Oh and I will look up that book Scully, regardless of playful comment. Thanks for a recommendation.

[Fellside]

Interesting comments here. Most newbies start shooting gun up - as in fully mounted. It’s a reasonable starting point for beginner clays, just to get them hitting and smiling, so vital. At some stage though, they need to be encouraged to do the ‘star wars’ thing: “let the force be with you”, “let you’re instincts take over”. I say that slightly tongue in cheek - but only slightly. Instincts, re hand eye coordination, can only take over when the gun mount (from down) and the swing becomes second nature. Gun up isn’t therefore wrong but merely part of learning (and helpful for  DTL disciplines). It’s hard for me to remember my first steps, but I did shoot gun up. I recall struggling on skeet that way. When I finally learned to mount and swing as one flowing movement, I shot my first 25 straight. Not that I’ve done it frequently (?!). There you are - my two penneth of a ramble. 

Re gun fit. This is really tricky, as the newbie has to gain a consistent practiced gun mount before fitting can be assessed. Only then can an expert coach / fitter match them with their required measurements. If they’re lucky they will transpire to be Mr or Mrs average and their first gun is ideal. If not, they will have a gun to part ex’ or have some stock work done. Personally I am a long way from  the ‘Mr average’ dimensions, being tall. I therefore nearly always need more drop and cast. A great fitting gun with nice balance though…… is a marvellous instrument! 

[HantsRob]

21 hours ago, Fellside said:

 “let the force be with you”,

I sometimes launch a clay with one of my newer friends when he's not ready, and he mounts and kills almost 100% of the time. There's a lot to be said about overthinking!

[Fellside]

1 hour ago, HantsRob said:

I sometimes launch a clay with one of my newer friends when he's not ready, and he mounts and kills almost 100% of the time. There's a lot to be said about overthinking!

Yes - I have many pigeon shots like that. They liberate our instincts. I think some of the best clay shots learn to harness these instincts and shoot with a very natural relaxed style. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

On 16/08/2023 at 15:53, Scully said:

All of that which follows is stating the obvious, but nevertheless, is relevant to this thread.
Starting gun up is not only fine for some ( not all ) trap targets, but totally necessary and advantageous for others. 
The thing with trap targets is that you not only know where they’re coming from and going to, but when. 
However, starting gun up ( as in the shoulder ready to shoot ) can not only impede your vision but can also kill your swing. 

The big difference between clays and live quarry is that the former deviates little from its course and is always slowing down. 
The best advice I can give to anyone struggling to ‘get it consistently right’ without writing an essay, is to buy the book ‘Positive Shooting’ by he must not be mentioned on this forum. It really is one of the best books to teach yourself everything you need to know about all the fundamentals of shooting. 

Hello, after over 50 years I've never been what we call a good shot and I've met many champions more so on clay pigeon shooting and competitions not that I do any these days, my last time out did not bode well so I bought this book 🤔🙄😁