Net Zero

[12gauge82]

10 hours ago, Mungler said:

Whilst writing that long post I fell down the rabbit hole of what EVs are coming out of China.

Apart from some really daft car names (I’m guessing literal translations from Mandarin don’t scan in the West) the Seagull and the Dolphin look like cracking cars.

If I could get the Seagull for £8k on the road  I’d be down the car dealers tomorrow- 250 miles range and a 0-60 of 4.9 seconds; that is absolutely perfect for my daily commute which is a stream of traffic lights (2 lanes to 3 lanes back to 2 lanes) and roundabouts on A roads. A nippy EV commuter car brand new on the road for £8k and currently Ulez and congestion charge free  (not unlike the BMW i3 but with a better spec and 1/3 of the price).

We’ll never see one here or rather by the time it arrives here with all the protectionist trade tariffs slapped on it will be more expensive than its nearest European rival.

However, the change is coming…

From what I read 0-60mph was approximately 13s, impressive for the price none the less.

[old man]

On 25/09/2023 at 05:34, Robden said:

I haven't read all this thread, but I assume that Net Zero refers to the money in our pockets.

If, and it's a big IF, we do go all eiectric, the government will lose a s$$t load in fuel duty. Where from, and how do you think they will get that money back? Answers on a postcard to....................

They will simply take it from your bank account at will, cash will have been long gone by then? 

If you are a naughty, bank account and smart meter turned off?

 

[discobob]

If I recall correctly- the Ora Cat was around 15k in China, ends up being 30k in UK

[oowee]

44 minutes ago, discobob said:

If I recall correctly- the Ora Cat was around 15k in China, ends up being 30k in UK

Why would anyone that cares about any sort of freedom support an oppressor nation like China when they have a choice. 

[Scully]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

Why would anyone that cares about any sort of freedom support an oppressor nation like China when they have a choice. 

The UK’s Net Zero policy is partly dependant on supporting Chinese industry. 

[12gauge82]

9 minutes ago, oowee said:

Why would anyone that cares about any sort of freedom support an oppressor nation like China when they have a choice. 

Its not about supporting China, but taking advantage of good value. It's done on vast scale already and is only oppressing the working masses. 

I believe we should manufacture whatever we can within the uk and turn our back on globalism and the EU, but since we haven't why not buy from China and elsewhere, instead of paying artificially inflated EU prices?

[oowee]

14 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Its not about supporting China, but taking advantage of good value. It's done on vast scale already and is only oppressing the working masses. 

I believe we should manufacture whatever we can within the uk and turn our back on globalism and the EU, but since we haven't why not buy from China and elsewhere, instead of paying artificially inflated EU prices?

We often have little choice in purchasing but in the case of cars we do. I would not sprinkle on them if they were on fire. Why hasten our own demise supporting this regime? 

[12gauge82]

20 minutes ago, oowee said:

We often have little choice in purchasing but in the case of cars we do. I would not sprinkle on them if they were on fire. Why hasten our own demise supporting this regime? 

I agree we need to cut our reliance on China, but we already buy huge amounts from them, it seems the only reason we don't with cars is not to upset our European 'friends', it seems they don't do much for us and until we do away with globalism we may as well take the benefits, at the moment, we're getting the worst of both worlds.

[Mungler]

5 hours ago, oowee said:

Why would anyone that cares about any sort of freedom support an oppressor nation like China when they have a choice. 

You will find that the phone in your hand (as too more than 50% of the contents of your house) was manufactured in China.

I get the point - avoid Chinese purchases of big ticket items like cars? Well where are most of the constituent parts to any car manufactured? Indeed, if we’re talking EVs then the big ticket battery component and advanced tech currently comes from China. And if we’re talking about EVs for the masses and with range capability, then there’s nothing else on offer from any other content that fits the bill. 

6 hours ago, discobob said:

If I recall correctly- the Ora Cat was around 15k in China, ends up being 30k in UK

Yeah we’ll never see Chinese EV car prices here because of the tariffs. 

But those cars and those prices show what’s actually out there and at what real cost when looking at a viable EV solution for the masses.

Indeed, have a look at this: the top 5 EVs in China.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/ev/advice/chinese-electric-cars-top-five-electric-vehicles-from-china-82842#:~:text=Wuling Hongguang Mini EV,king of electric city cars.&text=The Wuling Hongguang Mini EV,best-selling fully electric car.
 

What is jaw dropping is the best selling   EV model just in China selling 400,000 units in one year (2021). Bearing in mind that Tesla in the same year sold a total of 900,000 cars globally and across all car model lines / variants / models. 

The Wuling EV costs less than £4k on the road, looks like an invalid carriage but sold in huge numbers to the masses because beggars aren’t choosers out there.

Yes it’s an ugly hateful car, yes the  roads in China are slow and clogged with congestion and no I don’t want one - but it’s where we’re all heading and it’s that or walking / cycling….

Edited September 27, 2023 by Mungler

[discobob]

10 hours ago, oowee said:

Why would anyone that cares about any sort of freedom support an oppressor nation like China when they have a choice. 

I wasn't/don't - however I do like to look at multiple things - I don't just discount things immediately because of a narrow mind. I use knowledge to come to my beliefs - not based on dogma...

As an aside I drive a 10 year old Jag that I have owned since new and have done 160k miles in it....I went British (with Indian owners  )

I am now starting to look at a new(er) car....

[Penelope]

On 25/09/2023 at 20:23, Mungler said:

I had someone come down from Doncaster to Essex in one go in a Tesla 3 long range with no drama or stress at all. 

The next generation of EV out of China is what the European car markets are frightened of : 700 km range, fast charging and for a fraction of the EVs prices in Europe.  China has a 10 year head start on EV tech and the like for cost comparables are keeping the Euro manufacturers awake at night.

It’s not about right now, it’s about what’s coming over the near horizon.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/08/22/catl-unveils-ev-battery-enabling-a-400-km-driving-range-on-a-10-minute-charge/#:~:text=CATL announced a new fast,range on a full charge.

and 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas-ev-makers-face-cost-consumer-challenges-conquer-europe-2023-08-18/#:~:text=The average price of an,as cheaply as at home.

 

But what we as consumers will see is the protectionist EU put massive tariffs on Chinese imports in order to stop us from buying them.

The ‘average’ brand new on the road price of an EV in China is £28k. That’s average - so imagine what’s less than / more than £28k.

Check out the ‘Seagull’ 190-250 mile range, £8,000 price tag (in China) and a 0-60 of 4.9 seconds 😆  Now that’s a cheap EV everyone will want.

https://news.yahoo.com/chinese-company-releasing-ultra-cheap-104500309.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvLnVrLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAK1Abd3t8BkgaSQ-FGPO8wNYVAIZ-aulBcGM0BFiQRnWlF1rDLHdDhKbVVExw7oDw04Fwm3pgUPLiTivzRn8XvpHIdlAyM0W2VfczOGxYAIg138Nf1KI7nRz0KzqLc8gJuvkVqT86mAV9gI68QPYP4qZ0WZTDK58s2InQbasMx-y

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Seagull#:~:text=All three models are powered,km%2Fh of 13 seconds.

In Europe we get far to het up on what we see happening in Europe and perhaps even in the states - guess where the most cars and the most modern cars are all being built and sold right now?

We’ve all seen this, right?

.

Edit

Have a look at the review of this car - the Dolphin. Interesting to see what the reviewer says in the last minute…

 

With names like Seagull and Dolphin, I surprised they ain't eating them.

[Rewulf]

39 minutes ago, Penelope said:

With names like Seagull and Dolphin, I surprised they ain't eating them.

Surely they wouldnt do that.....