North Wales Police and Crime Panel - "Gun laws: Restrictions call after firearm ownership data"

[Conor O'Gorman]

BASC has secured a meeting with Andy Dunbobbin PCC for North Wales Police at the end of this month in relation to statements about firearms licensing made at the 25 September 2023 meeting of the North Wales Police and Crime Panel; which were subsequently reported on by the BBC as “Gun laws: Restrictions call after firearm ownership data”. BASC's Head of Firearms Martin Parker will attend the meeting to explain the use of lawfully owned firearms and the legal framework that authorises their possession.

During the panel meeting Cllr Chris Bithell made a number of statements about firearms licensing and when responding to the councillor’s comments about the number of firearms held on each certificate, the PCC said that he would see if there was anything that could be done nationally in that regard.

To watch a video of the 25 September panel discussion (from 3 minutes onwards) click the link below.

 

This discussion at the 25 September panel meeting was prompted by a report containing answers to questions about firearms licensing that had been submitted to the PCC office in June 2023.

Click the link below for the firearms report from page 11:

https://modgovpub-eng.secure.conwy.gov.uk/documents/g9873/Public%20reports%20pack%20Monday%2025-Sep-2023%2014.00%20North%20Wales%20Police%20and%20Crime%20Panel.pdf?T=10

Edited October 4, 2023 by Conor O'Gorman

[discobob]

Please do correct them Conor - that whole segment was full of mistruth's and possibly lies (to suit a narrative) and nobody corrected Cllr Bithell over his quoting of the Portsmouth incident - a number of weapons, and the fact that he had them was down to the failure of the local police to follow the guidelines that are already in place - and the officer wasn't much better

Bob

[Conor O'Gorman]

11 minutes ago, discobob said:

Please do correct them Conor - that whole segment was full of mistruth's and possibly lies (to suit a narrative) and nobody corrected Cllr Bithell over his quoting of the Portsmouth incident - a number of weapons, and the fact that he had them was down to the failure of the local police to follow the guidelines that are already in place - and the officer wasn't much better

Bob

We are following up in a number of other ways also to correct the record - updates will follow.

[simcgunner]

[discobob]

On 04/10/2023 at 16:18, Conor O'Gorman said:

We are following up in a number of other ways also to correct the record - updates will follow.

Any update??

[Conor O'Gorman]

16 hours ago, discobob said:

Any update??

There will be an update next week.

[Scully]

On 05/10/2023 at 01:26, simcgunner said:

You don’t know how fortunate you are. 

[Conor O'Gorman]

There is an update in current issue of Shooting Times, with it being confirmed that there was no foundation for misreporting in the media insinuating that the PCC was lobbying for changes in firearms law. Click link below to read the article online.

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/tackling-local-politics-146624/

That is not the end of the matter - we are following up ahead of next Crime Panel meeting on 11 December - where Cllr Bithell will likely be in attendance.

[old'un]

Well according to cllr Bithell I could have an arsenal of weapons and the police would not have clue how many guns I have, just goes to show the man as not got a clue of what he’s talking about, frighting to think that people like him could have so much influence on peoples lives, think he needs a few emails. christopher.bithell@flintshire.gov.uk

 

[Scully]

7 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

There is an update in current issue of Shooting Times, with it being confirmed that there was no foundation for misreporting in the media insinuating that the PCC was lobbying for changes in firearms law. Click link below to read the article online.

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/tackling-local-politics-146624/

That is not the end of the matter - we are following up ahead of next Crime Panel meeting on 11 December - where Cllr Bithell will likely be in attendance.

The most annoying aspect of matters such as these, ( as always ) is that the MSM picks up on the attention grabbing aspects and makes it a nationwide headline ( ‘ gun owners may own more guns than police know about’…..,quotes are mine as an example ) but when the actual facts are made known they get a couple of paragraphs in a shooting mag’ which is only read by a few shooters who already know it was *******!. 
Why oh why does it seem we are always on a hiding to nothing? 

[Dave at kelton]

12 hours ago, Scully said:

The most annoying aspect of matters such as these, ( as always ) is that the MSM picks up on the attention grabbing aspects and makes it a nationwide headline ( ‘ gun owners may own more guns than police know about’…..,quotes are mine as an example ) but when the actual facts are made known they get a couple of paragraphs in a shooting mag’ which is only read by a few shooters who already know it was *******!. 
Why oh why does it seem we are always on a hiding to nothing? 

The trouble is Editors control content and if facts don’t grab headlines they don’t get in the publication. It’s called Rabble Rousing!

[Conor O'Gorman]

On 17/11/2023 at 20:43, Scully said:

The most annoying aspect of matters such as these, ( as always ) is that the MSM picks up on the attention grabbing aspects and makes it a nationwide headline ( ‘ gun owners may own more guns than police know about’…..,quotes are mine as an example ) but when the actual facts are made known they get a couple of paragraphs in a shooting mag’ which is only read by a few shooters who already know it was *******!. 
Why oh why does it seem we are always on a hiding to nothing? 

The story is not over yet - updates to follow in due course.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

The story is not over yet - updates to follow in due course.

Good. Well done. 

[Penelope]

On 17/11/2023 at 20:43, Scully said:

The most annoying aspect of matters such as these, ( as always ) is that the MSM picks up on the attention grabbing aspects and makes it a nationwide headline ( ‘ gun owners may own more guns than police know about’…..,quotes are mine as an example ) but when the actual facts are made known they get a couple of paragraphs in a shooting mag’ which is only read by a few shooters who already know it was *******!. 
Why oh why does it seem we are always on a hiding to nothing? 

Simple, doesn't fit the narrative.

[discobob]

On 17/11/2023 at 14:35, old'un said:

Well according to cllr Bithell I could have an arsenal of weapons and the police would not have clue how many guns I have, just goes to show the man as not got a clue of what he’s talking about, frighting to think that people like him could have so much influence on peoples lives, think he needs a few emails. christopher.bithell@flintshire.gov.uk

 

Very nearly sent an email to Mr Bithell about his views but thought differently after a minute, as I am in Flintshire/North Wales, no matter how polite I was I would be on edge expecting a knock at the door from NWP ☹️

[London Best]

9 hours ago, discobob said:

Very nearly sent an email to Mr Bithell about his views but thought differently after a minute, as I am in Flintshire/North Wales, no matter how polite I was I would be on edge expecting a knock at the door from NWP ☹️

What have you got to hide?

[Tedward]

I think Discobob just meant that he would find it difficult to control his emotions - and quite rightly so.

[armsid]

I agree with Tedward but some people will react to this Cncll. and not think of the reaction from plod 

[discobob]

On 26/11/2023 at 08:08, London Best said:

What have you got to hide?

Nothing

On 26/11/2023 at 10:25, Tedward said:

I think Discobob just meant that he would find it difficult to control his emotions - and quite rightly so.

Not even this - all the Cllr would have to do is say he felt threatened/harassed-no matter how polite I was - and NWP would be knocking on my door before you could say “boo”

[discobob]

@Conor O'Gorman have you received any responses in relation to this from either NWP or Cllr Bithell??

[Conor O'Gorman]

4 hours ago, discobob said:

@Conor O'Gorman have you received any responses in relation to this from either NWP or Cllr Bithell??

Yes from NWP, no from Cllr Bithell.

https://basc.org.uk/basc-addresses-members-concerns-with-north-wales-pcc/

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/tackling-local-politics-146624/

The crime panel meeting planned for 11 December was cancelled. The panel met yesterday, Cllr Bithell gave apologies.

Conwy Local Democracy : Agenda for North Wales Police and Crime Panel on Monday, 29 January 2024, 2.00 pm

[discobob]

Thanks for the update on this - unable to see the specific detail on the last link - but that is more me I think

However, it still stands that the NWP were there and did not correct Cllr Bithell in his statements at the time - and indeed seemed to support him - they are the supposed experts. The damage has been done with the headlines that were published by the press 😞

Not having a go at you at all - again - thanks

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

20 minutes ago, discobob said:

Thanks for the update on this - unable to see the specific detail on the last link - but that is more me I think

However, it still stands that the NWP were there and did not correct Cllr Bithell in his statements at the time - and indeed seemed to support him - they are the supposed experts. The damage has been done with the headlines that were published by the press 😞

Not having a go at you at all - again - thanks

 

Thanks, that council webpage is not the easiest to use. Essentially the draft minutes of the September 2023 meeting were included as paperwork and the pertinent para is QUESTIONS TO THE POLICE AND CRIME COMMISSIONER A number of questions had been submitted by the Chair of the Police and Crime Panel together with Councillor Chris Bithell in relation to firearms certificates. The response to the questions are attached as an appendix to these minutes. In line with recent events by the Metropolitan Police, the Chair asked whether any Police Officers had handed back their firearms licenses. In response, the Police and Crime Commissioner advised he was not aware of any. Councillor Chris Bithell felt that gun owners should have a license for every weapon owned, as it was possible that individuals could have a number of weapons with one license. In addition, the reasons for revoking licenses was acknowledged.

I can't find the appendix referred to nor do I know if there was any mention of what was said in the September meeting at the January meeting. I hear what you are saying about the damage being done by what was reported in September regardless of what is corrected thereafter.