Zero tolerance

[Rewulf]

19 minutes ago, oowee said:

Typical of ageing democracies our rich are getting richer our poor poorer.

So, if its 'typical' , the entire western world based on such democracies are all in the same boat...?

20 minutes ago, oowee said:

Our poor are 20% behind their euro counterparts.

WHICH euro counterparts are we behind, all of them, or a handful, that weve been behind for decades ?
Are we behind the Eastern euro 'democracies' Greece , Baltic states ect ?
You might like to think we are, but we most definitely are not, these very states are right now rebelling against EU migrant quotas, as their 'uneducated' citizens do not want more migrants, when they cant support or employ their own.

20 minutes ago, oowee said:

The poor cannoy get a doctors appointment or health treatment, or housing because the resources are kept in the grasping hands of the rich. We need a fundamental shift in the distribution of wealth.

So the 'rich' contol the NHS ,housing ect ?
We have the problem down to EU and 3rd world migration, 10 million extra souls to house , employ and medicate, many who contribute NOTHING to the economy that has to take up the slack and pay for them

20 minutes ago, oowee said:

Don't bring out carp about migrants taking up the slack.

Thats the Guardian talking right there.
Nothing to do with migrants ?, Because they all work and pay for their social care through all those taxes they pay 😆

At least admit, uncontrolled migration is part of the problem, or all these doctors and engineers STILL going to be paying our pensions over the coming decades ?

[old man]

52 minutes ago, oowee said:

https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2023/nov/27/uk-spends-more-financing-inequality-in-favour-of-rich-than-rest-of-europe-report-finds

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/25/in-britain-the-rich-are-richer-but-the-poor-far-poorer-than-in-europe

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0143622815000351

In Summary-

Typical of ageing democracies our rich are getting richer our poor poorer. Our poor are 20% behind their euro counterparts. The poor cannoy get a doctors appointment or health treatment, or housing because the resources are kept in the grasping hands of the rich. We need a fundamental shift in the distribution of wealth. Don't bring out carp about migrants taking up the slack. It's simply that our society benefits the richest 1 % at the expense of the rest. 😁

Can't fault your analysis. The only problem is that what ever bunch a vote is placed for the results will be the same? Boom and Bust? To hell with the little sheeple. The only difference being the way in which they achieve it? 🤔

[oowee]

30 minutes ago, old man said:

Can't fault your analysis. The only problem is that what ever bunch a vote is placed for the results will be the same? Boom and Bust? To hell with the little sheeple. The only difference being the way in which they achieve it? 🤔

What gets me the most is that there is no route map out of this spiral of decline. We love to pour scorn on any proposal so no one wants to put anything on the table. As a result that decline is accelerating. Starmer said at the weekend that what marked out leaders like Blair and Thatcher was that they got things done. 

That's what we need back at the top table. Someone that has a plan for difference, even if we don't like it.

 

[12gauge82]

Come on Oowee, this isn't bashing migrants, it's simply honest working people worried about the impact of allowing millions of low skilled, unvetted individuals into the country and the changes it will cause.

Are you disagreeing that it will cause change?

1 minute ago, oowee said:

What gets me the most is that there is no route map out of this spiral of decline. We love to pour scorn on any proposal so no one wants to put anything on the table. As a result that decline is accelerating. Starmer said at the weekend that what marked out leaders like Blair and Thatcher was that they got things done. 

That's what we need back at the top table. Someone that has a plan for difference, even if we don't like it.

 

Agreed, we need someone like Nigel Farage to effect real change.

[oowee]

I get that but it's small beer in the grand scheme of things. The impact on our failing services is significant but the real concern is our failing services that simply cannot cope with our changing population structure. We have everything predicated on a population structure that we no longer have. Too many old people or not enough younger workers to support them. Something has to give. 

 

[Rewulf]

38 minutes ago, oowee said:

What gets me the most is that there is no route map out of this spiral of decline. We love to pour scorn on any proposal so no one wants to put anything on the table. As a result that decline is accelerating. Starmer said at the weekend that what marked out leaders like Blair and Thatcher was that they got things done. 

That's what we need back at the top table. Someone that has a plan for difference, even if we don't like it.

 

OK , talking of pouring scorn on proposals, like Rwanda for instance, what does Sir Kier have in mind for controlling the tide of migrants coming in ?

Because Ive never heard anyone from labour talk about this ?

29 minutes ago, oowee said:

I get that but it's small beer in the grand scheme of things. The impact on our failing services is significant but the real concern is our failing services that simply cannot cope with our changing population structure. We have everything predicated on a population structure that we no longer have. Too many old people or not enough younger workers to support them. Something has to give. 

 

Our 'changing population structure' as you so eloquently put it, is down to this 'small beer' of uncontrolled migration started by , thats right , Blairs government, who most certainly 'got things done'
By changing our demographic that much, we can no longer support our population with essential services, but at least we now have 'rich' diversity, and made Cherie and Tony some dosh to retire somewhere nice to , not the UK though, as its pretty much turning into a wasteland.

[oowee]

10 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

OK , talking of pouring scorn on proposals, like Rwanda for instance, what does Sir Kier have in mind for controlling the tide of migrants coming in ?

Because Ive never heard anyone from labour talk about this ?

Our 'changing population structure' as you so eloquently put it, is down to this 'small beer' of uncontrolled migration started by , thats right , Blairs government, who most certainly 'got things done'
By changing our demographic that much, we can no longer support our population with essential services, but at least we now have 'rich' diversity, and made Cherie and Tony some dosh to retire somewhere nice to , not the UK though, as its pretty much turning into a wasteland.

So how would you propose to deal with the countries top heavy population? 

 

[Rewulf]

18 minutes ago, oowee said:

So how would you propose to deal with the countries top heavy population? 

 

I would invite as many 3rd world refugees as possible, use the royal navy and RNLI to bring them over from France, maybe get some flights organised from their home countries, once here, put them up in taxpayer funded hotels and give them money to roam among the communities to do as they wish.

They will be that grateful of the welcome they receive, and the benefits of being in a tolerant free country, they will be only be too happy to work their behinds off to pay all the taxes necessary to feed , house and look after the old and infirm racists that opposed their entry.

Eventually they will accept their new lives as British citizens, adopt our culture and values, while keeping the good parts of their own, and forgetting the bad bits, like homophobia, child marriage, subjugation of women and FGM.

The UK will become a Nirvana of tolerance, diversity and peace, and everyone will live happily ever after.

What about your proposal ?

[oowee]

17 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I would invite as many 3rd world refugees as possible, use the royal navy and RNLI to bring them over from France, maybe get some flights organised from their home countries, once here, put them up in taxpayer funded hotels and give them money to roam among the communities to do as they wish.

They will be that grateful of the welcome they receive, and the benefits of being in a tolerant free country, they will be only be too happy to work their behinds off to pay all the taxes necessary to feed , house and look after the old and infirm racists that opposed their entry.

Eventually they will accept their new lives as British citizens, adopt our culture and values, while keeping the good parts of their own, and forgetting the bad bits, like homophobia, child marriage, subjugation of women and FGM.

The UK will become a Nirvana of tolerance, diversity and peace, and everyone will live happily ever after.

What about your proposal ?

Again no plan. 

 I would rejoin the EU the extra workers will support services. The extra 4% gdp would be a bonus. Set up an immigration process. You wont agree with it but it's a plan and whatever way you want to witter on about it, it's far better than no plan. 

[owain]

49 minutes ago, oowee said:

Again no plan. 

 I would rejoin the EU the extra workers will support services. The extra 4% gdp would be a bonus. Set up an immigration process. You wont agree with it but it's a plan and whatever way you want to witter on about it, it's far better than no plan. 

Totally agree with that. When we were part of the EU immigration was a collective issue, it was all of our problem. Now we are out we still expect the countries we wanted nothing to do with to bend over backwards to help us. Can’t have it all ways. 

[Good shot?]

I would add to your plan that we introduce a short term designer virus to take out only the  elderly and infirm burdens on society and confiscate their homes to house all these illegal immigrants and their dependants.

All the male immigrants of age would  be  enrolled in the EU army to guard our shores etc. The rest could be put into forced labour in whatever role is needed to help pay for the care  of their dependants.

Just a thought but , obviously in line with how I view your plan.

[oowee]

46 minutes ago, Good shot? said:

I would add to your plan that we introduce a short term designer virus to take out only the  elderly and infirm burdens on society and confiscate their homes to house all these illegal immigrants and their dependants.

All the male immigrants of age would  be  enrolled in the EU army to guard our shores etc. The rest could be put into forced labour in whatever role is needed to help pay for the care  of their dependants.

Just a thought but , obviously in line with how I view your plan.

I hope the virus starts at 70+ 🤣

However you have no alternative suggestions. Step up to the plate tell us your ideas. ....... Thought not and there in lies the problem.

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

I would rejoin the EU the extra workers will support services

😂

Worked well last time didn't it. 

1 hour ago, owain said:

Totally agree with that. When we were part of the EU immigration was a collective issue

😂

Yes they collectively sent as many of the undesirable ones our way as possible. 

32 minutes ago, oowee said:

you have no alternative suggestions. Step up to the plate tell us your ideas. ....... Thought not and there in lies the problem

Yours lacked err... Imagination. 

'rejoin the EU, problem solved' 

😂

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Again no plan. 

 I would rejoin the EU the extra workers will support services. The extra 4% gdp would be a bonus. Set up an immigration process. You wont agree with it but it's a plan and whatever way you want to witter on about it, it's far better than no plan. 

Ummmm I think we tried that already 🤔

1 hour ago, owain said:

Totally agree with that. When we were part of the EU immigration was a collective issue, it was all of our problem. Now we are out we still expect the countries we wanted nothing to do with to bend over backwards to help us. Can’t have it all ways. 

We don't need their help, we simply need to grow a backbone and drop them immediately back to France, it's simple, effective and cheap, but they won't do it because they're afraid of the hurty words our European friends will call us.

39 minutes ago, oowee said:

I hope the virus starts at 70+ 🤣

However you have no alternative suggestions. Step up to the plate tell us your ideas. ....... Thought not and there in lies the problem.

I do agree with you in that the uks problems are far bigger than illegal migration, however it certainly has its own problems.

[Good shot?]

I also agree that the Failure to tackle illegal immigration is only a fraction of our problems, but it is symptomatic of a wide range of failures which  begs the question of who is running the country and to what end. Globalists and civil servants in the main  I suspect, with little national pride and a wish for self enrichment.

One solution to illegal boat crossings could be gather a flotilla of small boats and return said illegals to French waters. Similar has been done before under much worse conditions. That would be a start.

If we could only gather enough small boat owners to join, but sadly in this respect those days have long gone.

 

 

[Mungler]

15 hours ago, Rewulf said:

The 'real' world is what people perceive it to be, if a man or women who works in a factory on minimum wage, cant get a doctors appointment or dentist, their children are in overcrowded classrooms because the local authority has spent all its money on housing migrants and interpreters, while giving them the first choice of available social housing, while at the same time leaving homeless to sleep in doorways, and letting the roads crumble away to something resembling the surface of the moon, then they may , unsurprisingly feel that something isnt quite right, and the SJWs at the Guardian spouting their left wing rhetoric isnt going to help these poor 'uneducated' people.

All it does is make them pick a side.

We arent falling behind Europe.
The left try to keep painting this picture of the UK being the sick man, its not remotely accurate.

We are still a strong nation, maybe not as good as some , but compare us to 80 % of Europe, we are still strong economically.

We arent, show some stats that show this in any way shape or form.

Perhaps because we feel that the issue of migration directly affect these important things.
Or are we just imagining that they do , and the fact that 700,000+ migrants every year has no effect whatsoever on them ?

This, in spades.

There are no lords and serfs anymore and the whole left and right of politics has lost meaning. 

The jealous and inadequate will always cry for socialism but they will remain in the minority as no one will want to make themselves poorer no matter how nobly it’s dressed up. 

I think and hope we are heading towards a new dawn of pragmatism - the battle is now the sane against the insane not left and right. 

I always thought that the conservatives should have introduced economics as a GCSE mandatory subject alongside maths and English to instil in the young the inescapable reality that everything but everything has to be paid for and that all resources are finite.

I know the enlightened view is that we’re all just global world travellers and should be free to pitch up anywhere - lofty ideology indeed but who as a tax payer is willing to pay for that in terms of direct cost (cash) and indirect cost (housing, education, health, infrastructure)?

It was the young in Holland waking up to the fact that there was a finite supply of jobs and housing stock in Holland, and which meant that uncontrolled mass immigration was their problem.

Where we are headed is insane. Uncontrolled mass immigration has not worked (continues to not work) and is an obvious form of Ponzi scheme.

Anyone remember what life was like before  Blair? Blair got in in 1997 and with policy time lag 1999 was the tipping point. Anyone think life got better or worse after 1999?

Lastly, anyone seen the economic data coming out of Germany? Germany is completely screwed and with that so is the EU.

My IFA said years ago that it would take over a decade to any benefit from leaving the EU, but there would be a benefit to getting out before the EU collapsed and as it has to aa a matter of simple physics and economics.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Mungler

[owain]

8 hours ago, Rewulf said:

 

😂

Yes they collectively sent as many of the undesirable ones our way as possible. 

 

So you’re saying illegal immigration has got got better since we left the EU?? 

8 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

We don't need their help, we simply need to grow a backbone and drop them immediately back to France, it's simple, effective and cheap, but they won't do it because they're afraid of the hurty words our European friends will call us.

If we don’t need their help, then why has illegal immigration got so much worse since we left? 

[Mungler]

40 minutes ago, owain said:

So you’re saying illegal immigration has got got better since we left the EU?? 

If we don’t need their help, then why has illegal immigration got so much worse since we left? 

Illegal immigration is off the chart throughout the whole of Europe.

Sweden, Holland, Italy, Greece, Ireland, France etc they’ve all had enough. This gives rise to populist nationalist parties which the media label far right, but whats wrong with doing something that’s popular with the indigenous population.

All politicians come from a narrow strata. Their towns and kids’ schools are unaffected by mass immigration and each party could do what it takes, but they don’t. Ask an Australian what needs to be done.

As for the constant rose tinted glasses about life in the EU; it’s funny, they hated us and we hated them for years and years but that gets washed away with the liberal media and the sands of time. Classically we as a nation didn’t understand the endemic corruption and couldn’t understand why we were the only country playing by the rules.

We are at the start of the end for Europe. If the German economy takes the battering that’s coming and the new Eastern Euro states keep doing what they’re doing… well it’s all coming apart at the seams. 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Mungler

[12gauge82]

49 minutes ago, owain said:

 

If we don’t need their help, then why has illegal immigration got so much worse since we left? 

The reason it's been getting worse the last few years is thir change of tactics, namely crossing in small boats, as that has been effective, more and more are going via that route.

Being in the EU had little impact for or against illegal immigration at the time we were members, leaving will however stop those legally in eu countrys from being able to walk into the UK, which is a whole other problem since many eu countries are eventually issuing passports to immigrants that arrived their illegally.

[owain]

We don’t need to be best friends with our neighbours in order to make things work.
It’s obviously just a massive coincidence that illegal immigration has gone through the roof since recent events. 

[Mungler]

3 minutes ago, owain said:

We don’t need to be best friends with our neighbours in order to make things work.
It’s obviously just a massive coincidence that illegal immigration has gone through the roof since recent events. 

And how has writing out a blank cheque to our friendly neighbour France ‘to stop the boats’ worked out for us?

Illegal immigration into Europe as a whole is off the chart right now, it’s not just us. However, the reason economic migrants plod on through Europe and risk the Chanel in a dinghy is our welfare state and the continued encouragement of useful idiots. 

Turn off the welfare state and it stops tomorrow. Leave the ECHR, seconder to Rwanda (or a 3rd party country) and it stops tomorrow.

The problem is not leaving Europe, it’s global migration coupled with  those in charge of us (left or right) just won’t do what needs to be done.

[12gauge82]

8 minutes ago, owain said:

We don’t need to be best friends with our neighbours in order to make things work.
It’s obviously just a massive coincidence that illegal immigration has gone through the roof since recent events. 

Go on then why has leaving the EU caused that?

[Yellow Bear]

5 hours ago, Good shot? said:

also agree that the Failure to tackle illegal immigration is only a fraction of our problems, but it is symptomatic of a wide range of failures which  begs the question of who is running the country and to what end. Globalists and civil servants in the main  I suspect, with little national pride and a wish for self enrichment

Exactly this, but perhaps less the globalist than some think.

[Rewulf]

3 hours ago, owain said:

So you’re saying illegal immigration has got got better since we left the EU

So you're saying they used to stop them ?

They gave us quotas how many we HAD to take , then turned a blind eye when 20 x more turned up, as they allowed them to freely travel undocumented through Europe! 

[owain]

4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Go on then why has leaving the EU caused that?

Perhaps because when you’re all in the same gang, you have a certain amount of accountability to other members. Where as when one member leaves the gang the other members aren’t obliged to play by the rules any longer.

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

So you're saying they used to stop them ?

They gave us quotas how many we HAD to take , then turned a blind eye when 20 x more turned up, as they allowed them to freely travel undocumented through Europe! 

You answer my question first, then I will answer yours 👍