Bioammo composting 2yrs on.

[Ferretlurcher1970]

I have been to basc AGM. It was truly awful. When John Dryden was pushed by a member he lent back his chair and stared at the ceiling with hands behind his head ! Basc has forgotten who pays there wages. I think that they are closet antis, looking to take down shoot from the inside.

[Old farrier]

9 hours ago, Konor said:

Not going anywhere then. I always used to favour paper cases but never failed to pick them up and take them home. Cartridge consumption was a lot lower then of course. Cartridges bought a couple of boxes at a time and the birds were wild. 

Still use paper cases with fibre wad 😊👍

[London Best]

Just now, Old farrier said:

Still use paper cases with fibre wad 😊👍

Proper chap.
Dash it all, Carruthers, we’re British!

[Old farrier]

6 minutes ago, Ferretlurcher1970 said:

I have been to basc AGM. It was truly awful. When John Dryden was pushed by a member he lent back his chair and stared at the ceiling with hands behind his head ! Basc has forgotten who pays there wages. I think that they are closet antis, looking to take down shoot from the inside.

Ohh that doesn’t sound so good 🙄

well done for attending 👍how was the lunch 🤔

[London Best]

10 minutes ago, Ferretlurcher1970 said:

I think that they are closet antis, looking to take down shoot from the inside.

I know, and have known, several people who work for BASC or serve on their committees. I have shot with some of them quite a lot in the past, one ex vice chairman for over fifty years. 
I can assure you that NONE of those people are antis.

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Terry2016 said:

Dear All, 

I am more than happy to host a team's call with you to discuss face to face.  Individually or as a group

Well , is this progress ?

We've gone from the offer of a phone call with Conor , to a team call with 'Terry' who may or may not work for BASC.

What exactly is wrong with discussing it on open forum, rather than trying to get everyone together on teams, or discussing it individually on teams ?

Then we get told we're hiding behind our keyboards !

It doesn't make any sense.

[Gordon R]

I had a PM from Conor asking if I am a member of BASC. It's a bit rich, he never answers a straight question, but expects others to do so. Absolute arrogance.

Conor O'Gorman. I will gladly answer your question when you start answering questions on the forum.

As for Terry2016 - perhaps he can explain why answers cannot be posted on this forum, but can be resolved by one of those magic phone calls.

[Konor]

1 hour ago, Old farrier said:

Still use paper cases with fibre wad 😊👍

I’m using up a whole load of gifted Winchester and Eley cartridges so haven’t bought game cartridges for some time ,just those for clays. Hull paper cased three crowns and Eley 2inch, Impax and Grand Prix paper cases were what I once used. Hoping to get some three crown paper cased cartridges for my 16 bore if such a thing is available.

[Old farrier]

Just now, Konor said:

I’m using up a whole load of gifted Winchester and Eley cartridges so haven’t bought game cartridges for some time ,just those for clays. Hull paper cased three crowns and Eley 2inch, Impax and Grand Prix paper cases were what I once used. Hoping to get some three crown paper cased cartridges for my 16 bore if such a thing is available.

Pity your so far away I’ve just given a thousand paper 16 bites away 😱sorry 

[Konor]

46 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I had a PM from Conor asking if I am a member of BASC. It's a bit rich, he never answers a straight question, but expects others to do so. Absolute arrogance.

Conor O'Gorman. I will gladly answer your question when you start answering questions on the forum.

As for Terry2016 - perhaps he can explain why answers cannot be posted on this forum, but can be resolved by one of those magic phone calls.

I had a pm too Gordon , I guess those are private but the bottom line was that I insisted he restricts contact to the forum so that he can be held accountable for any statements he makes. I guess Conor and Terry have the idea that the forum is an extension of their working environment and ideally to be used to stifle public debate of our relevant concerns by offering private communication rather than engaging in discussion on the forum. I think the purpose of a public forum is lost on them and they possibly see it as their private domain. They are just individual posters like everyone else on the forum after all is said and done and I think they greatly over estimate their support when it comes to the lead shot debate. We will see how BASC’s fight against further lead restrictions goes and the extent of their support for it from those who have given up completely on lead already.

[Konor]

15 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Pity your so far away I’ve just given a thousand paper 16 bites away 😱sorry 

A near miss ,not to worry though the hunt is half the fun. I don’t have much stock of 16 bore shells and as I only use the gun for walked up consumption is low. 16 bore paper cases will hopefully be what I use though. I had considered getting a dearer 16 but am now down sizing and only holding on to a few bits and bobs. Whoever owned my number 4 sixteen bore certainly looked after it and I get a lot of pleasure from that and an immaculate number 3 magnum so no more guns. I’ll now be able to afford decent socks and pants for a change 😄

[Konor]

3 hours ago, Terry2016 said:

Dear All, 

I am more than happy to host a team's call with you to discuss face to face.  Individually or as a group.

All you need to do is message with your details, and we can arrange, that way you do not have to travel etc, 

If you have genuine concerns and would like a conversation to discuss any points. 

I do not engage on here often and when i have i have tried to clarify concerns of people. 

So, if you have questions or concerns i will set up a meeting. 

Please let me know 

Best 

Terry 

Sorry Terry it’s a No from me. I enjoy an open forum and happy to accept flak from those that disagree with anything I post as I am aware shooters cover a broad spectrum. As long as our intent is in the interests of shooting as a whole I’m happy. Shooting politics ,hidden agendas and failure to be open and honest in posting I’m not so supportive of and definitely not happy with engaging in private conversations on topics which originate on a public forum.

[udderlyoffroad]

You could always upload the recording of your Teams chat to the forum, for us to review at our leisure?

Should be a healthy debate...

[Terry2016]

23 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Well , is this progress ?

We've gone from the offer of a phone call with Conor , to a team call with 'Terry' who may or may not work for BASC.

What exactly is wrong with discussing it on open forum, rather than trying to get everyone together on teams, or discussing it individually on teams ?

Then we get told we're hiding behind our keyboards !

It doesn't make any sense.

The purpose was to offer a meeting to address any concerns you or anyone else has.

I use this forum in a personal capacity and have done for near 10 years, I know many of the members, I have shot with them, purchased guns from them and sold cartridges to them along with far to much pigeon shooting gear !

I dip in and out as time allows its always been a good forum, so if you want to discuss anything my offer stands. 

Could you clarify are you a BASC member ?

21 hours ago, Konor said:

Sorry Terry it’s a No from me. I enjoy an open forum and happy to accept flak from those that disagree with anything I post as I am aware shooters cover a broad spectrum. As long as our intent is in the interests of shooting as a whole I’m happy. Shooting politics ,hidden agendas and failure to be open and honest in posting I’m not so supportive of and definitely not happy with engaging in private conversations on topics which originate on a public forum.

Konor, 

No problem, my offer remains should you change your mind. 

Could you clarify are you a BASC member ?

Edited May 20 by Terry2016

[Terry2016]

23 hours ago, Gordon R said:

I had a PM from Conor asking if I am a member of BASC. It's a bit rich, he never answers a straight question, but expects others to do so. Absolute arrogance.

Conor O'Gorman. I will gladly answer your question when you start answering questions on the forum.

As for Terry2016 - perhaps he can explain why answers cannot be posted on this forum, but can be resolved by one of those magic phone calls.

Hi Gordon, 

No magic calls offered, just a chat via a face to face call or meeting.  If you look at my response to Rewulf I use this forum in a personal capacity and dip in and out have done so for near 10 years. 

I am unsure what is "unanswered" however, I am pretty sure you can find it on the BASC website if needed and a teams call is not sufficient etc.

The offer remains. 

Could you clarify are you a BASC member ?

Edited May 20 by Terry2016

[Gordon R]

Terry2016 - I am astonished that you are unaware of what is "unanswered". Just about everything. The idea that the BASC website might contain the reasoning for proposing a phase out of lead, without consulting members, is bizarre. If it is actually on there, please point it out for me. 

I have no wish to have phone calls or meetings with BASC, as that just seems like avoiding the very forum where issues have been raised. That isn't how a forum works. You raise a matter in public - you answer in public.

The matter of my membership of BASC has been raised by yourself and Conor O'Gorman. Could you explain why I should give you an answer when I can't get an answer to a straight question, along with a number of other members?

[Old farrier]

51 minutes ago, Terry2016 said:

The purpose was to offer a meeting to address any concerns you or anyone else has.

I use this forum in a personal capacity and have done for near 10 years, I know many of the members, I have shot with them, purchased guns from them and sold cartridges to them along with far to much pigeon shooting gear !

I dip in and out as time allows its always been a good forum, so if you want to discuss anything my offer stands. 

Could you clarify are you a BASC member ?

Konor, 

No problem, my offer remains should you change your mind. 

Could you clarify are you a BASC member ?

Wasn’t aware that you needed to be a BASC member to be a member of PW 

I also can’t see being a member is relevant this is a open forum that Basc representatives post information on usually before the members get the email 

[Terry2016]

1 minute ago, Gordon R said:

Terry2016 - I am astonished that you are unaware of what is "unanswered". Just about everything. The idea that the BASC website might contain the reasoning for proposing a phase out of lead, without consulting members, is bizarre. If it is actually on there, please point it out for me. 

I have no wish to have phone calls or meetings with BASC, as that just seems like avoiding the very forum where issues have been raised. That isn't how a forum works. You raise a matter in public - you answer in public.

The matter of my membership of BASC has been raised by yourself and Conor O'Gorman. Could you explain why I should give you an answer when I can't get an answer to a straight question, along with a number of other members?

Hi Gordon 

BASC act daily without consulting its members.  The "consultation of members" I think you refer to is directly asking each member if a transition is what they want ?

That is not how BASC or any of the organisations that adopted this position work/ function. (all of whom are membership organisations) 

Instead they are run by employees and Council members.  Council members vote on decisions. - council are elected members of BASC. 

The reasons can be found on the BASC website, here is a link to the lates update. 

https://basc.org.uk/moving-forward-for-the-future-of-shooting/#:~:text=In 2020%2C a commitment was,plastics for live quarry shooting.

Also below is a link to all of the organisations statements and reasons for the transition. 

https://aimtosustain.org.uk/aim-to-sustain-lead-transition-statements-for-spring-2024/

This forum is a source of information for the users.  Conor regularly shares updates, and you have the option to ask questions. however as explained I use this in a personal capacity hence offering a meeting as I am not monitoring this  and wouldn't want to miss anything etc 

You can email me at BASC should you have a query or we can have a teams call. 

Now - are you a member ?

 

4 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Wasn’t aware that you needed to be a BASC member to be a member of PW 

I also can’t see being a member is relevant this is a open forum that Basc representatives post information on usually before the members get the email 

You don't.

I am interested to see who the few vocal people on this forum are with relation to BASC membership. 

Are you a member ?

[Gordon R]

Terry2016- your reply doesn't answer my question. I don't doubt that BASC doesn't consult members on many, many matters, but to suddenly announce a 5 year phasing out of lead, with no warning is a big decision. The announcement caught BASC members on the hop, as it did cartridge manufacturers. Did it ever occur to anyone that this would be a bombshell?

The reasons on the BASC website, podcasts etc skate over the reasons for lead phase out. Concerns for the environment are brief (aside from the wee chicks ingesting toxic lead shot) and the main thrust appears to be the allegedly flourishing market for game, shot with steel. The failure of BASC's initiative must surely have brought it home, just how badly it has been handled.

Quote

Now - are you a member ?

To be honest, I don't see what my membership has got to do with you or Conor O'Gorman and I don't care for the tone of your post.

Edited May 20 by Gordon R

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Terry2016 said:

Could you clarify are you a BASC member ?

I left BASC in 2020 when they removed the legal cover, at short notice and without consultation .

There has been nothing to draw me back since.

[Konor]

2 hours ago, Terry2016 said:

 

I am unsure what is "unanswered"

A look through past posts and other threads should give you a clearer picture Terry. After you have taken the time to inform yourself then perhaps you can offer a reaction to the points raised on the forum. 

[Konor]

4 hours ago, Terry2016 said:

The purpose was to offer a meeting to address any concerns you or anyone else has.

The purpose of the forum is to openly discuss issues and not arrange private meetings. Perhaps you should consider addressing those issues raised on the forum rather than using the forum as a means of providing a BASC newsletter. Feigning ignorance as Conor O'Gorman has been doing for months does you no credit. Maintaining that you are unaware of the issues or pushing for private team calls or private phone calls is a transparent ploy to avoid engaging with points raised. Your move to shift focus away from the point and onto the posters by querying BASC membership is yet more deflection. Thankfully unlike a private phone call the posts on the forum are there for all to read I'd suggest that both your own and Conor O'Gorman's posts are a poor advert for BASC accountability and in failing to acknowledge let alone engage with concerns raised you show yourselves unworthy to be considered as the voice of shooting. 

I challenge you to read through the points raised on this thread and also on all the other recently locked threads regarding the BASC position on lead shot use inland then post on this thread a response to the questions and concerns raised completely without either cherry picking or ignoring any that you may find uncomfortable. Perhaps then we can have a proper discussion and knock all this insincere "I am unsure what is unanswered" nonsense on the head. If you are not prepared to do that perhaps you should question the nature of your presence on the forum. If you conclude that it is to reinforce Conor O'Gorman and BASC's profile here then  engage in an honest straightforward manner and attempt to  improve the poor track record and little support that Conor O'Gorman has so far been responsible for. If you however choose to follow in the path of Conor O'Gorman and his insistence that private phone calls are the correct way to deal with points raised on a public forum please refrain from wasting the time of those who choose to post on the forum and just put in writing on the forum what you seem so keen to express in a private phone call. 

 

Edited May 20 by Konor
Addition

[Terry2016]

21 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Terry2016- your reply doesn't answer my question. I don't doubt that BASC doesn't consult members on many, many matters, but to suddenly announce a 5 year phasing out of lead, with no warning is a big decision. The announcement caught BASC members on the hop, as it did cartridge manufacturers. Did it ever occur to anyone that this would be a bombshell?

The reasons on the BASC website, podcasts etc skate over the reasons for lead phase out. Concerns for the environment are brief (aside from the wee chicks ingesting toxic lead shot) and the main thrust appears to be the allegedly flourishing market for game, shot with steel. The failure of BASC's initiative must surely have brought it home, just how badly it has been handled.

To be honest, I don't see what my membership has got to do with you or Conor O'Gorman and I don't care for the tone of your post.

Hi Gordon, 

My reply covers why BASC didn't consult its members in a way you had hoped for and the reasoning for the transition away from lead shot and single use plastics. 

I think what you are after is the reasons / evidence that allowed the decisions by all of the shooting organisations to be made, if so this is extremely well documented, from evidence to perception, the development of products and the ever impending legislation. All can be found on any of the supporting organisations websites or with a quick google search. 

We now have 140 + types of suitable sustainable cartridges in several gauges on the market for people to use, that alone is a huge step forwards.

Of course it would always be a challenge or a bombshell as you refer to it, but its one all of the shooting organisations agreed needed to be done head on. 

I am unsure why state that you don't like the tone of my message,  I can only assume it's because it's direct which is at odds as that is what you have been wanting "direct answers"

I you  are a member of BASC or not is of importance to me, for instance if you are a member and are dissatisfied with this position, have you spoke to anyone face to face to air your concerns ?

If you are not a member and would like to discuss the offer remains. 

Best 

Terry

21 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I left BASC in 2020 when they removed the legal cover, at short notice and without consultation .

There has been nothing to draw me back since.

A fair answer,  thank you,  can I ask,  was it the removal of insurance (comfort blanket) or the lack of consultation on the decision that made decide to leave?

[Terry2016]

19 hours ago, Konor said:

The purpose of the forum is to openly discuss issues and not arrange private meetings. Perhaps you should consider addressing those issues raised on the forum rather than using the forum as a means of providing a BASC newsletter. Feigning ignorance as Conor O'Gorman has been doing for months does you no credit. Maintaining that you are unaware of the issues or pushing for private team calls or private phone calls is a transparent ploy to avoid engaging with points raised. Your move to shift focus away from the point and onto the posters by querying BASC membership is yet more deflection. Thankfully unlike a private phone call the posts on the forum are there for all to read I'd suggest that both your own and Conor O'Gorman's posts are a poor advert for BASC accountability and in failing to acknowledge let alone engage with concerns raised you show yourselves unworthy to be considered as the voice of shooting. 

I challenge you to read through the points raised on this thread and also on all the other recently locked threads regarding the BASC position on lead shot use inland then post on this thread a response to the questions and concerns raised completely without either cherry picking or ignoring any that you may find uncomfortable. Perhaps then we can have a proper discussion and knock all this insincere "I am unsure what is unanswered" nonsense on the head. If you are not prepared to do that perhaps you should question the nature of your presence on the forum. If you conclude that it is to reinforce Conor O'Gorman and BASC's profile here then  engage in an honest straightforward manner and attempt to  improve the poor track record and little support that Conor O'Gorman has so far been responsible for. If you however choose to follow in the path of Conor O'Gorman and his insistence that private phone calls are the correct way to deal with points raised on a public forum please refrain from wasting the time of those who choose to post on the forum and just put in writing on the forum what you seem so keen to express in a private phone call. 

 

Hi Konor, 

You have misinterpreted my offer. 

For clarity, I won't spend hours on here reading past posts or threads, I use this forum in a personal capacity as explained in previous posts. 

My offer of a Team's meeting or meetings was for everyone on the forum - no mention of private meetings from me ? they are open to groups or individuals. The purpose was for anyone concerned who reads the thread. 

The BASC positions can be found on the BASC website, the challenges we face can be found on the HSE and BASC website.

Responses and reasoning can be found on every supporting organisations website. 

My offer remains for a meeting on teams should you like one. 

You failed to answer the question of membership ?

Edited May 21 by Terry2016

[Old farrier]

22 hours ago, Terry2016 said:

Hi Gordon 

BASC act daily without consulting its members.  The "consultation of members" I think you refer to is directly asking each member if a transition is what they want ?

That is not how BASC or any of the organisations that adopted this position work/ function. (all of whom are membership organisations) 

Instead they are run by employees and Council members.  Council members vote on decisions. - council are elected members of BASC. 

The reasons can be found on the BASC website, here is a link to the lates update. 

https://basc.org.uk/moving-forward-for-the-future-of-shooting/#:~:text=In 2020%2C a commitment was,plastics for live quarry shooting.

Also below is a link to all of the organisations statements and reasons for the transition. 

https://aimtosustain.org.uk/aim-to-sustain-lead-transition-statements-for-spring-2024/

This forum is a source of information for the users.  Conor regularly shares updates, and you have the option to ask questions. however as explained I use this in a personal capacity hence offering a meeting as I am not monitoring this  and wouldn't want to miss anything etc 

You can email me at BASC should you have a query or we can have a teams call. 

Now - are you a member ?

 

You don't.

I am interested to see who the few vocal people on this forum are with relation to BASC membership. 

Are you a member ?

I’m a member at the moment 

now it’s time for you to promote yourself and Basc 

try promoting the clay shoot in Bedfordshire 

tell us what is to be gained from attending 

will you be shooting?

if not why not? 

if so will you be using a alternative to lead shot ?

try telling the shooting community with plenty of notice what is available to the ordinary shooter 

is there a stand for kids ? 

have a go for the wife or something to amuse her while husband shoots 

prize for juniors colts high gun veteran or classes for them

prize for 4.10 or hammer gun or English gun or classes for them 

many won’t shoot because they know they can’t beat a Olympic champion that maybe there on the day 

this is the way to reach out to non members get them there and see if you can gather more members 

or just relay on the corporate big shoots that your organisation seems to favour for future members