Dave at kelton Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 (edited) I wanted to take some photos of this and thought it might be of interest as I am sure I havent posted it before. Purdey tell me it was sold 29 July 1855. It is beautifully made and has a snap action Jones Rotary underlever. They think it was a prototype so possibly the only one. You see the “Automatic” from time to time with the push forward lever but I have never seen this one. Any body else familiar with it or similar? As with all Woodwards, everything is best quality! Edited July 18 by Dave at kelton Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 Something about old English hammer guns, things of beauty and that one looks in pretty good condition for its age, do you shoot it? The hammers look as though they have been sand blasted or is that just the picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted July 18 Author Report Share Posted July 18 2 hours ago, old'un said: Something about old English hammer guns, things of beauty and that one looks in pretty good condition for its age, do you shoot it? The hammers look as though they have been sand blasted or is that just the picture? It is in excellent condition. The bores are clean but have clearly been lapped and polished as wall thickness is down to 19/20 thou min depending what gauge is used. Hammers haven’t been sandblasted just chemically cleaned. It is a long time since I shot with it as I hold it as part of my collection. The difficulty these days is knowing whether to hold and leave others to worry about it or sell. As I don’t need the money I am opting for the former at present! This sort of gun is most likely to go to an American collector if sold I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 Has one famous shot once quoted A GUN WITHOUT HAMMERS IS LIKE A SPANIAL WITHOUT EARS Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 Great thread and some fine guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 There has been a recent and very comprehensive book on Woodwards. Seems to be out of print at present. https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Dr-Nicholas-Harlow/dp/191315971X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 Several years ago I resorted a s/b 490 calibre percussion park rifle by Woodward which was cased . I later entered it one of Hots Auction and it was bought by a American collector . Enclosed is a cased image of the gun Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 6 hours ago, Dave at kelton said: I wanted to take some photos of this and thought it might be of interest as I am sure I havent posted it before. Purdey tell me it was sold 29 July 1855. It is beautifully made and has a snap action Jones Rotary underlever. They think it was a prototype so possibly the only one. You see the “Automatic” from time to time with the push forward lever but I have never seen this one. Any body else familiar with it or similar? As with all Woodwards, everything is best quality! It would be interesting to know whether the locks on your Woodward hammergun were made by Joseph Brazier `The Ashes` of Wolverhampton, who I understand made locks for Woodward and Purdey and no doubt a few others. I had a Woodward `The Automatic` with the push forward lever and those locks were by Brazier (as attached photos), who I believe started trading in the 1700s, so it`s highly probable that your hammergun had Brazier locks. Many thanks for posting the photos of that lovely Woodward. OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 8 hours ago, Feltwad said: Has one famous shot once quoted A GUN WITHOUT HAMMERS IS LIKE A SPANIAL WITHOUT EARS Feltwad king edward i believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 1 minute ago, ditchman said: king edward i believe Yes I believe that was the man Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 12 minutes ago, ditchman said: king edward i believe It has been variously attributed to Edward VII, Lord Ripon, and George V. I have no idea where the truth lies. George V was anoted hammer gun user, having his hammer ejector guns supplied by Purdey. Purdey made George V a set of 1/6 scale copies of his 'normal' guns. https://www.purdey.com/blogs/the-purdey-post/purdey-pieces-the-miniature-gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted July 18 Author Report Share Posted July 18 There is something about looking down between an elegant pair of hammers when you are shooting. I once shot a full season with a Hinton Hammergun. It was only on my own, and other small shoots and don’t think I ever wished I had a boxlock or sidelock ejector. Another gun I sold and wished I hadn’t but it funded an upgrade and I made a profit on it too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 19 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: It has been variously attributed to Edward VII, Lord Ripon, and George V. I have no idea where the truth lies. George V was anoted hammer gun user, having his hammer ejector guns supplied by Purdey. Purdey made George V a set of 1/6 scale copies of his 'normal' guns. https://www.purdey.com/blogs/the-purdey-post/purdey-pieces-the-miniature-gun i believe Gallyons also made pairs for the Sandringham kings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 11 hours ago, Dave at kelton said: There is something about looking down between an elegant pair of hammers when you are shooting. I once shot a full season with a Hinton Hammergun. It was only on my own, and other small shoots and don’t think I ever wished I had a boxlock or sidelock ejector. Another gun I sold and wished I hadn’t but it funded an upgrade and I made a profit on it too! The old Hammerguns seem to be holding their price better than hammerless, such a shame to lose them to America Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 3 hours ago, islandgun said: The old Hammerguns seem to be holding their price better than hammerless, such a shame to lose them to America Once the old hammer gun was the most used gun by all walks of life its downfall came with the law that all guns had to be in a gun cabinet, then with the cabinet costing more than the guns were worth thousands went to the furnace and with it died the art of the Damascus barrel some thing we will never see made again . Those that did survive were mostly the top London and Birmingham makers and to make it worse the gun trade said that Damascus barrels were dangerous so most were sleeved and restocked I have handled guns over and over again where the owners believed I have a old Purdy, Boss, Lancaster gun but the only original part is the action That is one of the reasons why today the hammer gun is bringing more than the box lock Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 39 minutes ago, Feltwad said: I have handled guns over and over again where the owners believed I have a old Purdy, Boss, Lancaster gun but the only original part is the action I have two hammer guns now. No 1 is an 1871 William Powell. It is very original, having its original 30" Damascus barrels, though now nitro proved at 12 bore (rather than black powder at 13/1) and some re-bluing of the trigger guard, top lever (Powell's patent), pins etc. The stock has had the chequering 'freshened', but otherwise conforms to its original measurements and has its original steel butt plate. I bought it from Powells over 35 years ago and have a copy of the original order data. I don't use it much as the barrels - whilst in proof, are quite thin and would easily dent. I forget who the locks are by, but they are as crisp as new and still have quite a bit of original colour. No 2 is a bit of a 'Trigger's broom'. It is retailed by Chas H Maleham from their London address, but made by W & C Scott. It has been sleeved (30"), at least one hammer has been replaced (they don't quite match), probably restocked. The stock has lost some size leaving the metal very slightly proud in places. Chequering is rather coarse , though otherwise quite well done. It dates to circa 1882. The sleeving (I believe done quite early in the sleeving history) is a little 'heavy handed' with substantial wall thickness and it is now slightly 'muzzle heavy', but a nice gun to shoot nonetheless. Jones underlever and back action peninsular locks by Stanton which still operate crisply. It is used fairly regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 If you take the image of a stand of hammer guns at the beginning of this thread all have been nitro reproofed after a full restoration of action tighten barrels lapped and a general clean saving the heritage of a Damascus hammer gun . I still believe that the gun trade re sleeve most Damascus barrels unnecessary destroying its Damascus heritage Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 2 hours ago, Feltwad said: If you take the image of a stand of hammer guns at the beginning of this thread all have been nitro reproofed after a full restoration of action tighten barrels lapped and a general clean saving the heritage of a Damascus hammer gun . I still believe that the gun trade re sleeve most Damascus barrels unnecessary destroying its Damascus heritage Feltwad It`s a great shame that the relining of Damascus barrels had its faults and was discontinued. Whilst the guns relined probably didn`t retain their original handling properties at least the lovely Damascus barrels were still very much intact cosmetically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Old Boggy said: It`s a great shame that the relining of Damascus barrels had its faults and was discontinued. Whilst the guns relined probably didn`t retain their original handling properties at least the lovely Damascus barrels were still very much intact cosmetically. My understanding was that any form of barrel repairs afterwards (dent lifting, rib relaying etc.) was not possible. Hence any minor damage/accident resulted in a 'write off' situation. Edited July 19 by JohnfromUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miserableolgit Posted July 19 Report Share Posted July 19 I love hammerguns, some lovely examples here, that Woodward is gorgeous. I think relining Damasus barrels is about the only way they can be revived and certainly preferable to the cheap bodge of I have occasionally seen of hacking them and sleeving with plain steel and blacking the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted July 20 Author Report Share Posted July 20 14 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: My understanding was that any form of barrel repairs afterwards (dent lifting, rib relaying etc.) was not possible. Hence any minor damage/accident resulted in a 'write off' situation. Some repairs are out but not all. So dents almost certainly but how often is that likely and that is what insurance is for. So, let me talk from experience. I fell with an unloaded Lancaster with lined barrels. The barrel loop was knocked off and the forend came away. It was an insurance claim and I took it to Graham McKinley. The loop had to be resoldered so the barrels heated. We were concerned the barrels might distort but he carried out the repair successfully and re browned the barrels. Mu fear of scrapping a beautiful side lever hammergun was unfounded. I will post some pics in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil Posted July 22 Report Share Posted July 22 On 19/07/2024 at 18:45, JohnfromUK said: My understanding was that any form of barrel repairs afterwards (dent lifting, rib relaying etc.) was not possible. Hence any minor damage/accident resulted in a 'write off' situation. Whilst a great idea they saved the Damascus pattern but the feel of the gun totally changed. I've even seen the barrels bow from lining them. And yes dents were a s*d and near impossible to remove. You struggle to tap the dents up because you are working on two separate layers of steel. I've relayed the ribs on them and refixed loops ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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