TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 Or you just give them away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 36 minutes ago, old'un said: From what I understand you need to register with your local council as a primary food producer to sell/exchange any game in fur or feather, I presume that includes pigeons that will be used for human consumption. That is correct old'un , the first site I came onto was the Food Standard Agency , they have got a section on passing on ( small game ) which included Pigeons to the food chain , I think you can get away with giving away a small amount of game to friends and family , that is more or less where it stop before regulations come into it , and again you are right where one of the first ports of call is to register with your local council , you can understand the concerns nowadays with people catching various deceases like E coli , I take it that the council inspectors are the ones who put ratings on the take away places and they would be the same people to inspect your game handling setup.? I know when they came to our game larder it was a victorian purpose built larder with a brick floor and mesh windows so the game could cool off by a air flow , this part was alright , but all the nails and hooks that held the game had to be replaced with either brass or plastic V shaped hooks , these had to be placed apart so no bird hanging up was touching another , the old tables that the game was laid on was replaced with stainless steel tables so they could be cleaned down , hot and cold water with a towel so those handling the game could wash there hands afterwards and they would have liked us to put a drain in so we could scrub the floor but our boss said no as he didn't want us taking part of the brick floor up , so we got round this by changing the fresh hold on the door so we brushed the water outside where we already had a drain in the courtyard . Like a lot of things in life , moving on a small amount of game for a drink or the odd box of cartridges have been going on for years without ever giving it a thought because that is something we always done , I remember once when I could have rented some marshes for duck shooting , I had enough so a mate of mine rented them , when he went down in the season there were dog walkers everywhere , he went to see then to see if they had permission and none of them had , there excuse was , we have been coming on here for years and no one have ever told us we can't , same with Pigeon shooting and moving on the bag , we have done it without question for most of our life and you don't ever give modern day rules and regulations a thought , maybe this might give them something to think about . MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted July 23 Author Report Share Posted July 23 Well there you have it. The Food Standards Agency rules and regulations. So Wiltsdave, Bunny Basher, Yickdaz and anyone else who has spent money on chest freezers and takes pigeons to a game dealer take note and get a licence. I will be applying for mine forthwith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 I sell mine to bird of prey enthusiasts I don't think a peregrine falcon falls under the food standards agency I could be wrong though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 19 minutes ago, yickdaz said: I sell mine to bird of prey enthusiasts I don't think a peregrine falcon falls under the food standards agency I could be wrong though No , I believe you are right , I daresay the only ruling you have got is what you have shot them with, as I don't think they would be very happy if one of there Hawks keeled over with lead poisoning . 1 hour ago, JDog said: Well there you have it. The Food Standards Agency rules and regulations. So Wiltsdave, Bunny Basher, Yickdaz and anyone else who has spent money on chest freezers and takes pigeons to a game dealer take note and get a licence. I will be applying for mine forthwith. We have all spent money on freezers and at one point P C who was shooting very big numbers was running up to seven , when we were selling good numbers in the 70s we were dealing at one time with up to six different dealers and any regulations were light years away , there was a time when Mr Frost from Frostgame would give the odd one or two Pigeon shooters who shot big numbers a freezer to keep them in as they were crying out for as many they could get. Now 50 years later times have changed , the regulations nowadays could be one of the reasons that some of the smaller game shoots no longer sell there unwanted game to the dealers , now whoever turn up can help themselves and clear away the whole lot . If I was B / B age and shot the amount of Pigeons he shoot I would at least look into it and see how far I would go , it might be slightly different selling to a dealer rather than to the public . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted July 23 Author Report Share Posted July 23 5 hours ago, yickdaz said: I sell mine to bird of prey enthusiasts I don't think a peregrine falcon falls under the food standards agency I could be wrong though I am sure some on this forum could make a case for that. One of my other outlets is to a chap who does fox control. With the aid of trail cams he baits likely areas with pigeons and has great success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 (edited) 5 hours ago, marsh man said: No , I believe you are right , I daresay the only ruling you have got is what you have shot them with, as I don't think they would be very happy if one of there Hawks keeled over with lead poisoning . We have all spent money on freezers and at one point P C who was shooting very big numbers was running up to seven , when we were selling good numbers in the 70s we were dealing at one time with up to six different dealers and any regulations were light years away , there was a time when Mr Frost from Frostgame would give the odd one or two Pigeon shooters who shot big numbers a freezer to keep them in as they were crying out for as many they could get. Now 50 years later times have changed , the regulations nowadays could be one of the reasons that some of the smaller game shoots no longer sell there unwanted game to the dealers , now whoever turn up can help themselves and clear away the whole lot . If I was B / B age and shot the amount of Pigeons he shoot I would at least look into it and see how far I would go , it might be slightly different selling to a dealer rather than to the public . Is there any real evidence that lead is that bad for hawks? I know they have a problem with condors in California but all the hawks round here are flourishing - red kites, which are scavengers and would pick up any wounded game birds, are 10 a penny. The anti-lead brigade have found 1 partridge with a pellet in it's crop. AND????? Edited July 23 by kitchrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 When i was rifle shooting rabbits. I had orders to fill. Lots were body shot so i could take the heads for a hawk. Apparently they keep the beak trim. I would bag 50 or so and then the rest head shot for the chef on the farm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 1 hour ago, kitchrat said: Is there any real evidence that lead is that bad for hawks? I know they have a problem with condors in California but all the hawks round here are flourishing - red kites, which are scavengers and would pick up any wounded game birds, are 10 a penny. The anti-lead brigade have found 1 partridge with a pellet in it's crop. AND????? I know nothing about what Hawks eat and wondered how the Hawk owners can tell if the Pigeons they are eating don't contain any lead shot the Pigeons had survived the odd lead pellet in there legs , wings or body that wasn't enough to kill them It was once stated that a high percentage of wild geese had shotgun pellets embedded in and around there bodies , this I can well believe with them being very birds and have been shot at long ranges and could easily survive a few pellets . MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 9 minutes ago, marsh man said: I know nothing about what Hawks eat and wondered how the Hawk owners can tell if the Pigeons they are eating don't contain any lead shot the Pigeons had survived the odd lead pellet in there legs , wings or body that wasn't enough to kill them It was once stated that a high percentage of wild geese had shotgun pellets embedded in and around there bodies , this I can well believe with them being very birds and have been shot at long ranges and could easily survive a few pellets . MM i switched to steel in 2018 so i could offload them to the hawk guys because the game dealers didn't want them anymore and i wont shoot what i cant eat or offload one summer i had 3 chest freezers full of pigeons and i didn't shoot another one until i got rid of the ones i had which i managed to do in the end. at the other side of the scale i can't keep up with the requests for pigeons, they know the risks and are well aware that they could contain a stray lead pellet even said that to me but hasn't put them off 6 years later they still ask for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 6 minutes ago, yickdaz said: i switched to steel in 2018 so i could offload them to the hawk guys because the game dealers didn't want them anymore and i wont shoot what i cant eat or offload one summer i had 3 chest freezers full of pigeons and i didn't shoot another one until i got rid of the ones i had which i managed to do in the end. at the other side of the scale i can't keep up with the requests for pigeons, they know the risks and are well aware that they could contain a stray lead pellet even said that to me but hasn't put them off 6 years later they still ask for them That is pretty good going , so it might be possible a Hawk could digest the odd lead pellet without doing any serious harm , do you sell them to individual Hawk owners , clubs or do they collect ? , not that I am looking for any Hawk buyers , my selling days are in the past and I am just interested in how things are done nowadays . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 individual some collect and i take them to others or meet halfway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilts#Dave Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 4 hours ago, JDog said: I am sure some on this forum could make a case for that. One of my other outlets is to a chap who does fox control. With the aid of trail cams he baits likely areas with pigeons and has great success. Very interesting ref the license Jdog, and not something I was aware of if I’m honest. We used to offload all of ours from the freezers to game dealers, I’m guessing they would have the food handling certification required? However, since Covid they have all but died a death so have managed to find a good outlet to someone with lots of ferrets to feed (wouldn’t be an issue license wise) and a gamekeeper who processes them for consumption (again I’d assume it would be his responsibility not mine, and I don’t take any money for them even)! I guess your pub outlet would see you as the ‘supplier’, do you give them over oven ready? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 13 hours ago, marsh man said: I know nothing about what Hawks eat and wondered how the Hawk owners can tell if the Pigeons they are eating don't contain any lead shot the Pigeons had survived the odd lead pellet in there legs , wings or body that wasn't enough to kill them It was once stated that a high percentage of wild geese had shotgun pellets embedded in and around there bodies , this I can well believe with them being very birds and have been shot at long ranges and could easily survive a few pellets . MM Many of the geese I shot in Canada (using tungsten shot at $5 a bang) had steel pellets just under the skin. Lead is almost insoluble in water and should pass through, although I did read once that the Edwardian Landowners could get a problem with lead shot, being so dense, could cause a sort of pocket in the bottom of their stomachs. Don't know if it's true but there was no mention of lead actually poisoning them. Condors, apparently have very corrosive stomach juices because they have to dissolve bones etc and therefore they can dissolve some of the lead from dead game. Also, the lead is in tiny fragments from high powered bullets mushrooming on impact and breaking up when hitting bones etc. Not the same a nice little lead pellets in pheasants or pigeons. I think this "lead is dangerous" thing is all overdone, in the name of virtue signalling, the new religion of the Righteous. BASC said to me that the fact we had phased out lead in fuel (where it is emitted in the form of an easily absorbed gas) was "overwhelming evidence" that we should adopt the lead ban. Also, they had found 1 partridge with 1 pellet in its crop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 10 hours ago, Wilts#Dave said: Very interesting ref the license Jdog, and not something I was aware of if I’m honest. We used to offload all of ours from the freezers to game dealers, I’m guessing they would have the food handling certification required? However, since Covid they have all but died a death so have managed to find a good outlet to someone with lots of ferrets to feed (wouldn’t be an issue license wise) and a gamekeeper who processes them for consumption (again I’d assume it would be his responsibility not mine, and I don’t take any money for them even)! I guess your pub outlet would see you as the ‘supplier’, do you give them over oven ready? Good morning Will ... We are all , or I hope we are law abiding citizens and do our best to follow the rules when it come to shooting , gun handling and anything else . like I said in one of my posts yesterday that until Mr Packham and co closed down Pigeon shooting overnight , myself and many others didn't hardly know there was a general licence , we do now and try to keep in touch by the forum with any new up to date guidelines when it is reviewed. Selling small game don't affect everyone on the forum so it very rarely come up as a thread , like you say that in the past when it was a normal thing to load your freezer up and then take them to your nearest dealer , you got a small receipt and paid out in cash , that was at the height of demand then it started to go downhill , the smaller dealers dropped out and we were left with just one in the whole of our county who was still buying frozen Pigeons , then the pandemic hit home and the rest is history , we then had to look for other outlets and I found a few pubs , butchers and so on , at that time I never really gave any food handling licence a thought even though I done all the work to get a certificate on the estate where I worked , then one day out of the Blue , a restaurant where I took a few pigeons asked me for 20 odd oven ready Pigeons and would I have to get them from a dealer , or can I do them myself , well I couldn't mess about with dressing twenty odd pigeons out so I took the dead birds to a small dealer I knew and he told me about all these laws that keep coming out and on paper I wasn't allowed to do them myself and get paid off the restaurant without the paperwork , I could have got round this by processing them in the game larder where I worked , after that I was getting near the end of getting more than I wanted so I never bothered to look more closely into the rules and regs , but I think you can give a few to family and friends without any bother , so from now on they are all my friends when I part with a few shot birds , MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon controller Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 I have had a licence for a good number of years as the game dealers insisted on it . I had a suspicion that they used my numbers to book in other bags as talking to other shooters they had never heard of it. I now sell to hawk people and not human consumption . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 1 hour ago, pigeon controller said: I have had a licence for a good number of years as the game dealers insisted on it . I had a suspicion that they used my numbers to book in other bags as talking to other shooters they had never heard of it. I now sell to hawk people and not human consumption . Hi P C , Hope your enjoying the nice weather and getting your daily exercise in the countryside, like most things with regulations there are round about ways to get past them , game dealers need to buy game to stay in business and the chances of an inspection must be very remote and how can they tell who the game is from , the small dealer who processed my Pigeons had his gate shut with a notice that was put on during the pandemic which read , No Entry due to corvid restrictions , Please ring the number below for access , this was kept on the gate long after the restrictions were lifted just in case he needed to prepare for a visit , and I once took some Hares up to another dealer that were shot by one of the tenant farmers on our place in March , I didn't know at the time you were not allowed to sell Hares after a certain date in March , anyhow with him being law abiding he said he wasn't allowed to buy them , but rather than waste them I will take them and pay you in the shooting season , on paper he didn't buy them but paid my expenses later on in the shooting season , this was many years ago , he have passed on and the place shut years ago as a game dealer . MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.