Notting hill carnival

[shaun4860]

On 29/08/2024 at 17:38, TIGHTCHOKE said:

HATE, MONEY, TURF, DRUGS, the list will be endless.

Mainly Somalians if I heard correctly 🤦🏻‍♂️

[shaun4860]

16 hours ago, Mungler said:

I always love the reply to zero tolerance shop lifting. Everyone rolls out the starving family stealing bread. 

There is a self service co-op opposite where I work. Out of our office windows and when in the store we see shop lifting every day (no joke). Security sprinting out the door every day. I just have witnessed 50 incidences of shop lifting and we all know the prolific thieves by sight. I can absolutely assure you there is not a single starving family shoplifting out of that store. My eyes tell me everything I need to know and I don’t deny the truth of what my eyes see and tell me (little bit of 1984 in there for the literary fans).

.
 

Bit on our local news last night about the most prolific shoplifter in Middlesbrough (I think).

was a junkie at the time, says he used to get shopping lists off certain shops of what they would like.

Once he completed the list he would go to said shop, they would pay him for the goods and put them on their own shelves.

IMHO most shoplifters are doing it for drugs

[enfieldspares]

My son's mother went to the Notting Hill Carnival the weekend gone. She seemed to have enjoyed herself even though she didn't seem too happy here waiting for the rest of her troupe to arrive....as they were late.

Edited August 31 by enfieldspares

[Raja Clavata]

9 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I disagree,  the AI seeks to excuse poor personal behaviour , and blame it on a prejudiced society.

It removes personal responsibility, and shifts it away from the individual.

Everyone has choices in life.

Some make poor ones, and they're not all from the wrong side of town, or from minorities. 

You’re giving the AI more credit than it deserves, it’s a LLM and it seeks nothing.

It’s not blaming the issue on a prejudiced society, I venture you’re coming across as prejudiced because you’re not acknowledging the complexity of the issue. Accepting it’s a complex issue is not absolving responsibility of the individuals who choose that path in life.

I agree on your point of choice, absolutely. 
 

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

It’s not blaming the issue on a prejudiced society, I venture you’re coming across as prejudiced because you’re not acknowledging the complexity of the issue.

So if you don’t acknowledge the issue as complex, your prejudiced?

Oh dear Lord.

People search for and create complexity where there is none or where there doesn’t actually have to be any.

Just out of interest, where does personal choice and or responsibility (including parental) feature in this? Or are they washed away with ‘complex cultural’ issues?

Very few issues are actually complicated and are only as complicated as people want to make them.

Indeed, solutions are actually straightforward and out there, but they are waived or ignored for ‘other’ reasons.

It’s all going to have to break before there is an appetite to take and accept the hard solutions on offer.

For example, I cannot see any resolution to the current knife crime epidemic without targeted stop and search and mandatory punishment in line with higher detection and prosecution rates. However, these measures have been abandoned - why? Let’s talk through the rationale for that.

In the meantime we see all sorts of ineffective joke nonsense like banning knife sales or making zombie knives ‘illegal’. Law are only for the law abiding and if you’re carrying a knife with the expectation of using it, stabbing someone and committing an illegal act / a crime, you aren’t going to be bothered as to whether the knife you use has been made ‘illegal’. What will stop you in the reasonable time expectation of being stopped, searched and banged up. 

 

 

[Raja Clavata]

10 minutes ago, Mungler said:

So if you don’t acknowledge the issue as complex, your prejudiced?

Oh dear Lord.

People search for and create complexity where there is none or where there doesn’t actually have to be any.

Just out of interest, where does personal choice and or responsibility (including parental) feature in this? Or are they washed away with ‘complex cultural’ issues?

Very few issues are actually complicated and are only as complicated as people want to make them.

Indeed, solutions are actually straightforward and out there, but they are waived or ignored for ‘other’ reasons.

It’s all going to have to break before there is an appetite to take and accept the hard solutions on offer.

For example, I cannot see any resolution to the current knife crime epidemic without targeted stop and search and mandatory punishment in line with higher detection and prosecution rates. However, these measures have been abandoned - why? Let’s talk through the rationale for that.

In the meantime we see all sorts of ineffective joke nonsense like banning knife sales or making zombie knives ‘illegal’. Law are only for the law abiding and if you’re carrying a knife with the expectation of using it, stabbing someone and committing an illegal act / a crime, you aren’t going to be bothered as to whether the knife you use has been made ‘illegal’. What will stop you in the reasonable time expectation of being stopped, searched and banged up. 

 

 

I ventured your prejudices prevent you from acknowledging it’s a complex issue. Language pertaining to ‘yoof’ clubs and pool tables reinforces my perception.

I already answered on the point of choice and responsibility.

In order to discuss meaningfully we probably need to distinguish between complexity and complication.

I agree on your point about people tending to make things more “complicated” than they need to be but there’s also a counter tendency to try to reduce inherently complex things beyond their irreducible complex limit. For some people it’s the only way for their relatively simple minds to process the complexities of the world. I’m obviously not suggesting that’s the case with you.

I’m not against targeted stop and search but there’s little point wasting front line police officers time if the perps don’t end up in court, let alone banged up.

I mentioned the point about two tier policing based on the fact some appear to support it in some instances, like knife crime, but not in others, like the recent civil unrest.

Do you think we need to distinguish between what used to be called SOS knife crime and other crimes involving knives?

[Mungler]

39 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I ventured your prejudices prevent you from acknowledging it’s a complex issue. Language pertaining to ‘yoof’ clubs and pool tables reinforces my perception.

I already answered on the point of choice and responsibility.

In order to discuss meaningfully we probably need to distinguish between complexity and complication.

I agree on your point about people tending to make things more “complicated” than they need to be but there’s also a counter tendency to try to reduce inherently complex things beyond their irreducible complex limit. For some people it’s the only way for their relatively simple minds to process the complexities of the world. I’m obviously not suggesting that’s the case with you.

I’m not against targeted stop and search but there’s little point wasting front line police officers time if the perps don’t end up in court, let alone banged up.

I mentioned the point about two tier policing based on the fact some appear to support it in some instances, like knife crime, but not in others, like the recent civil unrest.

Do you think we need to distinguish between what used to be called SOS knife crime and other crimes involving knives?

With respect, that is word soup. You probably rushed it. 

Anyone growing up in the 70’s and 80’s were force fed the groovy nonsense of the day that it was a lack of youth clubs that was the main reason behind delinquency. That is the reference being made. 

The current groovy nonsense appears to be focused on ‘culture’ whatever that means. 

On a random trawl of the internet this was interesting:

 

Frequently Asked Questions about Causes of Juvenile Crime

Do school environment and educational background have any impact on juvenile crime rates?

Yes, school environment and educational background significantly impact juvenile crime rates. Poor school conditions, lower quality education, and negative peer influence can predispose juveniles to crime. Conversely, supportive educational environments reduce the likelihood of criminal behaviour.

What are the major psychological factors that contribute to juvenile crime?

Major psychological factors contributing to juvenile crime include a lack of impulse control, difficulties in emotion regulation, exposure to violence or trauma, substance abuse, and mental health issues such as conduct disorder or attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).

How does family background influence the occurrence of juvenile crime?

Family background can significantly influence juvenile crime. Factors such as parental neglect, domestic violence, broken homes, poverty, and parental substance abuse can contribute to delinquency. Lack of positive role models and guidance may lead children towards criminal behaviour.

How can socio-economic conditions play a role in increasing juvenile crime rates?

Socio-economic conditions can increase juvenile crime rates as poverty, poor education, and lack of employment opportunities can lead to delinquency. These conditions potentially foster environments of neglect, substance abuse, and violence, indirectly making crime an attractive outlet for frustrated youth.

Can exposure to media violence be a trigger to juvenile crime?

Yes, research suggests that exposure to media violence can potentially trigger juvenile crime. It can desensitise youngsters to violence, reinforce aggressive behaviour, and promote an exaggerated view of the real-world's danger.

 

You will note that there are some similarities with the AI generated response earlier, but you add in ‘colour’ into the equation and it throws a left wing spoke.

Note the above does not reference colour at all or culture. 

Back to stop and search - you’ve done damning with feint praise.

Targeted stop and search - yes or no?

You’ve wrapped in the suggestion being that stop and search won’t work without more courts, more prosecutions and more prisons - all relevant but not definitive. So, targeted stop and search, yes or no?

Indeed, just stopping the target market and lifting knives off them has to be a start of somewhere, no? If those concerned had the increased expectation of being stopped, searched and their bladed article removed from their person (and followed up with a night in the cells and a prosecution process for better or for worse), there will still be a fall in knife crime. Which is an improvement to now.

What we do know is banning knife sales in various guises doesn’t work and yet we keep at it seemingly because we have no other ideas and the one we know does work comes at the risk of offending a small minority in the offender target group…

If someone has a better idea than stop and search that doesn’t involve yoof clubs or some long winded meandering nonsense that goes nowhere based on culture then we’re all ears. 
.

 

Edited August 31 by Mungler

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

With respect, that is word soup. You probably rushed it. 

Anyone growing up in the 70’s and 80’s were force fed the groovy nonsense of the day that it was a lack of youth clubs that was the main reason behind delinquency. That is the reference being made. 

The current groovy nonsense appears to be focused on ‘culture’ whatever that means. 

On a random trawl of the internet this was interesting:

 

Frequently Asked Questions about Causes of Juvenile Crime

Do school environment and educational background have any impact on juvenile crime rates?

Yes, school environment and educational background significantly impact juvenile crime rates. Poor school conditions, lower quality education, and negative peer influence can predispose juveniles to crime. Conversely, supportive educational environments reduce the likelihood of criminal behaviour.

What are the major psychological factors that contribute to juvenile crime?

Major psychological factors contributing to juvenile crime include a lack of impulse control, difficulties in emotion regulation, exposure to violence or trauma, substance abuse, and mental health issues such as conduct disorder or attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).

How does family background influence the occurrence of juvenile crime?

Family background can significantly influence juvenile crime. Factors such as parental neglect, domestic violence, broken homes, poverty, and parental substance abuse can contribute to delinquency. Lack of positive role models and guidance may lead children towards criminal behaviour.

How can socio-economic conditions play a role in increasing juvenile crime rates?

Socio-economic conditions can increase juvenile crime rates as poverty, poor education, and lack of employment opportunities can lead to delinquency. These conditions potentially foster environments of neglect, substance abuse, and violence, indirectly making crime an attractive outlet for frustrated youth.

Can exposure to media violence be a trigger to juvenile crime?

Yes, research suggests that exposure to media violence can potentially trigger juvenile crime. It can desensitise youngsters to violence, reinforce aggressive behaviour, and promote an exaggerated view of the real-world's danger.

 

You will note that there are some similarities with the AI generated response earlier, but you add in ‘colour’ into the equation and it throws a left wing spoke.

Note the above does not reference colour at all or culture. 

Back to stop and search - you’ve done damning with feint praise.

Targeted stop and search - yes or no?

You’ve wrapped in the suggestion being that stop and search won’t work without more courts, more prosecutions and more prisons - all relevant but not definitive. So, targeted stop and search, yes or no?

Indeed, just stopping the target market and lifting knives off them has to be a start of somewhere, no? If those concerned had the increased expectation of being stopped, searched and their bladed article removed from their person (and followed up with a night in the cells and a prosecution process for better or for worse), there will still be a fall in knife crime. Which is an improvement to now.

What we do know is banning knife sales in various guises doesn’t work and yet we keep at it seemingly because we have no other ideas and the one we know does work comes at the risk of offending a small minority in the offender target group…

If someone has a better idea than stop and search that doesn’t involve yoof clubs or some long winded meandering nonsense that goes nowhere based on culture then we’re all ears. 
.

 

It is a complex issue which your advocating to make simple. The problem with that is, if you start targeting one group, rightly or wrongly, you create more anger, which leads to further issues, creating a perpetual cycle. It's no different from hearts and minds when the military take action, blame and target one group and all the innocent people you will inevitably stop and search and you risk creating further future problems. 

What needs to happen is a carrot and a stick, offer a solution to the drivers of the problems, a way out of poverty, jobs, education and instead of blame an acknowledgment of past wrongs. Once that is done, you can take strong action against those who refuse to respond. 

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

With respect, that is word soup. You probably rushed it. 

Anyone growing up in the 70’s and 80’s were force fed the groovy nonsense of the day that it was a lack of youth clubs that was the main reason behind delinquency. That is the reference being made. 

The current groovy nonsense appears to be focused on ‘culture’ whatever that means. 

On a random trawl of the internet this was interesting:

 

Frequently Asked Questions about Causes of Juvenile Crime

Do school environment and educational background have any impact on juvenile crime rates?

Yes, school environment and educational background significantly impact juvenile crime rates. Poor school conditions, lower quality education, and negative peer influence can predispose juveniles to crime. Conversely, supportive educational environments reduce the likelihood of criminal behaviour.

What are the major psychological factors that contribute to juvenile crime?

Major psychological factors contributing to juvenile crime include a lack of impulse control, difficulties in emotion regulation, exposure to violence or trauma, substance abuse, and mental health issues such as conduct disorder or attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).

How does family background influence the occurrence of juvenile crime?

Family background can significantly influence juvenile crime. Factors such as parental neglect, domestic violence, broken homes, poverty, and parental substance abuse can contribute to delinquency. Lack of positive role models and guidance may lead children towards criminal behaviour.

How can socio-economic conditions play a role in increasing juvenile crime rates?

Socio-economic conditions can increase juvenile crime rates as poverty, poor education, and lack of employment opportunities can lead to delinquency. These conditions potentially foster environments of neglect, substance abuse, and violence, indirectly making crime an attractive outlet for frustrated youth.

Can exposure to media violence be a trigger to juvenile crime?

Yes, research suggests that exposure to media violence can potentially trigger juvenile crime. It can desensitise youngsters to violence, reinforce aggressive behaviour, and promote an exaggerated view of the real-world's danger.

 

You will note that there are some similarities with the AI generated response earlier, but you add in ‘colour’ into the equation and it throws a left wing spoke.

Note the above does not reference colour at all or culture. 

Back to stop and search - you’ve done damning with feint praise.

Targeted stop and search - yes or no?

You’ve wrapped in the suggestion being that stop and search won’t work without more courts, more prosecutions and more prisons - all relevant but not definitive. So, targeted stop and search, yes or no?

Indeed, just stopping the target market and lifting knives off them has to be a start of somewhere, no? If those concerned had the increased expectation of being stopped, searched and their bladed article removed from their person (and followed up with a night in the cells and a prosecution process for better or for worse), there will still be a fall in knife crime. Which is an improvement to now.

What we do know is banning knife sales in various guises doesn’t work and yet we keep at it seemingly because we have no other ideas and the one we know does work comes at the risk of offending a small minority in the offender target group…

If someone has a better idea than stop and search that doesn’t involve yoof clubs or some long winded meandering nonsense that goes nowhere based on culture then we’re all ears. 
.

 

Perhaps we have a different understanding of what constitutes word soup.

Maybe we need to be a tad more rigorous in the specifics of the topic and the complexities. I prompted the AI based on why young black males tend to be associated with knife crime.

This is the AI response to “what are the main causes of juvenile crime in the U.K.?”

<GenAI>
Juvenile crime in the UK can be attributed to several key factors:

1. **Socioeconomic Factors**: Poverty, lack of access to education, and unemployment can lead to feelings of disenfranchisement and may push some young people towards criminal activities.

2. **Family Influence**: Family dynamics play a crucial role. Children from unstable or dysfunctional families, where there might be domestic violence, substance abuse, or neglect, are often at a higher risk of engaging in criminal behavior.

3. **Peer Pressure**: Adolescents are heavily influenced by their peers. The desire to fit in or gain acceptance can lead some young people to commit crimes, especially in group settings.

4. **Exposure to Violence**: Young people exposed to violence in their communities or homes may become desensitized and more likely to engage in criminal activities themselves.

5. **Mental Health Issues**: Many young offenders may struggle with mental health issues, which can contribute to their criminal behavior. Lack of support and resources for mental health can exacerbate these issues.

6. **Substance Abuse**: The use of drugs and alcohol can impair judgment and increase the likelihood of engaging in criminal activities.

7. **Lack of Opportunities**: Limited access to positive recreational activities, mentorship programs, and job opportunities can leave young people feeling hopeless and more likely to engage in crime.

8. **Media Influence**: Exposure to violent or criminal behavior in media can also play a role in normalizing such actions for impressionable youth.

Addressing these factors through community programs, family support, and education can help mitigate juvenile crime rates.

</GenAI>

In binary answer to stop and search: yes. But with some caveat and an important question.

Caveats: as part of a broader approach to tackle the issue systematically, stop, search and confiscate is pointless or at best a waste of police time, effort and public funds.

Question: regarding “targeted” what profile(s) are you suggesting to target?

And, predictably, you’re back to referring to “we” again, can’t help yourself can you 🙄

[Raja Clavata]

I’m gonna say it again, even a dumb LLM which actually knows nothing and is unable to reason provides a response better reflecting the complexities of the matter than someone who has built a successful business advising people on legal matters 😂

No wonder there’s so much resistance to technology in certain practices…

[enfieldspares]

There is, for sure, crime at Notting Hill Carnival that is fact. However is this not ALWAYS the case that where there is a mass of "tourists" or visitors to a large outdoor public event that criminals will see this as an ideal chance to rob? 

One could equally blame those with a legitimate concern about illegal immigration for those recent gathereings being used by those who used them to loot and steal. Where there is a belief that masses of people will give anonymity to hide their wickedness you will find criminals.

You would no more blame the organisers of the Cheltenham Festival or the Paris Metro or London Underground providers for pickpocketing being rife that you should blame the organisers of Carnival for criminals using it as a cover for their activities.

The comparison with football is unfair as there are not in one location the hundreds of thousands that Notting Hill attracts and not for the major part of the day but just for the fairly short pre-match and post-match arrival and departure window.

 

[Mungler]

26 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I’m gonna say it again, even a dumb LLM which actually knows nothing and is unable to reason provides a response better reflecting the complexities of the matter than someone who has built a successful business advising people on legal matters 😂

No wonder there’s so much resistance to technology in certain practices…

But there is no reason - you just repeat the usual trope of ‘complexities’ and we’ve had a smattering of ‘cultural’ elsewhere. Both hallmarks of now enshrined low expectation for a certain demographic. 

Back to stop and search - any alternative to put forward? And in the absence of an alternative, why aren’t we as a nation considering going back to targeted stop and search?

And in the meantime knife crime soars.

Edit

And Trevor Phillips says it best

“These are Trevor Phillips’s [OBE] words and not mine, if I can make that clear.  As you remember, he was the boss of the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Trevor Phillips [OBE] said that “‘white liberals’ need to stop ‘hand-wringing’ and admit the truth that the wave of knife crime is black children killing black children.”  He called for officers to target high-risk inner-city areas and to be exempt from laws which prevent them discriminating on the basis of someone's race or ethnic origin.”

Edited August 31 by Mungler

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, enfieldspares said:

You would no more blame the organisers of the Cheltenham Festival or the Paris Metro or London Underground providers for pickpocketing being rife that you should blame the organisers of Carnival for criminals using it as a cover for their activities.

Im going to be a little picky here...

If you are paying for an event or service, you expect (as a duty of care) that your person should be reasonably protected from theft or injury ?
Security should , and is usually provided for this, and while not 100% guaranteed to protect you, there is a reasonable expectation of some level of protection.

Free outdoor events such as the Carnival do not enjoy the same levels of protection, whilst there is a large police presence, they seem only interested in the more serious crimes, weed is smoke openly for example, and petty crime like street robbery is largely ignored , but then that is par for the course in London these days anyway, Mr Khan has said thats just part of being in a big city, so we have to accept it and move on.

 

10 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Trevor Phillips [OBE] said that “‘white liberals’ need to stop ‘hand-wringing’ and admit the truth that the wave of knife crime is black children killing black children.”

Imagine a white man saying that, he would be hung out to dry 😄

[Zoli 12 guage]

stop and search may be a contentious issue (to one ethnic group and liberal hand wringers) BUT,why if this was implemented in order to arrest/lower knife crime would you target groups that didn't fit the pattern of who commits the vast majority of these types of crimes🤷‍♀️

you would think that the group/s that complain the most would be 100% behind it as it's their own (predominantly) young men that are targeted in these attacks👍

BUT NO, it's racist and unfair!

go figure🤷‍♀️

[Mungler]

19 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Imagine a white man saying that, he would be hung out to dry 😄

The left went for him for saying that obvious truth and which didn’t go down at all well with the liberal hand wringers.

Indeed, Mr Phillips didn’t address the complex issues or cultural connotations - he went straight to the fact of the matter and a solution. 

We should ask why he was ignored and the powers that be still refuse to consider targeted stop and search even when knife crime is now off the chart and there are no other plans / solutions in the pipeline.

Ah but why go for simple when there’s hand wringing to be done, cultures and minorities to bend to, multiculturalism to promote and a lack of youth clubs to blame 😆

 

16 minutes ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

stop and search may be a contentious issue (to one ethnic group and liberal hand wringers) BUT,why if this was implemented in order to arrest/lower knife crime would you target groups that didn't fit the pattern of who commits the vast majority of these types of crimes🤷‍♀️

you would think that the group/s that complain the most would be 100% behind it as it's their own (predominantly) young men that are targeted in these attacks👍

BUT NO, it's racist and unfair!

go figure🤷‍♀️

It is that simple. 

And if it’s not - well, let’s at least give it a proper go and see if it does / does not have any effect. Bet it does though.

.

Edited August 31 by Mungler

[Yellow Bear]

As many see the situation as it occurs in simple terms.  I have used simple shorthand to avoid typing.

ethnic brit assaults ethnic brit..................criminal offence with little or no cover.

non ethnic brit assaults non ethnic brit..................Raja's AI trope comes into play with little or no cover.

non ethnic brit assaults ethnic brit..................Raja's AI trope comes into play with virtually no cover.

ethnic brit assaults non ethnic brit..................  Instant Racist attack, Raja's AI trope is forgotten and massive  cover.

Can the current protagonists explain why this appears to be the case.

 

[Mungler]

15 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

As many see the situation as it occurs in simple terms.  I have used simple shorthand to avoid typing.

ethnic brit assaults ethnic brit..................criminal offence with little or no cover.

non ethnic brit assaults non ethnic brit..................Raja's AI trope comes into play with little or no cover.

non ethnic brit assaults ethnic brit..................Raja's AI trope comes into play with virtually no cover.

ethnic brit assaults non ethnic brit..................  Instant Racist attack, Raja's AI trope is forgotten and massive  cover.

Can the current protagonists explain why this appears to be the case.

 

It’s all shrouded in higher status opinions and signalling of higher status opinions. 

Brexit is another classic battlefield for the projection of a higher status opinion. 

[Mungler]

Hot off the press.

The names of those arrested and now on remand indicate that targeted stop and search might have prevented this.

There we go.

No doubt there are a myriad of complex and cultural issues in play here vis. their attackers.

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

But there is no reason - you just repeat the usual trope of ‘complexities’ and we’ve had a smattering of ‘cultural’ elsewhere. Both hallmarks of now enshrined low expectation for a certain demographic. 

Back to stop and search - any alternative to put forward? And in the absence of an alternative, why aren’t we as a nation considering going back to targeted stop and search?

And in the meantime knife crime soars.

Edit

And Trevor Phillips says it best

“These are Trevor Phillips’s [OBE] words and not mine, if I can make that clear.  As you remember, he was the boss of the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Trevor Phillips [OBE] said that “‘white liberals’ need to stop ‘hand-wringing’ and admit the truth that the wave of knife crime is black children killing black children.”  He called for officers to target high-risk inner-city areas and to be exempt from laws which prevent them discriminating on the basis of someone's race or ethnic origin.”

I already said yes to stop and search. This is getting a bit boring now. 
Shortly, others who can’t think for themselves will no doubt be using your trash phrases and you’ll revert to accusations of signalling and such like. Yawn.

1 hour ago, Yellow Bear said:

As many see the situation as it occurs in simple terms.  I have used simple shorthand to avoid typing.

ethnic brit assaults ethnic brit..................criminal offence with little or no cover.

non ethnic brit assaults non ethnic brit..................Raja's AI trope comes into play with little or no cover.

non ethnic brit assaults ethnic brit..................Raja's AI trope comes into play with virtually no cover.

ethnic brit assaults non ethnic brit..................  Instant Racist attack, Raja's AI trope is forgotten and massive  cover.

Can the current protagonists explain why this appears to be the case.

 

Right on cue..

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

It’s all shrouded in higher status opinions and signalling of higher status opinions. 

Brexit is another classic battlefield for the projection of a higher status opinion. 

Blimey, you even brought up Brexit too 😂😂😂

I must find out how to reply in plum coloured text in the future.

[Dave-G]

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

.... Juvenile crime in the UK can be attributed to several key factors:

1. **Socioeconomic Factors**: Poverty, lack of access to education, and unemployment can lead to feelings of disenfranchisement and may push some young people towards criminal activities.

2. **Family Influence**: Family dynamics play a crucial role. Children from unstable or dysfunctional families, where there might be domestic violence, substance abuse, or neglect, are often at a higher risk of engaging in criminal behavior.

3. **Peer Pressure**: Adolescents are heavily influenced by their peers. The desire to fit in or gain acceptance can lead some young people to commit crimes, especially in group settings.

4. **Exposure to Violence**: Young people exposed to violence in their communities or homes may become desensitized and more likely to engage in criminal activities themselves.

5. **Mental Health Issues**: Many young offenders may struggle with mental health issues, which can contribute to their criminal behavior. Lack of support and resources for mental health can exacerbate these issues.

6. **Substance Abuse**: The use of drugs and alcohol can impair judgment and increase the likelihood of engaging in criminal activities.

7. **Lack of Opportunities**: Limited access to positive recreational activities, mentorship programs, and job opportunities can leave young people feeling hopeless and more likely to engage in crime.

8. **Media Influence**: Exposure to violent or criminal behavior in media can also play a role in normalizing such actions for impressionable youth.

Addressing these factors through community programs, family support, and education can help mitigate juvenile crime rates.

I'll summarise the above as scummy youths who lacked and/or defied proper leadership by their parents and teachers - and became feral.

[Raja Clavata]

13 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Hot off the press.

The names of those arrested and now on remand indicate that targeted stop and search might have prevented this.

There we go.

No doubt there are a myriad of complex and cultural issues in play here vis. their attackers.

Tragic and totally unnecessary loss of lives.

Serious question, how does targeted stop and search work, at scale, during an event like the Notting Hill Carnival? Or are you suggesting it would have prevented the perps being there in the first place? If so, how confident of that are you, really?

[Mungler]

25 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Tragic and totally unnecessary loss of lives.

Serious question, how does targeted stop and search work, at scale, during an event like the Notting Hill Carnival? Or are you suggesting it would have prevented the perps being there in the first place? If so, how confident of that are you, really?

Rough breakdown of numbers, age, sex and ethnicity.

Magic window is 16-30, male and non white.

The numbers are do-able. Not everyone would have to get searched; there will be a tipping point of effectiveness and in all likelihood requiring less than 51% of the target demographic being searched.

Deploy police and heavily focus on the target demographic - once word gets out that there’s a better than average change of getting stopped and searched then those that follow won’t bother to attend / bring a knife.

Failing that, if there was prolonged targeted stop and search in place prior to the event taking place then there’s also an increased chance of those concerned being either picked up or prior dissuaded from carrying.

Let’s give it a go eh? Got to be better than doing nothing or the yoof club route.

Ah but you won’t get it past the liberal hand wringers (that’s Trevor Phillips OBE words, not mine 😉)

And how confident are you it wouldn’t work?

.

Edited August 31 by Mungler

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, Mungler said:

Rough breakdown of numbers, age, sex and ethnicity.

Magic window is 16-30.

The numbers are do-able. Not everyone would have to get searched; there will be a tipping point of effectiveness and in all likelihood requiring less than 51% of the target demographic being searched.

Deploy police and heavily focus on the target demographic - once word gets out that there’s a better than average change of getting stopped and searched then those that follow won’t bother to attend / bring a knife.

Failing that, if there was prolonged targeted stop and search in place prior to the event taking place then there’s also an increased chance of those concerned being either picked up or prior dissuaded from carrying.

Let’s give it a go eh? Got to be better than doing nothing or the yoof club route.

Ah but you won’t get it past the liberal hand wringers (that’s Trevor Phillips OBE words, not mine 😉)

 

 

It must be nice having everything so crystal clear in your head. Unfortunately the world doesn't work like that. You'd probably end up with a riot if you randomly without any evidence decided to search the majority of the group you've mentioned without any grounds. 

The criminal element would simply adapt there tactics by hiding weapons in pre made stash points so as not to be caught with them, but still maintaining easy access. 

Prolonged stop and search with no grounds before the event would probably unleash an even worse backlash, with an even more angry demographic angry at the establishment in the long term, with even more stabbings to look forward to in future. 

 

[Mungler]

15 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

It must be nice having everything so crystal clear in your head. Unfortunately the world doesn't work like that. You'd probably end up with a riot if you randomly without any evidence decided to search the majority of the group you've mentioned without any grounds. 

The criminal element would simply adapt there tactics by hiding weapons in pre made stash points so as not to be caught with them, but still maintaining easy access. 

Prolonged stop and search with no grounds before the event would probably unleash an even worse backlash, with an even more angry demographic angry at the establishment in the long term, with even more stabbings to look forward to in future. 

 

That is absolute defeatist liberal hand wringing nonsense right there.

So you’re against targeted stop and search because it’s going to upset a narrow minority who are statistically the most at risk of being stabbed / stabbing.

I’ll bet you £20 to charity right now that everyone hauled in for the carnival knife murders fits into the target demographic mentioned above - male, non white and 16-30. And what a flukey coincidence that would be - or would it be where the factual data and stats take us?

Again, I look forward to your alternative effective strategy and where no one gets upset or offended 😆

Ah, to ignore the truth and the stats to not cause offence or upset. Madness.

And boy o boy was Trevor Phillips right.

.

Edited August 31 by Mungler

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Ah, to ignore the truth and the stats to not cause offence or upset. Madness.

Yet this is where we are at, more scared of offending minorities than the actual stabbings and murder.
Dont forget Khans words 'Part and parcel of living in a large city like London'
In other words, we cant do anything about it, but what he really means is , we cant do anything about it without offending people.

 

21 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

The criminal element would simply adapt there tactics by hiding weapons in pre made stash points so as not to be caught with them, but still maintaining easy access. 

So youre admitting that there are those that are planning the criminal use of knives at such events, such that they would cache weapons ?
Does that not give you a good reason to stop and search ?
Or just not bother searching anyone in case..
A. It might upset them enough to cause a riot ?
B. Its pointless anyway because theyve hidden them along the planned attack route ?

 

24 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Prolonged stop and search with no grounds before the event would probably unleash an even worse backlash

They had airport style metal detectors set up already, but it was optional if you went through them