MC Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 After a blinding session out on the marsh on friday evening shooting 2 canada's and 4 greylag, all of which were retrieved by Merlin my Springer spaniel He collapsed and started to have small fits. On the walk back to the car he never left my side which is unusual for him as there is always something more interesting around. When we got to the car he didn't want to get in the dog box. When I got home I openend the door of the car and opened his cage door, at this point he normally jumps out but he didn't. I lifted him out gently and put him down on the grass and he slumped into a heap. I picked him up and carried him to the bath to wash him off and when I laid him in the bath he started to shudder as if he was having a fit. I gently washed him to get the worst of the mud off him while Tracey phoned the emergency vet. I told them what had happened and they said to take him in there. I dried him off and wrapped him in a towel and we drove in to the vets. All the way there he was juddering but as we got there he began to come around. We took him in and they had a good look at him and did a few checks, wrapping him in some new clean blankets and using heatpads. They took his temperature which was 34 degrees C and it should be 38. His blood was also very low in glucose. After about 1/2 an hour they gave him some food with sugar in it and were warming him up with a hairdrier. We had been in there about an hour and he really came around and although still very cold he was a lot better. His glucose levels were back up to normal. All in all a very scary evening as I didn't know what was wrong with him and he couldn't tell me. I stayed up most of the night with him feeding him a small ammount every couple of hours as the vet instructed and he bounced back to his usual self by the morning. I now need to carry some sweet things for him to eat while we are out on the marsh to keep his levels up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 does this mean his is diabetic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 MC glad the little chap is feeling better, a Goose is a big haul even for a Lab, one of my brace sunday was a 14 pounder! and last year Astra had the sense to turn round an drag a Canada through the mud it was just so heavy, having seen them together I know she is bigger than Merlin so you know the sort of effort required, am sure NTTF will be able to advise, I have herd of it before and funny thing is there seems to be no warning they are about to run out of steam, they literally give their all. Hope it did not detract to much from a cracking night, well done big fella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jef Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 I've read about this in a mag recently. I think there is a University somewhere or Professor wanting to hear from anyone this happens to. Sure I also read that a Mars Bar can help if this happens. Apparently no signs before it happens and can recover just as quick. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 The vet did recomend a mars bar with the chocolate removed but that seems like a messy thing to carry. The other thing she said was to carry a small pot of jam or honey so if it happens again I can rub it on his gums. The vet didn't mention being diabetic she just said he was low on glucose, which led to him getting cold. H took several hours to recover properly but he is back to his usual self now. My mate who I was out with said, You carry 6 adults through that mud and see how you feel. Which I suppose he is right, the little fella did have a lot to do on that night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_commoner Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 i am no expert at all but i think i have read somewhere that this is not a unusual occurence in gundogs after a fairly hard days work as said i am sure i read / heard somewhere glucose tablets / mars bars should be on hand in case it happens we used to have a sheepdog that used to do it after working hard, for years we used to think it was epilepsy or something similar as she always recovered fairly quickly afterwards anyways must have been a shocker glad all is well and he is better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingmike Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 As already said, there's some vet professor type chap who wants to hear from people who's dogs suffer with this. There's been loads written in the magazines over the last 2 years or so. Maybe worth e-mailing sporting gun or the BASC gundog section to see if they can point you in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbithunter2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Get some glucose powder from boots and mix it with water before you go out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Adrenelin overload. I had a Lab that sometimes used to go stiff as a board after a hard days work. Looked like he was having a fit/heart attack. The vet used to give him a shot to help disperse the adrenelin. It’s like an athlete, they get similar problems. De-hydration could also be a problem, gives the staggers and dog appears drunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballymac Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Marathon runners are known to eat jelly babies, full of energy and no fat apparently, I wonder would they help in keeping stamina up in a dog? Would be easier to carry than a 'peeled' mars bar. Plus if you feel a little tired you could have one or two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stiv24 Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 MC Two dogs on our shoot had the same problem last season. The advise we were given was the same as you have been told - increase the sugar levels asap. Mars bars work but try to get the chocolate off of one and get a fitting dog to eat it is near on impossible. The easy way is to carry a couple of capsules of glucoburst gel in your pocket or car. This can be rubbed on the gums and squeezed into the throat, I hope the link works. http://www.glucoburst.com/glucose-gel.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jef Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 (edited) Is it just the case that the dog is enjoying it so much it doesn't know when to stop?? James Taken from gundog club library "A lot of attention has been given recently to dogs which collapse on shoot days. The main cause is thought to be low blood sugar and dogs usually respond quickly to sugar. Feeding your dog a Mars bar at lunchtime is probably not the best way to deal with the problem. It is better to adopt a feeding regime which doesn’t leave the dog with no reserves by mid-afternoon. Tradition dictates once a day feeding but many dogs will cope better if fed two smaller meals. This may mean a very early feed to ensure they have 2hours to digest before working. Ensuring dogs are fit also helps and dogs which collapse more than once in a season should be examined by a vet in case they have underlying heart or metabolic problems." Edited October 6, 2008 by jef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stiv24 Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 I have just spoken to our vet. She said the same thing as jef's post. The glucose gel is only for the first aid kit and not to be relied upon to maintain blood sugars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 (edited) Thanks guys, Merlin is fed a good quality working dog mix twice a day, Looking back I think the problem here was A) he had been fed in the morning but not before we went out in the evening and he worked incredibly hard retrieving the 6 geese something that doesn't normally happen. I will get some glucose gel for the first aid kit and carry some treats for him as I don't want to him have to go through that again or me for that matter. Edited October 6, 2008 by MC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game_boy Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Poor wee chap, not nice at all. Hope you manage to control it. You'll have to shoot smaller geese next time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallarben Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 use to have a friend who use to carry some stuff in cubes that gave the dogs energy he use to give them a piece in a morning and a piece at lunch seemed to do the trick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-a-s Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 i always keep a packet of glucose tabs in the door pocket of the landie and if my lurcher has been having a busy night i will give her 1 to munch on in between slips.she would run untill she dropped if i let her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver_pigeon Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 So glad to hear that Merlin is ok....bless him, he must've worked so hard! I've heard of gun dogs being given glucose supplement after a field reaction like you described! And it being likened to marathon runners is a good explanation as their muscle structure and lactic acid production is almost the same! Good luck with managing Merlin's glucose, and you are so lucky to have a dog that works his heart to the max for you! Typical springer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Thanks to everyone for their support and good advice. I will ensure that I always carry some glucose gel and some food to keep him going when we are out. The jelly babies seem like a very good idea and a lot less messy than a peeled mars bar. I will also get some glucose tablets. Merlin is fighting fit now and fully back to his normal self. We are not out again until sunday evening and that is on my flight pond so he won't be working anywhere near as hard. Cheers Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 A squirt bottle filled with Lucozade will do you, too, and is easier to get the dog to partake of on a shoot or in the hide. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Glad it seems to have passed its scary as anything when it happens, as said with working dogs its usually down to sugar levels going too low but a lot seems to be unexplained. A mate of mines springer has had a habbit of just collapsing and £700 later after very test they could do he was no wiser she would do it on walks as well as on a shoot day, strangely enough the only thing that has stopped it is putting her on a cheaper brand of dog food which I assume is probably more packed with sugar and quite possibly salt. Be careful about pumping them too much with pure forms of sugar as you could get a diabetes problem. Best option is small amounts of food before and if you can get a pause while out and save the pure forms of sugar for emergencies. Fingers crossed it doesn't happen again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 That is exactly what I will do, the vets advice was to take some food with me when I go out and feed him as a treat when he does a retrieve. I will carry the sugary glucose gel and some jelly babies as a emergency/ last resort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 glad to hear your dogs doing ok MC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 I have seen this happen and it's not nice, you have the solution now; ensuring the dog has something in his stomach to burn off and some quick fix gel to get his blood sugar up - the consensus amongst vets is low blood sugar, cold and hard work all conspiring to overload the dog resulting the collapse/fit. Glad to hear your dog's ok, something else to think about if you are doing a lot of water work with your spaniel would be a neoprene vest, one example here but there are plenty on the market: http://www.gearandgundogs.com/site/product.php?id=83 If guys are using them on labs then there's no shame in having one on a springer. ATB WGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 MC, Glad to hear Merlin is OK now. Just in case I suffer with a similar thing, I ALWAYS eat a bacon roll and drink lots of tea when I am shooting !!! LV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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