israel

[seisobs]

Ok, lets close this subject down please, After all this is mainly a sporting forum.

 

A final word before we end this subject:

 

These troubles have been going on for years and years and years. It will never stop full stop

 

End of subject, th th thats all folks!

[Ozzy Fudd]

one thing though. relating to lb's post to santlache, im not anti semitic or pro semetic (if that word exists). having simply lived through the troubles and seen things no one should ever have to, i would prefer to see every single terrorist in this world either double tapped or blown up making their own bombs.

 

as the palestinians strap bombs to kids (among many other inhumanities), theyre the designated terrorists in this one (to me anyway). perhaps we should be focusing less on the ideals and reasons of this war, and more on the actions of the two combatants?

 

ps - koz, you mentioned the palestinians have tunnels to egypt and syria. if they can bring weapons through them, why cant they bring food and medicine?

[kdubya]

They get the parts from Egypt and Syria to make their crude rockets, which have no accuracy or delivery system.

 

Now ask where Israel get all their kit from ?

 

All the F15's and F16's, Cobras and Black Hawks, all the tanks and weaponry which they are using against a people with little more than a few explosive fireworks.

 

I wonder what the Palestinians think when picking amongst the rubble that was once their home, when they find parts of the Israeli missile which tore it apart and it has "Lockheed/Boeing, Made in Florida USA" written all over it ?

 

One needs to look no further for the birthplace of 9/11 and the propaganda the extremists gained from such things.

 

 

once again the point is totally missed, and to be perfectly blunt either missed deliberately through the old adage don't let facts cloud the issue or through pure bigotry? IE like it or not anti semitism / Zionism / as the question was how come they can get weapons through but cant seemingly for the life of them get humanitarian aid, surely those same tunnels are capable of allowing aid? Egypt has offered, Jordan has offered Christ even Israel has offered! but no all these stone age minds want is arms, and a continuance of the carnage that THEY thrive on, remember without it there would be no hamas, no jihad, nothing, so minds would not be numbed and clouded by scum that preach and convert kids to the evil

that radicalism is,

 

oh and they are not crude rockets either they are standard military issue grads with a range of about 20k made in surprise surprise IRAN yet another festering sore of a land, shame the same Iranian govt can not supply humanitarian aid, but again they don't really want to do they, then again as long as they have sympathisers ( plenty on here) they don't really need to as peace does not ratchet up their "cause" which it seems you have fallen for "hook line and sinker"

 

cheers KW

[Guest]

"IE like it or not anti semitism / Zionism / as the question was how come they can get weapons through but cant seemingly for the life of them get humanitarian aid, surely those same tunnels are capable of allowing aid? Egypt has offered, Jordan has offered Christ even Israel has offered! but no all these stone age minds want is arms, and a continuance of the carnage that THEY thrive on, remember without it there would be no hamas, no jihad, nothing, so minds would not be numbed and clouded by scum that preach and convert kids to the evil"

 

Sorry but that is a load of tripe, the Israelis denied them humanitarian aid and closed the borders. Look at news articles in June to see that Gaza was facing starvation then and the rocket attacks probably strate because gazans had no choice, go to war or starve, since the international community doesn't care about Gaza. The Hamas leadership doesn't want to bring food through the tunnels since that would make Gazan conditions better therefore Hamas would lose support, Hamas feed on misery and vengeance, but at the same time you have to know when you have to fight the Zionist imperialists.

[Santlache]

OK, lets look at it this way.

 

You have tunnels which secretly link you to Egypt that the Israelis know about but are not certain where they are.

 

What do you do ?

 

Ship maybe a ton of arms through it so you can fight back against the daily incursions and murder being committed by the Israelis against your democratically elected government, and who are also trying to starve you and turn Gaza into a new Warsaw Ghetto with their collective punishment ?

 

Or do you ship through 100 tons of food and aid, which will mean your tunnels get discovered even though that 100 tons of aid is clearly not enough to even feed even a 10th of the population ?

 

Israel are the terrorists, their nation was founded on terrorism.

 

Or have you forgotten the British and countless other lives which were lost through Zionist terrorism as they bullied their way to nationhood ?

[Ozzy Fudd]

OK, lets look at it this way.

 

You have tunnels which secretly link you to Egypt that the Israelis know about but are not certain where they are.

 

What do you do ?

 

Ship maybe a ton of arms through it so you can fight back against the daily incursions and murder being committed by the Israelis against your democratically elected government, and who are also trying to starve you and turn Gaza into a new Warsaw Ghetto with their collective punishment ?

 

Or do you ship through 100 tons of food and aid, which will mean your tunnels get discovered even though that 100 tons of aid is clearly not enough to even feed even a 10th of the population ?

 

Israel are the terrorists, their nation was founded on terrorism.

 

Or have you forgotten the British and countless other lives which were lost through Zionist terrorism as they bullied their way to nationhood ?

 

if the tunnels dont get discovered by shipping weapons through, whats the difference if they use it for food and aid? and theyre not using the weapons for defence, theyre launching missiles into israel! and no, i havnt forgotten about israel's turbulant roots, but what country hasnt had a turbulant past? very few if you look at them.

 

heres a question. ok, we abandon israel, leave them to their fate and they get wiped out (assuming they dont start ww3 by launching their nukes). what are all those mad mullah's and suicide bombers going to do then? turn around and say "oh, israels dead, we won. lets all go home and be goat farmers"??

 

i severely doubt it. it would be "israels dead, we won thanks to allah, now lets go after the true enemy, the western devils". so, as cynical as this sounds, which is better? supporting israel and keeping the attention of those mad men on it, and mostly away from us? or throwing israel to the wolves to appease them? (if youve ever read world war z, this is on the same lines as the redeker plan...)

 

maybe we should be grateful for israel bearing the brunt of islamic hatred. if they didnt, who would?

[kdubya]

"IE like it or not anti semitism / Zionism / as the question was how come they can get weapons through but cant seemingly for the life of them get humanitarian aid, surely those same tunnels are capable of allowing aid? Egypt has offered, Jordan has offered Christ even Israel has offered! but no all these stone age minds want is arms, and a continuance of the carnage that THEY thrive on, remember without it there would be no hamas, no jihad, nothing, so minds would not be numbed and clouded by scum that preach and convert kids to the evil"

 

Sorry but that is a load of tripe, the Israelis denied them humanitarian aid and closed the borders. Look at news articles in June to see that Gaza was facing starvation then and the rocket attacks probably strate because gazans had no choice, go to war or starve, since the international community doesn't care about Gaza. The Hamas leadership doesn't want to bring food through the tunnels since that would make Gazan conditions better therefore Hamas would lose support, Hamas feed on misery and vengeance, but at the same time you have to know when you have to fight the Zionist imperialists.

 

 

sorry its you who are talking tripe lord you even admit it? this is what HAMAS you know those ELECTED to represent Gaza

have been doing all year! yet as said they can gladly accept non piece offerings ie rockets.

 

Hamas's Finance Ministry on Monday barred Israeli fruits and vegetables from entering the Gaza Strip... The Hamas decision will also make it harder for Palestinians to keep fruits and vegetables in their diet, particularly those items not grown in Gaza... Upon hearing that Palestinian private contractors on the Gaza side of the Kerem Shalom crossing planned to adhere to the prohibition, Israeli businessmen did not send out the scheduled 60 trucks of produce... The fruit and vegetable ban is the latest in a set of anti-Israel moves by Hamas, including continued mortar fire on the crossing, to keep Kerem Shalom closed. On Saturday, Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum said, "We are against opening the Zionist-controlled crossing of Kerem Shalom."

 

Hamas has actually been stopping Israeli humanitarian assistance at all the crossings. In June they set up roadblocks to block ambulances from evacuating people murdered during their "we were elected so we're going to take power" rout of Fatah. Last week they actually threatened to mow down Palestinians trying to return to their families through the Kerem Shalom crossing:

In an effort to allow the stranded Palestinians to return home, the IDF recently offered to Egypt to open the Kerem Shalom crossing - which connects Israel, Gaza and Egypt - to pedestrian travel. Egypt contacted Hamas and, according to Israeli officials, was told that if Kerem Shalom was opened they would attack the crossing with mortars and gunfire, even at the price of killing thousands of Palestinians. Israel immediately canceled the plans and is waiting to see if Egypt succeeds in convincing Hamas to allow Kerem Shalom to be used to help the stranded Palestinians.

 

 

cheers KW

[dustyfox]

Im supporting Israel

 

Should America be handed back to the native Indians because the natives were well established before the european settlers arrived?

 

We should not back down to Terrorism, the Hamas supporters will soon realise that theres nothing to fight or die for.

 

Whether people like it or not Israel is staying and I am 100% behind them.

 

I am not reading or watching the news as they only tell ******** and not worth watching.

 

Df

[Santlache]

"If the tunnels dont get discovered by shipping weapons through, whats the difference if they use it for food and aid? and theyre not using the weapons for defence, theyre launching missiles into israel! and no, i havnt forgotten about israel's turbulant roots, but what country hasnt had a turbulant past? very few if you look at them."

 

The turbulent roots you mention are the root cause of all of this, the illegal occupation of land, the ethnic cleansing and the wall, all of which has been preached about for over 150 years by Zionists, primarily Chief Rabbi Kook (1865-1935) and Ze'ev Jabotinsky (1880-1940).

 

However, you continue to miss the point. The only legitimate inhabitants of Palestine are Palesinian Jews, Christians and Muslims. EuroJews are 'Ashkenazi' and therefore alien invaders. Simple as that.

 

The Zionists only brought bigotry and disruption with them and Palestinian Jews wanted little or nothing to do with Zionism. It was Zionists like Kook and Jabotinsky who are entirely responsible for turning Palestine into a killing ground.

 

Ashkenazim - go home to Europe, where you belong !

 

Kook's view, and indeed that of his later disciples who are now considered the extreme and religious right in Israel, is that peace is in mortal danger if you willingly return even an inch of stolen land to the Arabs. For Gaza and the recent actions, Sharon himself turned to Jabotinsky's Zionist principles, in that those outposts (settlements) which prove not to be viable, should be abandoned to strengthen those that are (West Bank).

 

Jabotinsky is the major intellectual influence on Israel's right-wing parties.

 

If I told you that one of his articles was called:

 

"On the Iron Wall - We and the Arabs"

 

You may have a idea where the present fence Israel is building comes from.

 

Jabotinsky preaches a no-agreement and no surrender Zionist attitude, the Arabs are to be worn down until no resistance groups exist.

 

"We must suspend our settlement efforts or continue them without paying attention to the mood of the natives. Settlement can thus develop under the protection of a force that is not dependent on the local population, behind an IRON WALL which they will be powerless to break down."

 

This has basically been Zionist policy since the turn of the century and remains so today under the current Israeli government.

 

It's flawed, all of it.

 

Zionism is flawed

 

The State of Israel was founded on terrorism. There was Arab toleration against the Jews until the arrival of Zionism and Jewish expansionist policies. Once they cease, Arab aggression will also likely cease.

[Ozzy Fudd]

The State of Israel was founded on terrorism. There was Arab toleration against the Jews until the arrival of Zionism and Jewish expansionist policies. Once they cease, Arab aggression will also likely cease.

 

doubt it, see my last post. if they didnt have israel to attack, we'd be in the firing line

 

so, how far back do you fo for illegal occupation? anyone with roman blood should be kicked back to italy? anyone with norman blood back to france? viking blood back to scandanavia?

 

australia for the aborigines, usa for the native americans, south america for the inca's (if theres any left)?

 

heck, all human life supposedly comes from africa, should we all be deported back there?

 

as i said before, the past is the past. concentrate on this war, the one happening at this precise moment in time, new years eve, 31/12/2008. concentrate on who is doing what, who is saying what, and then you will have the answer to who are the terrorists, and who we should be supporting

[henry d]

I wonder what the Palestinians think when picking amongst the rubble that was once their home, when they find parts of the Israeli missile which tore it apart and it has "Lockheed/Boeing, Made in Florida USA" written all over it ?

 

Not strictly true, as the 1 000lb bomb that tore a hole in HMS.Glasgow during the Falklands war had made in England stamped on it and it was definately an Argentinian, a Lt.Gavazzi.

 

So the arms are made in XX it doesn`t follow they were sent by the government of XX.

 

Thanks for keeping it nice.............ish.

[Santlache]

"so, how far back do you fo for illegal occupation? anyone with roman blood should be kicked back to italy? anyone with norman blood back to france? viking blood back to scandanavia?

 

australia for the aborigines, usa for the native americans, south america for the inca's (if theres any left)?

 

heck, all human life supposedly comes from africa, should we all be deported back there?"

 

You answer the question yourself.

 

The principles of Zionism is that they are God's Chosen people who are returning to the land that is rightfully theirs.

 

However, in between them being in control of that land over 2000 years ago it has had several dozen different groups ruling it, from the Romans, the Turks, the Syrians, the Egyptians, even the European Crusaders at one point.

 

If you want to get deeper on the subject, the best and most tolerant custodians of the important sites in the Holy Land throughout history are in fact the Muslims, who have generally allowed Jews and Christians access to it without persecution.

 

So what gives the Jews the right to it now over the indigenous population ?

 

Biblical history ?

 

They have no right to it whatsoever, so they committed terrorism and ethnic cleansing in order to make it theirs again, ******* in the face of human rights and the Geneva Convention which they are still doing today.

 

Roads for Jews only - how very Nazi-like as they bulldoze Palestinian homes to make way for it.

 

What next, a Crescent badge to be worn by all Muslims ?

Edited December 31, 2008 by Santlache

[Ozzy Fudd]

"so, how far back do you fo for illegal occupation? anyone with roman blood should be kicked back to italy? anyone with norman blood back to france? viking blood back to scandanavia?

 

australia for the aborigines, usa for the native americans, south america for the inca's (if theres any left)?

 

heck, all human life supposedly comes from africa, should we all be deported back there?"

 

You answer the question yourself.

 

The principles of Zionism is that they are God's Chosen people who are returning to the land that is rightfully theirs.

 

However, in between them being in control of that land over 2000 years ago it has had several dozen different groups ruling it, from the Romans, the Turks, the Syrians, the Egyptians, even the European Crusaders at one point.

 

If you want to get deeper on the subject, the best and most tolerant custodians of the important sites in the Holy Land throughout history are in fact the Muslims, who have generally allowed Jews and Christians access to it without persecution.

 

So what gives the Jews the right to it now over the indigenous population ?

 

Biblical history ?

 

They have no right to it whatsoever, so they committed terrorism and ethnic cleansing in order to make it theirs again, ******* in the face of human rights and the Geneva Convention which they are still doing today.

 

Roads for Jews only - how very Nazi-like as they bulldoze Palestinian homes to make way for it.

 

What next, a Crescent badge to be worn by all Muslims ?

 

 

na, just a target symbol would be sufficient....

 

and thats a joke before i get hammered.

 

so ur saying that because muslims make better caretakers, they should own israel?? ok, im a better shot than my mate, i should own his guns then! :blink:

 

youre very one sided mate. do you think the palestinians stick to the geneva convention if they get an israeli soldier? they generally make the ira look like the type of terrorist who gives you a cup of cocoa and fluffy slippers before asking you a few questions in front of a nice log fire with some biscuits!

 

also, i note that you conveniently left out my last paragraph, which is the most important

 

*******

as i said before, the past is the past. concentrate on this war, the one happening at this precise moment in time, new years eve, 31/12/2008. concentrate on who is doing what, who is saying what, and then you will have the answer to who are the terrorists, and who we should be supporting

 

*******

 

wanna try that??

[alison]

Still at it.I see there are a few more sensible people taking part in this discussion,but the bigoted hate mongers are still here.It appears that you heroes are not getting it all your own way,I suppose one woman on her own was easy pickings.

 

One guy has told us all a very sad story about a child getting onto a bus with a bomb and blowing it up.This,no one can deny, was a vile act which no right thinking person could condone.It is savagery at its extreme. Unfortunately this same poster then claims that these Palestinians are not human,maybe this is his way of justifying the mass extermination of that nation. One murder does not give you or anyone else the right to murder. One terrorist act must not be answered with another terrorist act and then stand up and try and justify it. This is the road to disaster.

 

Baby,you appear to be quite bigoted towards all who disagree with your conception of history and you want us all to start mankind from today. What type of society would you envisage?kill all who is not of your opinion and everything would be rosy?.That would only work for a short time then some of your friends might disagree with you,then the **** would hit the fan. I am dismayed at you especially coming from N.Ireland,have you not seen enough carnage this last thirty odd years?3000+ dead and for what?. So that the Chuckle brothers can eat big feeds and clap each other on the back while your job is in the balance?. And you can support the carnage and murder in Palestine?. I will not be selective in my condemnation of any murder no matter who commits it. Can you say the same? Were the Shankill butchers not as bad as the Shankill bomber? Was the murder of the workmen outside Markethill not as bad as the murder of the Miami showband by the UDR? Do not be selective if you want any credit. You flippantly say you take your instruction from the main man maybe if you lived by the ten commandments it would serve you better,remember the 5th?.

The problems in Palatine will never be corrected until all mankind realize that murder is not the answer. I'm afraid that by the attitude portrayed by some of you this will be quite some time.

[dazza]

Still at it.I see there are a few more sensible people taking part in this discussion,but the bigoted hate mongers are still here.It appears that you heroes are not getting it all your own way,I suppose one woman on her own was easy pickings.

 

One guy has told us all a very sad story about a child getting onto a bus with a bomb and blowing it up.This,no one can deny, was a vile act which no right thinking person could condone.It is savagery at its extreme. Unfortunately this same poster then claims that these Palestinians are not human,maybe this is his way of justifying the mass extermination of that nation. One murder does not give you or anyone else the right to murder. One terrorist act must not be answered with another terrorist act and then stand up and try and justify it. This is the road to disaster.

 

Baby,you appear to be quite bigoted towards all who disagree with your conception of history and you want us all to start mankind from today. What type of society would you envisage?kill all who is not of your opinion and everything would be rosy?.That would only work for a short time then some of your friends might disagree with you,then the **** would hit the fan. I am dismayed at you especially coming from N.Ireland,have you not seen enough carnage this last thirty odd years?3000+ dead and for what?. So that the Chuckle brothers can eat big feeds and clap each other on the back while your job is in the balance?. And you can support the carnage and murder in Palestine?. I will not be selective in my condemnation of any murder no matter who commits it. Can you say the same? Were the Shankill butchers not as bad as the Shankill bomber? Was the murder of the workmen outside Markethill not as bad as the murder of the Miami showband by the UDR? Do not be selective if you want any credit. You flippantly say you take your instruction from the main man maybe if you lived by the ten commandments it would serve you better,remember the 5th?.

The problems in Palatine will never be corrected until all mankind realize that murder is not the answer. I'm afraid that by the attitude portrayed by some of you this will be quite some time.

 

 

The Miami Show Band where shot by the UVF dressed as UDR soldiers. Try and get your facts right.

[Jonno243]

What next, a Crescent badge to be worn by all Muslims ?

 

From the UN article "WORLD CONFERENCE AGAINST RACISM RISKS FAILURE WITHOUT SPIRIT OF COMPROMISE, NORWAY WARNS, UNDPI press release, RD/D/25, 3 September 2001":

 

"One (Israeli) minister described the Palestinians as serpents, and said they reproduced like ants. Another one proposed that Palestinians in Israel be marked with yellow cards"

 

 

But I digress,

 

If the Palestinians (be they Hamas / PLO or any of the rest) had been supplied with the equivalent of $7M per day in aid, would they be throwing rockets? Or would they be using up-to-date F-15 and F-16 bombers, cutting edge Main Battle Tanks and all the latest hardware?

 

If the latter was true, would it then be classed as terrorism, or would it be a legitimate struggle against an occupying force?

 

 

Please do not misunderstand me here, I am in NO way condoning the actions of Hamas in the indiscriminate rocket attacks on Israel, but I similarly cannot condone Israel's heavy handed response. As I see it Hamas are guilty of terrorist attacks on Israel; Israel is guilty of exactly the same thing against the people of Palestine.

[Harnser]

Alison ,

Can you please find another forum to peddle your bleeding heart liberalisim on ,or maybe post on shooting matters , i for one have just about had enough of your rantings .

Harnser .

[tosspot]

Alison ,

Can you please find another forum to peddle your bleeding heart liberalisim on ,or maybe post on shooting matters , i for one have just about had enough of your rantings .

Harnser .

 

 

Would it not now be so ironic if Alison was a shed fanatic!

[kdubya]

for those who seemingly support terrorism and denounce the right to defend one's own, try a little light reading, get hold of a book called "the new jackals" by simon reeve, then take your biggoted blinkers off.

 

cheers KW

[Ozzy Fudd]

Still at it.I see there are a few more sensible people taking part in this discussion,but the bigoted hate mongers are still here.It appears that you heroes are not getting it all your own way,I suppose one woman on her own was easy pickings.

 

One guy has told us all a very sad story about a child getting onto a bus with a bomb and blowing it up.This,no one can deny, was a vile act which no right thinking person could condone.It is savagery at its extreme. Unfortunately this same poster then claims that these Palestinians are not human,maybe this is his way of justifying the mass extermination of that nation. One murder does not give you or anyone else the right to murder. One terrorist act must not be answered with another terrorist act and then stand up and try and justify it. This is the road to disaster.

 

Baby,you appear to be quite bigoted towards all who disagree with your conception of history and you want us all to start mankind from today. What type of society would you envisage?kill all who is not of your opinion and everything would be rosy?.That would only work for a short time then some of your friends might disagree with you,then the **** would hit the fan. I am dismayed at you especially coming from N.Ireland,have you not seen enough carnage this last thirty odd years?3000+ dead and for what?. So that the Chuckle brothers can eat big feeds and clap each other on the back while your job is in the balance?. And you can support the carnage and murder in Palestine?. I will not be selective in my condemnation of any murder no matter who commits it. Can you say the same? Were the Shankill butchers not as bad as the Shankill bomber? Was the murder of the workmen outside Markethill not as bad as the murder of the Miami showband by the UDR? Do not be selective if you want any credit. You flippantly say you take your instruction from the main man maybe if you lived by the ten commandments it would serve you better,remember the 5th?.

The problems in Palatine will never be corrected until all mankind realize that murder is not the answer. I'm afraid that by the attitude portrayed by some of you this will be quite some time.

 

dont try to even talk to me about the kingsmill massacre. im from markethill. you havnt even got a clue, who ever you are. id love to see you walk into a pub in markethill and start spouting this ****, to people who have lived through terrorism, to people who had friends and family shot in their beds or in front of their children. id give you, oh, about 5 minutes before you got a bottle in your face. and thats if you walk into one of the quieter pubs.

 

will i be selective in my condemnation of murder? yes, i will. murder is walking into a school and shooting a teacher at point blank range in the head, in front of a class of 4 year olds, because he was a part time member of the security forces. murder is walking up to a man washing his car and shooting him in front of his family because he is catholic. what is NOT murder, is killing someone who is armed and is hiding behind a mask, as they attempt to kill someone else. that is terrorism, and they all deserve to die.

 

and only for the soldiers who you earlier slated, there would have been 30,000, or even 300,000 dead, not 3,000.

 

ps - yes i am flippant about god. i would refer to him as the big sky fairy, as someone else did on here, but that doesnt portray the insidious darkness that is inherent in organised religion. so keep it coming alison, tho i have to warn you, ive only got about 5 mins of lunatic baiting time left today...

[dustyfox]

Israel has had its day lets move onto Iraq

[Ozzy Fudd]

Israel has had its day lets move onto Iraq

 

we gonna just nuke them too then??

[henry d]

Going nowhere and getting personal, it is now closed.