Drop Your Weapons.

[chippy18]

Was out Thursday evening with the Landowners Son, when we heard a load of sirens and then the field we was in was like daylight. Helicopter shinning their light at us and all the sirens we had heard were heading down the private lane towards us. Had someone scream at us armed police throw down your weapons, well by now we had worked out what was happening, but we refused due to the fact that the ground was just mud to 'throw our weapons down'. Both i and my mate clearly told them we was licensed to carry firearms and that we had permission to be shooting on the land and that my mate was in fact the landowners son. We both said that we would open our bolts and unload and clearly show that our guns were unloaded but would not throw them to the the ground. We was then told to lay on our stomachs with our hands interlocked and our guns in full view, which is one hell of a feat to hold our rifles with the bolts open and also have our hands behind our heads.

 

Well to cut a long story short we manage to convince them that two men in green clothing with guns was not really uncommon on a farm and eventually someone had the common sense to to check us out. Now before someone brings it up, I know in this day and age that the police have a hard job and it could be some idiot with a gun, but i think this was over the top. We offered to show safe guns, we was on a farm not in the middle of a populated area.

One Helicopter 3 police cars plus an ARV, oh i almost forgot a funny looking little car that said Community Support Officer with two of the heavy mob in.

 

Still probably a quite night and it wouldn't have cost that much for them to come check us out and we never did get a straight answer when we asked why the had decided that Thursday was the night to swoop down on us even though I shoot there a couple of evenings a week and have never had any bother.

 

Cheers

[petrol_head29]

gutted m8, another example of police ignorance, and befor i get slated for saying that i also no someone close to me who has had this happen in there own garden in the middle of an estate, they did get a full appolagy from there fire arms officer

[J@mes]

You could have been "do as you likeys" with guns too:hmm:

[libs]

You are far to materialistic(sp) by the sounds of things.

 

If I was told to put down anything by gun weilding plods, then there is no way I would answer back, A pair of Purdy's would get slung if they shouted loud enough.

[Ferret Master]

You are braver than me.

 

People have been shot for alot less.

 

FM

[Blunderbuss]

Did you get an apology? Put in a formal complaint, write to your local paper and tell BASC.

[col s10]

You could have been "do as you likeys" with guns too:hmm:

:blink:

[Frenchieboy]

Million dollar question is did they say why they had been called to check you out in the first place?

[Zapp]

Im surprised you didnt get shot.

 

If an armed copper tells me to put my gun down, I'm putting it down. I'll worry about a bit of mud and whether they are right or wrong later.

 

ZB

[CharlieT]

Right, I don't normally get involved in threads on this subject but this sort of nonsense is happening all to frequently.

 

My take is that it is the job of the police, as public servants, to uphold the law and protect the citizens of this country. Policing works by consent, that is working with the help and goodwill of the populace. Policing does not work when goodwill is lost and sections of the community feel alienated. It seems to me that more and more these rude uncaring bully boy techniques are being used when dealing with the average Joe Public where everyone is classed as a law breaker until proven innocent.

 

For goodness sake, how many armed bank robbers, aspiring terrorists or inner city drug dealers dress up in tweeds or cammo and sit in a field with a load of plastic pigeons or drive round a field in the dead of night shining a million candle power light before heading off to their nearest Barclays bank or vice den to go about their unlawful deeds.

 

It really is about time the police were given some training in how to act and deal with such matters in a pleasant

and courteous manner.

 

I am pleased to see that BASC are on the ball and have recently started issuing the police with information packs and are rolling out a scheme where they are holding training days where the police will be given an insight into shooting and what it entails.

 

Educating the police is the way forward but I fear Chief Constables bear most of the responsibility for the attitude of their rank and file officers as leadership comes from the top. We should all write to our Chief Constable outlining our concerns, requesting that their officers on the ground be given better training when dealing with members of the shooting community and that they be made aware of how law abiding citizens go about their pastime of recreational shooting in the countryside.

[jonevo]

Ok this was over the top,sounds like you had a raw deal

 

but

 

I always phone the Police control room,in whatever area That I am going to be shooting in,wether it be day or night time, informing them the following details and ask them to create a LOG.

 

a.who I am giving them my name

b,the land I will be shooting on

c. the times I will be shooting from and ending at

d.When I have finished shooting, I phone them back with the log number they have provided, asking them to close the log.

 

I know this sounds daft, but it ensures that the police know that you are there, legally shooting and ensures your safety if an ARV is called due to gun shots going off in that area.

 

 

common sense and shooting safely is my priority and a phone call will save your life,if you follow the above procedure.

[Lancs Lad]

Why do people who think that because we have a licence and have permission that we have the right to start to question or to "argue" the toss with what an armed police office is telling you.

 

You can argue the toss once they have made you "secure" and not a threat, people have been shot for a lot less by armed officers because they have thought that their lives are in danger...

 

Remember the bloke with a chair leg in scotland.....

 

Ok, we are not going to "throw down our weapons". but you can certainly hold them out to the side arms outstretced and slowly put them to the floor.

 

So what if the grounds muddy, thats why you have a cleaning kit.

 

I have been stopped on a few occasions by the police, and as I see them comming I make it VERY clear that I am putting down my "weapon". I then move far enough away from it not to be considered a threat whilst making it obvious that I have nothing else in my hands - arms out etc.

 

By the time they are "out of the wagon" Im usualy out of the way.

 

If you were "lit up" then why didnt common sense prevail, it would have been quite obvious that the boys in nomex will be upon you fairly quickly and you could have acted accordingly?.

 

You were happy to get down on the ground but not happy to put your gun down on it.............

 

 

Come one people..............................THINK.

[Mungler]

Why do people who think that because we have a licence and have permission that we have the right to start to question or to "argue" the toss with what an armed police office is telling you.

 

You can argue the toss once they have made you "secure" and not a threat, people have been shot for a lot less by armed officers because they have thought that their lives are in danger...

 

Remember the bloke with a chair leg in scotland.....

 

Ok, we are not going to "throw down our weapons". but you can certainly hold them out to the side arms outstretced and slowly put them to the floor.

 

So what if the grounds muddy, thats why you have a cleaning kit.

 

I have been stopped on a few occasions by the police, and as I see them comming I make it VERY clear that I am putting down my "weapon". I then move far enough away from it not to be considered a threat whilst making it obvious that I have nothing else in my hands - arms out etc.

 

By the time they are "out of the wagon" Im usualy out of the way.

 

If you were "lit up" then why didnt common sense prevail, it would have been quite obvious that the boys in nomex will be upon you fairly quickly and you could have acted accordingly?.

 

You were happy to get down on the ground but not happy to put your gun down on it.............

 

 

Come one people..............................THINK.

 

 

 

 

 

So your telling me that if I disobey the police I am liable to being shot, end of. Even if I am dressed in tweeds, lawfully on private land and surrounded by decoys?

 

Heil Hitler.

 

I thought I lived in a free country. I also didn't realise that because the police carry guns they can ignore what is and what is not lawful and generally please themselves and shoot anyone who doesn't do as they ask.

 

EDIT:

 

How about the police spend a little time reading the BASC flyers and getting to understand what can lawfully happen in the Countryside and with shotguns. Oh no, that would be too much - it's much better for plod to storm in, guns out and start shouting the odds to people minding their own lawful business.

Edited September 5, 2009 by Mungler

[Lancs Lad]

Out of context Mung.

 

This was in the dark.......................or Im assuming so by the heli using its night sun...

 

 

But if you were wearing your hitler youth shirt and funny tash, Id pop a cap in you......

 

 

As ive said before mate, Ive been "visited" during the day and just done the same thing, I couldnt care less where I was on my land, if a police officers tells you to put down your gun down then just do it. You can then have your conversation with them once they are secure and your weapon has been secured.

[Mungler]

if a police officers tells you to put down your gun down then just do it

 

 

 

So, someone with a uniform and a gun tells you to jump and your only answer is "How high?"

 

I don't mean to be rude but you should think a bit more about your civil liberties.

 

You wouldn't have lasted long in Poland, Germany, Czechoslovachia.....

Edited September 5, 2009 by Mungler

[Lancs Lad]

Civil liberties can be discussed once the man in uniform is happy that I am no longer a threat.

 

That is the whole point that Im trying to make mung.

 

Mr police man tells you to put down your gun, you start to say no and gobbing off, the incident escalates, tensions start to rise and then it all kicks off and you end up on a gurney.

 

 

Or

 

Mr Police man tells you to put down your gun. You put it down, the incident is made secure, then you can start to inform mr officer of your permission and your rights to be there. Incident goes down without any "issues" and you may then offer your words of wisdom to the officer accordingly.

[Mungler]

But that's where we started.

 

Putting down your gun down or making is safe is one thing, throwing it down into the mud is another.

Edited September 5, 2009 by Mungler

[Lancs Lad]

I wouldnt "throw" a gun down mate, more than likely for it to go off.

 

Arms out wide, held with hand on forend and lay it on the ground.

 

Again you could argue the toss with the officer at the end, ie - officer, its best to say lay your gun down instead of "throw down your guns" as this would prevent an accidental discharge.

[mallet]

I've done live armed before and Police have rules of engagement as does any person in authority carrying a weapon. It is last resort for them to use thier firearms and therefore should be carried and used in that manner. They only see GUN when they see someone out shooting they don't want to put thier own lives at risk (Understandable). Education is the key to this. The police need the educating!!!!!!!. They are getting too much like America cops fire first ask questions second.

[CharlieT]

LL

 

I don't think anyone object to the police investigating a report of "someone with a gun", however I would imagine everyone objects to being treated with no civility whatsoever. Being barked at and being shown no respect by someone who's wages I pay and who's sole task is to look after my well being is quite frankly not good enough. Manners cost nothing, nor does a little common sense and I am sorry to say these virtues seem to be somewhat lacking when the police approach sporting shooters.

The policeman's lot in life is to meet and deal with the public, surely the ability to converse with us in a civil way should be a requisite of the job.

There is no excuse or reason for Statsi style policing in this country let alone countryside and it should not be tolerated.

Civil liberties are what made this country great and their erosion by the elected government is bad enough but their erosion by unelected bad manerd, bully boy police officers is just not on and should be stamped out every time such infringements rear their ugly head.

[Mungler]

Here here

[apache]

I do agree it is ignorant for the police to treat you how they did, but what's the alternative? What of you were up to no good? Send a patrol car and a bobby with a truncheon? He could be shot. If people report a firearms incident they have to attend armed and assume you are going to shoot them. Even with a shotgun you could pepper them with shot well before you could talk to them!

 

Not nice but necessary.

 

There was a lot of media coverage when Jean Charles de Menezes was shot as a suspected terrorist - he ran from armed police! If you run from armed police they have every right to shoot you. If they tell you to put your guns down and you don't - best of luck to you!

[CharlieT]

If you run from armed police they have every right to shoot you. If they tell you to put your guns down and you don't - best of luck to you!

 

You must be joking...........

[Mungler]

I do agree it is ignorant for the police to treat you how they did, but what's the alternative? What of you were up to no good? Send a patrol car and a bobby with a truncheon? He could be shot. If people report a firearms incident they have to attend armed and assume you are going to shoot them. Even with a shotgun you could pepper them with shot well before you could talk to them!

 

Not nice but necessary.

 

There was a lot of media coverage when Jean Charles de Menezes was shot as a suspected terrorist - he ran from armed police! If you run from armed police they have every right to shoot you. If they tell you to put your guns down and you don't - best of luck to you!

 

 

 

Eh? Where have you been living? Jean Charles de Menezes didn't run from the police, he was shot dead where he was sitting on the tube train. I guessed you missed that bit of the public enquiry?

 

Also, standing in a field, in the countryside, with a shotgun a dog and decoys : which bit of any of this gives rise to a presumption of criminal activity?

[Imperfection]

After reading this and other threads i've come to the conclusion that the Police know excally whats going on when they're called out to a field in middle of nowhere with reports of people with guns with decoys scattered around etc,but carry on regardless and simply use it as another training excercise.Im guessing here,but if the Police receive fewer and fewer gun incidents they would have their armed officers reduced so perhaps this is their way of safeguarding staff?