Bagsy Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 Sounds to me like the CPS made a big boo boo with this one too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 I personally think that the treatment of the accused is way over the top, and the way that the women were forced to the ground was disgusting. There are videos on the 'net of police overreacting everyday. Just what is happening to this country when the police behave like thugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted July 17, 2010 Report Share Posted July 17, 2010 Good to see that the chap is attempting to seek some justice: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-10672581 Some discipline from certain officers would go a long way to getting Joe Public on side with the police who often do the right thing but sadly employ a number of morons who think the badge gives the power to do what they want and remain above the law. After all, it is the job of coursts to deliver justice, not someone who thinks they have the answer and a baton to enforce that answer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 Just what is happening to this country when the police behave like thugs. The copper was a fool, but generalisations like this don't do anybody any good and just reinforce stereotypes that the media is more than happy to portray to sell papers. Sadly, the good news stories don't sell papers and the very small minority of coppers who make the headlines for all the wrong reasons are the ones the public are fed all the time - and they're the one's who are remembered. I particularly liked Mudpattens' comments, (only 15 more yrs to go mate ). Mung's bang on as usual, they were clutching at straws to nick him for that, surely there was some sort of affray beforehand? P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 There MUST have been an affray the guy was covered in blood, I wonder why there has been no mention of how he came to be bleeding so much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 I'm no legal pro but those coppers don't look like they have a leg to stand on. They're in trouble I recon! Unfortunately though I'm on the side of "what exactly did he do earlier?". If he's known to them, kicks off every week and is always hurting people then perhaps the police just decided they'd had enough of him getting off lightly and wanted to give him something to remember? It's not right by any means, but I'm also not sure how wrong it is. He'll get over it, and how badly scarred was they guy he'd attacked earlier, perhaps for life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 I'm no legal pro but those coppers don't look like they have a leg to stand on. They're in trouble I recon! Unfortunately though I'm on the side of "what exactly did he do earlier?". If he's known to them, kicks off every week and is always hurting people then perhaps the police just decided they'd had enough of him getting off lightly and wanted to give him something to remember? It's not right by any means, but I'm also not sure how wrong it is. He'll get over it, and how badly scarred was they guy he'd attacked earlier, perhaps for life? If they wanted to do that I would have hoped they were bright enough to do it back at the station. To do that on display in a High Street.... stupidity or just not bothered enough? "We're the Sweeney, Essex Police son, and we've haven't had any dinner yet, so unless you want a kickin'..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 There's no excuse, if you saw the average brentwood bloke on a friday night they are all about 5' 4", weigh about 7 stone and I could take ten of them out with a hefty **** - Essex blokes are gay (NOTE, Northern blokes who happen to live in Essex are not counted in my summing up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (BlaserF3 @ Jul 17 2010, 09:18 PM) Just what is happening to this country when the police behave like thugs. Pedro - I don't believe BlaserF3 was having a pop at all Police. I think he made the valid point that it is a poor day when the Police behave like thugs. On this occasion, I believe they did. The Policeman who sprayed him, the ones who held him down whilst he got sprayed and the ones who watched him do it. I didn't see any Policeman arresting one of their colleagues for assault. I am a firm supporter of the Police. I have many friends who are in the Police and have dealt with humdreds more. That said, I am of the opinion that on this occasion, they got it totally wrong. Edited July 18, 2010 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 (edited) The copper was a fool, but generalisations like this don't do anybody any good and just reinforce stereotypes that the media is more than happy to portray to sell papers. Sadly, the good news stories don't sell papers and the very small minority of coppers who make the headlines for all the wrong reasons are the ones the public are fed all the time - and they're the one's who are remembered. I particularly liked Mudpattens' comments, (only 15 more yrs to go mate ). Mung's bang on as usual, they were clutching at straws to nick him for that, surely there was some sort of affray beforehand? P. Less than one year to go mate and it can't come soon enough As I've already said, if the facts are as reported then I have no sympathy for them. However, I'm sure that many on here have no idea how difficult it is to deal with drunks. You can't reason with them. They don't act in a logical way and cannot help getting involved even when it is nothing to do with them. I've had drunks walk straight into my police dog to try and help a complete stranger who was being lawfully arrested. I've had them get into my car to be with their mate who was lawfully arrested and I've even had them trying to let my tyres down to prevent me taking away someone who was lawfully arrested. Dealijng with drunks is one of the hardet things to do (after dealing with senior officers). You can't just lock them all uplike we used to because now they have to have a cell each and we simply haven't got the room. Edited July 18, 2010 by UKPoacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 This was not a case of dealing with a drunk, this was a case of police officers assaulting a person. How would you feel if it was a relative of yours instead of a "drunk" that's assuming that he was drunk. I have no time whatsoever for thugs who wear a uniform then use excessive force to restrain him, then most likely get away with it. In the early 1970's two friends of mine were badly beaten up in Kendal police station after being arrested for being drunk, the case was heard in Crown Court but the officers involved just got a slap on the wrist. I know that drunks are not easy to handle but they do not need to be assaulted while they are being arrested, if you used this amount of force it's not long before someone is killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodcock11 Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 It is sad isn't - every time something like this happens, one loses a bit more respect for the police When I was young, i respected and looked up to someone in a police uniform - now we seem to get more and more over the top behaviour by so-called police officers and, as a result, support for the police service slides inexorably downwards. There is no way that anyone can justify a police officer behaving like a thug. Compare these with the brave officers of the Police Service of Northern Ireland who had to face up to rioting mobs in the Ardoyne area of Belfast on a nightly basis last week - one wpc had a paving slab dropped on her from a great height. Those responsible will be caught by a dedicated team [currently 30 + strong experienced officers] who are scouring video & photographic records and will, as a result, arrest and bring the perpetrators to justice. The Chief Constable has made that very very clear. Maybe - just maybe - those thugs in blue who bring disgrace to the service are not so thick that they cannot learn from the example of brave decent police officers and remember that every time that they act like a thug, they bring shame to all their decent, hardworking colleagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverballer Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 at least they're not racist and corrupt like some of the south african police force who accept a bribe even for murder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 at least they're not racist and corrupt like some of the south african police force who accept a bribe even for murder. I suggest that you read this http://www.innocent.org.uk/cases/guildford4/ Or this http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/s...000/2516525.stm And there are more if you wish to look for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 However much i dont like the police, policemen and definately jumped up ex policemen, i support them here. I wasnt there so i can be sure, but id put money on the fact that the lad who got sprayed had pushed his luck a bit too far. I think if the police were alot harder (but not to the point of being totally corrupt) then there would be alot less hassel from drunks on a saturday night. At the minute people can be very cheeky/gobby to the police and they will do nothing. And even if they do arrest a young ****** up student, they put them in a cell for the night and then let them away with a 'good telling off'. Is this video "hard enough" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...volt-taser.html ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badshot Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 Good to see that the chap is attempting to seek some justice: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-10672581 Some discipline from certain officers would go a long way to getting Joe Public on side with the police who often do the right thing but sadly employ a number of morons who think the badge gives the power to do what they want and remain above the law. After all, it is the job of coursts to deliver justice, not someone who thinks they have the answer and a baton to enforce that answer... Oh good, yet another no win no fee I guess, that is exactly what we need to spend some money on!!! If all these firms were rounded up and sent off to a deserted island somewhere they would all die due to blaming somebody else for not doing something. Pillocks the whole lot of them. :blink: There MUST have been an affray the guy was covered in blood, I wonder why there has been no mention of how he came to be bleeding so much? My personal feelings are that if you want to play rough, then you have got to expect to get hurt, whoever you play with. If it was me there (in cuffs) I would have expected a beasting, not a squirt of pepper spray. Not likely to happen now though as I grew out of that phase of my life years ago. The police have a difficult job to do and if this blame culture goes on then all we can expect to hear about is " the police stood and watched as the man was beaten to death" headlines. For those who say it won't then how about the pcso's who stood and watched those kids drown because they didn't have the right training? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 (edited) Which bit of no charges and not guilty didn't you get? Yeah he looked like a wrong'un and must have deserved it I know for the Daily Mail reading fraternity that as soon as the police knock at your door then it's all "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" and "no smoke without fire" and "well he must have done it or they wouldn't bother"....... but not always does it work like that. Indeed, this is about getting a beating / gassing whilst your are cuffed, over the bonnet of a car and with your legs tied and with two coppers leaning on you. In Daily Mail land that's fair I know, especially if you are drunk, out past 11 p.m., black, have tatoos, under the age of 35, wearing trainers, or have an ear ring because despite "not guilty and no charges" you must have done it and or deserved something...... Edited July 18, 2010 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 The officers ahave arrested someone for an offence, What offence I do not know. They deploy taser and then attempt to handcuff him. The prisoner appears to be non compliant refusing to be handcuffed. He appears to lock his arms to prevent being handcuffed. The officer, as many will describe , punches the offender. What you are seeing is in fact Home Office approved techniques being used. The officer is punching approved area, ie those that are not likely to injure the offender but will cause temprorary loss of function/discomfort to enable compliance. In the event that fails chummy receives a second jolt from the taser , again, the effect is temporary and any injury is going to be certainly less than other force , ie a baton blow etc. We do not see the video from the beginning so the offender behaviour which prompted the use of force cannot be taken into consideration. All this is taking place whilst officers themselves are in a vulnerable position. They are kneeling/crouching and a crowd of people are around. Take it from someowmne who knows, and has been in that position...If anyone in the crowd is going to lay the boot into a copper , that is the time that it is most likely to happen, when the officer is at his most vulnerable. Apologies for the rambling dialogue, I just wanted to redress the balance. Coppers ( of which I am one) are quick to receive criticism, not all are completely blameless, I know, but on the whole we are ordinary people just doing a job just to pay the bills like everyone else, we deal with people that most folk would cross the street to avoid, get assaulted, spat at , and injured during the course of our work. We joined knowing this, no one forced us to join. But without people like police officers, where would we be now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 Mungler, you dont get that amount of claret on you from resisting arrest, if you look he was covered in blood before they cuffed him, there must have been an altercation of some description for him to get that bloody surely.Im not saying hes guilty or not guilty, and to be honest i reckon that the law just " re-addressed the balance by dropping charges.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 Mungler, you dont get that amount of claret on you from resisting arrest, if you look he was covered in blood before they cuffed him, there must have been an altercation of some description for him to get that bloody surely.Im not saying hes guilty or not guilty, and to be honest i reckon that the law just " re-addressed the balance by dropping charges.......... What's the fact he has blood on his face got to do with the price of eggs? He could have been minding his own business and been jumped outside a pub by half a dozen robbers, bouncers, nuns or whatever. No charges and no conviction. Don't you think that the police would have done anything to get something on him? Because as it stands they cuffed, restrained and gassed an innocent man. Indeed, bringing a prosecution for allegedly spitting at a paramedic (assault) is beyond desperate. If you read the report it's a cut eye brow - anyone who has had any cut on their head / face will know that the slightest nick bleeds like crazy. Again, I know for the Daily Mail readers that being covered in your own blood is guilty as charged, regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 I agree about the sticky excess looking blood from a small facial wound but how did he get it? and yes I agree they would have stuck anything on him to justify the action......unless they struck a deal for him to be freed if no complaints were made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 (edited) It's not about how much blood he had on him or what he may or may not have done. It's about not getting gassed whilst completely restrained. The video is here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/8255953.stm It's 2 minutes, watch it to the end. Edited July 18, 2010 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 From my experience, we turn up at a job and someone makes a complaint of assault or whatever. We aren't there at the time that the alleged offence occurs therefore have to deal with the incident based on what evidence is immediately to hand. Imagine this, the copper turns up, the paramedic alledges that he was spat at by the offender , who is drunk and not in the mood to calmly put his side. The officers arrest said alleged offender on suspicion of having committed said offence ,who is not at all happy, because no doubt , he believes that he has done nothing wrong, and resists accordingly and is then restrained by those officers using home office approved techniques. The officers in attendance act on the first account they receive, ie from the paramedic ie the assault by spitting. the offender kicks off on arrest and has to be restrained. What would you suggest the officers wh arrive and have to deal with this do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 (edited) From my experience, we turn up at a job and someone makes a complaint of assault or whatever. We aren't there at the time that the alleged offence occurs therefore have to deal with the incident based on what evidence is immediately to hand. Imagine this, the copper turns up, the paramedic alledges that he was spat at by the offender , who is drunk and not in the mood to calmly put his side. The officers arrest said alleged offender on suspicion of having committed said offence ,who is not at all happy, because no doubt , he believes that he has done nothing wrong, and resists accordingly and is then restrained by those officers using home office approved techniques. The officers in attendance act on the first account they receive, ie from the paramedic ie the assault by spitting. the offender kicks off on arrest and has to be restrained. What would you suggest the officers wh arrive and have to deal with this do? You haven't watched that video have you? He was cuffed from behind, over the bonnet of a police car, held down by 2 police men and had his legs tied. Why did they gas him at point blank (contrary to home office guidelines?) Edited July 18, 2010 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 That will teach me to reply without watching the video first... in that scenario a cannot justify the officers actions in spraying the subject with pava/cs whilst he was clearly restrained and not a threat to anyone. I cannot offer any justification why the officer deemed it necessery to further spray him just for being , it seems , gobby. He is arrested and handcuffed, he does not appear to be violent, therefore the officers actions in this video do not, in my opinion, to be proportionate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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