coyotemaster

Marathon??

Right you are about the need for speed with steel, it Trumps( apologies to all) charge weight at every turn. The load I shoot chrono's at 1425 through a 27" tube---but chronographing shot loads is a precarious proposition due to the wad lagging behind and fooling the sensors.Bear in mind that Blue Dot has quite a lot faster burn rate than Alliant Steel. The old dryloks were awful but I still killed birds, you can kill them farther and deader with todays top loads. I do believe that the zinc plated shot in the Remington Nitro mag contributes to its lethality--they are truly round unlike some of the steel pellets I have looked at from lower priced offerings. Especially bad are certain "promo" loads that are not a companies top offering. As far as choke selection goes, large steel pellets don't behave like smaller steel or lead and tend to agitate if you will when confronted with too much constriction. This is not my original thinking but comes from Roster's work for Winchester. A constriction of .020 is what we would term improved modified. Remingtons factory tubes are very optimistic about constriction and desired pattern. The factory modified steel tube only provides .010 constriction and we both agree that is not enough. Roster put out a series of videos on shooting steel in the 90's and folded geese cleanly with 1 1/4 steel BBB ( .020 constriction of choke )out to a ranged distance of 73 yds on camera, so I know the BBBs are lethal that far--I am just biased to Ts as I have had better luck with them. Keep in mind that I don't condone shooting at geese that far but Roster has had a whole bunch more experience than I at both killing high geese and loading steel shot. I appreciate your opinions and see the validity in them, but give a little less constriction a try and you may be favorably impressed.

Tom Roster did all the steel lethality studies for Winchester and his findings were that less is more when choking for steel. As I recall from a conversation with the man in the 90s he found that .020 constriction worked best with large steel shot. I shoot a 10 ga. .760 tube in a Remington with a .780 bore size with good effect. In the 12 I shot a .715 tube with a backbored tube with a .735 diameter. Both loads were T shot. I have found that Blue Dot works well with the 10 loads and agree that 1 1/2 oz. is a good balance between speed and density. My current 10 ga. load is 42gr. Blue Dot with a Precision reloading brown wad in a Federal case with 1 1/2 oz. zinc plated (Precision reloading) T shot and a Fiocchi 209 primer. I would advise caution as this is a very stiff load and only used in very cold weather when our Goose season is on. In warm weather it may be problematic.It is however deadly on our Canadian geese and has 65 yard lethality. A friend of mine shoots BBB routinely and kills high geese but I prefer Ts as I find there added energy useful at longer ranges.

First of all thanks for your courteous expression of disagreement--it is truly one of the things I missed in my absence. I should probably have included that my handloads are only running around 1150-1175 fps. You are correct in your assertion that any load pushed too fast will have a degradation in pattern efficiency. Pellets are very inefficient in terms of ballistic dynamics. Unlike a bullet with a relatively efficient form (and corresponding BC) shot tends to lose velocity rapidly regardless of initial velocity. I have found that pushing lead pellets any faster than around 1250fps is entering into a state of diminishing returns concerning patterns and energy delivered. Any discussion of speed, pellets and patterns would be futile without establishing the importance of high antimony shot as you are already aware. Bob Brister in his outstanding treatise on ballistics chose to perform his pattern testing on a moving target to negate the effect of counting the pattern string as on a stationary board. This is where the shorter more efficient pattern of a 24 gram loads shines as all the pellets arrive pretty much at the same time due to the efficiency of bore size vs.shot column height. When you fire a 36 gram load into a stationary pattern board the results will look truly impressive but in real world ballistics many of those pellets are arriving late and would be strung out perhaps as far as several feet. I too started out shooting the standard 1 1/8 oz. bushing in my Pacific press, then in reading I thought the logic of less shot and slower speeds might be better. My final destination found my dropping a little less than 7/8 oz. with around 16.8gr. of 700X for the above stated velocity with a Claybuster gray wad. I can tell by your responses that you are a seasoned(and probably a very good) shooter and have spent some time at the range. I am not trying to sell anyone anything only suggesting that, in regards to lead shot, a reduced load in my experience will perform right alongside a heavier load all other factors being equal and this being due to less setback and the shorter column height which are mutually beneficial.The biggest advantage in my opinion is the lower recoil and less fatigue from it. As for choke I am generally shooting somewhere around .010-.015 constriction depending on conditions. Thanks again for your patience and allowing me to express what works for me.

That was my exact thought. When we were blessed to have large amounts of pigeons(feral as they were) I opted to shoot 24gram loads with hard shot and use a little more choke if the shots were long. One might be surprised how much better 7/8 oz. of shot patterns from a 12 bore than a heavier load that has much more shot deformation due to set back. Fatigue, flinching and sore shoulders need not be a part of a high volume day.

Hey Bud If allowed Ruger makes a BX 25 mag that is pretty flawless, I personally dislike the standard rotary design. With a Green Mountain barrel and decent trigger the Ruger will shoot with some of the better target rifles. I have seen a few that would shoot moa to 100 yds..

That's pretty high antimony!! I would imagine you would mix that with pure lead to get it down to around 6%??

Most of the steel manuals here advocate strongly against placing an over column wad it will indeed open up the pattern. If you are trying to get a better crimp do as other posters have recommended and put the spacer under the shot inside the wad. I use nail polish to seal up the tops of casings to prevent moisture infiltration.

In addition you must magnify to a preset for most mildots(some are 10x some are higher) that can be a deal breaker in night shooting to have a higher magnification and less light gathering. I dial up and use an accurate laser along with copious practice. Longest field shot was 520 yds on a sleeping Coyote.

I have some Harris and I can attest to how good they stand behind their product. I got the legs caught up in a fence while swinging on a 2nd of a double on Coyotes. I called Harris for direction on how to disassemble in order to straighten an extension. The cheerful response was send them in and we will attend to it. A few days later I received a new pair--no charge. Whenever you discuss cost you must consider other factors.

The Benjamin Marauder in ,25 would suffice nicely for the task at hand provided it's within your laws. As you may know it is a PCP with a factory mv of around 850fps. but fully tunable if that's too fast.

After 20 yrs. reloading 10ga. and smaller steel loads which I gather you are going after for waterfowl? I would advise you to get the best components you can afford. I use Precision Reloading zinc plated shot and their brown wads for long range 10 steel loads. Blue Dot powder in the range of 40-42 grains works best for me out of a tight modified tube. This is with 1 1/2 oz. steel shot--a fast load, devastating on Geese.

How right you are Fister!! Can't find them on the shelves and the price has sky rocketed to the tune of $5/box of 50. Normal pricing before the Sandyhoax was 1/2 that.

A friend had the Browning Gold 10--wouldn't digest Remington Nitro mags---the SP 10 he replaced it with runs them all with no hassles. Opt for the 30" tube if you are only shooting on the pass, the long tube makes for precise leads on high flyers. I find the 26" barrel does the job but if I had a do over.....

Hey Kent--You are correct there are guys here that are sitting on thousands of primers and bullets just...in case. There was chatter about the possibility of a special tax on components so many "stocked up" Your system of limiting amounts seems sensible to me, I would rather let the retailer deal with powder freshness than myself. But for the present time most feel that "When in Rome...." and continue to hoard.

I did score some Varget about a year ago and find it indispensable for .308 and .223 heavies. It was $25/lb + hazmat fee. Primers have skyrocketed as well. I bought some of the Wolf primers but am not sure if they are the equal of CCIs and Remingtons. Need to shoot them more.

If you decide to load the big gun down a bit you can slip a 12 Ga. wad inside of the 10 wads and cut the shot charge in 1/2. I shoot the Rem RP 10 wad and insert the AA red was inside it and load 1 1/2 oz.or less of lead shot with the appropriate dose of a medium burn rate powder such as 800X or 4756. I run a PW loader with a gauge die setup and it creates beautiful loads in about any weight you could want. Some will not function gas guns.

To put things in perspective my wife and I were out fishing today and I heard a machine coming across a field toward the canal we were on, spraying a soybean field with insecticide for some real or imagined pest. We made a rapid retreat away from the drift carried by the wind and hopefully avoided exposure. Herbicides are unpleasant and possibly harmful to humans---pesticides are made to stop the function of highly resistant bugs. Many are designed to interrupt the nerve impulses in the bugs brain and do the same on a lower levels to humans. Sarin was originally designed to be used as a pesticide. Cholinesterase inhibiting pesticide wreak havoc with the CNS of humans and quite possibly cause Parkinsons disease and early dementia. I see crop spraying done here on an ever increasing level and most people here aren't bright enough to see the harm in it. Instead they buy the sprays and treat their homes and lawns where there children are crawling around and wonder why the teacher says the child is slow in the head.

You must be a bit daft. EU is so far ahead of us over here at banning pesticides and certain drugs that we consume with great damage to ourselves and our environment. The lobbyists here about own all the votes in congress and the EPA is just a puppet for the big industries. You should take pride in the fact that the UK and other Europeon countries are so vigilant about banning harmful substances. As for being "needed" I really doubt it. If they were to drop the mono culture way of farming and use rotation and natural fertilizers to enhance the soil instead of killing off the microbes and needed bacteria the yield would increase along with the food value.

Hi Boys! Is ammo hard to find there? .22 shells here are still a little scarce and quite pricey. Powders are getting a little easier to find but usually only in 1 # lots. Bullets (heads) are getting more available but at the same price as before the scarcity. I was just curious as to the extent the shortage affected you over there. Depending on this falls elections there could well be another run on ammo/guns if the Democrats have control of the senate and Obama continues his anti-gun tirade. The Coyotemaster

Better hang on to it!!! It is hard to come by here as well---just not available--same with bullets and primers.

From what I have read it is often preceded by celiac disease in many cases by an allergy to wheat gluten (gluten enteropathy) A decent book on the subject by Sherry Rogers "No More Heartburn" deals with different digestive problems and touches heavily on this problem. By the bye I read recently that many of your country and also of Irish descent have allergies to wheat and dairy and that Crohns and Colitis is prevalent there.

Excellent group!! your gun is the cream of the crop as far as factory accuracy goes with the kevlar stock and aluminum bedding block. I wouldn't change a thing or waste any more barrel life shooting paper. Find some critters that need smoked and put it on them.

Henry, I know a fellow who has one and is unimpressed with it after being around a FoxPro, you always get what you pay for ----never more sometimes less.

Vince this is almost precisely what the investment expert said, eventually the cards will fall and those holding the responsibility (U.S.) will be bankrupt. Evidently you can't spend tour way out of debt. We have increased our national debt tremendously under the current administration and sooner or later accountability will be called for. Not to place the blame only on them but it's not solving a problem and the solution may be unobtainable at this point in time. Not wanting to sound like a dooms dayer but it would appear that a change is in store.