12gauge82

Absaloutly correct, the UK needs wholesale change and its not going to come from the Conservatives and it certainly won't come from Labour.

Like I've said on another thread, we're long overdue a change in this country, first step is voting the brexit party in the EU elections.

I won't be voting for anyone connected to the main party's, particularly the Cons, who I will never again vote for unless democracy is reinstalled, mindlessly following the two party race is what allows them to ignore the electorate. I couldn't care less how poor the alternatives might be, I refuse to agree to be ruled by a dictatorship.

Looks like the prediction that many of us have made on here regarding a wipe out for all the major party's come the next general election could well be correct. https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-backlash-party-activists-fear-hostility-could-turn-sinister-11691211 And this made me chuckle. https://www.independent.co.uk/video/News/jean-claude-juncker-rwanda-fire-video-first-lady-jeannette-kagame-ceremony-brexit-eu-european-a8864821.html

Very good post, I genuinely feel for anyone in this position and am all to aware that the picture that paints is of far to many UK residents of working class. Rightly or wrongly its one of the biggest driving factors that caused me to vote leave, we need real change in this country, particularly for our young who have been priced out of owning a home, are paid a wage they can't live on or raise a family on and are then called lazy because they won't work for minimum wage in sectors that are flooded by cheap imported labour.

From what I can see, everything he said in that statement was a fact. As for Mays supposed deal, I'd have genuinely rather stay in the EU than accept that.

Yeah I can definitely see your point, I just don't want to see the country continue with the infighting, accusations and hate, I hope whatever side of the debate everyones on we can hopefully all agree that it's politician's that have caused the mess and not those who cast their vote with the best of intentions with the life experience and information they had available to them at the time.

I think the best thing anyone who voted leave can do now is accept brexit isn't going to happen, we can use the ballot box to punish those we feel responsible, but as a country we need to come back together. The biggest issue for me now isn't even brexit although I still believe we'd be far better off out, but we need huge political reform, as our system has been shown to be completely corrupt and self serving.

I thought this was an excellent speech.

The biggest problem I can see with another vote is if its good for the brexit issue then its good for the Scottish independence issue to, and whatever people's opinion on that, I think they'd have a point, one rule for one and all that!

David Camoron is on video stating, a vote leave is a vote to leave the single market and the customs Union, along with many other broken promises. The pro remain leaflet that went out to every house hold cost something in the region of 9m, despite both sides only being allocated 7m each. The fact is, both sides told lies and I don't think its helpful to get into a debate over which side was worse. As Raja has said, we are where we are and a solution needs to be found, it really is a mess, I'm at the point I'd rather them either taking us out under wto, or simply being honest and admit they only held a referendum as they thought they'd win and it would put the subject to bed, state a hard brexit was never really an option and they knew the EU would never give us a free trade deal and for that reason, brexit is cancelled, while not being happy, I'd actually respect their honesty for that, rather than carry on as if the electorate is thick and tell them no one knew what they voted for and the continued back sliding, all this dithering is damaging the economy and its way too early to gauge the damage to our political system due to the complete loss of faith in government, it could literally last generations.

But surely you must admit, it's not just that no deal was what most who voted leave expected to happen, its what the government promised if leave won the referendum? Its also a reason for stating the referendum was rigged, the government only held the vote because they believed it'd be a shore win, when they realised it was going to be close, they started making ridiculous false claims, overspending their campaign budget and now the final betrayal, they are refusing to deliver what they promised if they lost the referendum, which they did, this is why leave supporters are so angry and I would say rightly so.

Oh I fully agree, I don't think a wto brexit will happen either and at least while May is in charge, the EU is never going to give us a free trade deal. I can't see any other deal that will honour the referendum result, we really are in a catch 22.

No I don't think they actually literally rigged it, but they did their best, the lies and scare mongering, the leaflet which cost more than the entire campaign budget should have allowed, the perverse thing is, I think it back fired on them, the public smelt a rat and some probably voted leave because they could sense the government were telling lies. You raise some good points above, but going back to how we're going to get out of this mess, I can only see one option, a wto brexit would deliver on the leave vote and would most likely cause some level of economic damage, the level depends on who you listen to. I fear the EU won't give us a free trade deal due to the ineptitude of Mays negotiations coupled with a parliament that is trying to stop us leaving. Not leaving, Mays deal, or another form of Brino will not deliver on the referendum result and I personally believe the long term damage from that will damage our country worse than even the worst prediction of a hard brexit. Just how they're going to square the circle is beyond me.

I believe there would be short term fall out and I agree I don't think the government ever thought for a second they would need to consider it, they thought they had the referendum rigged and never considered leave might win, I'm actually at the point I wonder if it'd have been better if Remain had won as I believe the damage being done by all this dithering, both now and the long term damage to the Uks image on the world stage could dwarf even the worst predictions for a hard brexit. No I actually agree with this, the damage currently being done is enormous.

Remind me what the polls thought about the result of the referendum before the vote again? Besides its irrelevant, we've had a country wide referendum and it needs to be actioned.

Dilly Dilly 😂

Yes of course it is more complex than leaving a club and while I agree the average voter wouldn't have understood what mechanisms would be needed to extracted us from the EU, they would have understood the concept of leaving, that leads us to two mechanisms we could leave by, one would be via a free trade deal and the other would be no deal and whatever option would as a minimum require us to stop paying the EU a substantial sum for trade, stop EU court supremacy over our own, stop free movement of people and bring us out of the single market and customs union, that was promised in no uncertain terms by the government before the referendum if leave won. So that is what as a minimum anyone voting leave would and should expect, it couldn't be clearer. I'll add, I would have liked to see a free trade deal, however the EU stated from the outset that was impossible because any deal would require the UK to respect the 4 freedoms, disMay and her team of traitors haven't even tried to negotiate a free deal, probably because they know its a non starter, therefore by default a wto brexit is what should be delivered.

The point is, if you leave a club or organisation, you leave, you don't leave a little bit, or leave but set a new club up with the same person and almost identical rules, it's just a play on words to ignore the referendum result and nobodys falling for it, though there are a few remainers buying into it in an attempt to block brexit from happening.

Correct

I would agree with this, although what was voted for was one of two options, they are either 1. a free trade deal or 2. No deal, they are the only way to leave the EU. The EU made clear at the start a free trade deal was out of the question which leaves by default a no deal brexit.

All this nonsense of leave not meaning to leave, to repeat again, there was absaloutly no doubt before the referendum that a vote to leave the EU was a vote to stop free movement of people, restore UK court supremacy, to come out of the single market and the customs Union, I would also add all the other core rules that makes up being an EU member, that would just be common sense, if you decide to leave a club, it doesn't mean you automatically make a new club with the same or broadly similar rules, with the same entity, I.e the EU, anyone arguing it does is either trying to subvert democracy or is a lunatic who can't grasp the meaning of LEAVE!

Your right, I wouldn't do that job for all the tea in China, I should imagine it's a thankless task, like being a football ref or a traffic warden. I genuinely don't think most of the politicians know what's coming, the last bit of control the voter has is at the ballot box and I can see the people punishing them with it for their treacherous behaviour.

Be interesting to see what comes of this, although I fear its one of those occasions where the government will do what it wants regardless of the law. I have no doubt brexit will never be delivered, what this whole Brexit sarga has achieved, is to expose the fact the political system in this country is undemocratic, we the people are ruled over, we are given the vote to keep us quiet and under control, not to enact any real change, that fact in itself could cause the biggest revolution this country has ever seen and I think the consequences whether good or bad are going to ripple out over the next several decades.

Unfortunately, the way it works is that if said knife is over 3" blade, or any length and locking, the burden of proof that you are carrying it for "good reason" falls on you, and while it would seem obvious that the op was carrying it for good reason and I've no doubt the CPS or a jury if it ever got that far would duely kick it out, it is my understanding that a police officer would be within their rights to arrest anyone they felt necessary. The law truly can be an *** at times.