Dave at kelton

Well done great post. It is a pain when another dog runs in like that but that’s also part of the lesson for a young dog and yours came out with flying colours! I had a young dog out on our shoot last week. A couple of retrieves on pheasant and a woodcock. That satisfaction outweighed shooting more pheasants than I have ever had there.

You can see where this is going. Just like mobile phones, manufacturers reinventing the wheel just to be able to sell new ones by declaring the last model as out of date. You must have HP Steel Proof to be safe so come and buy our latest……blah blah blah. Trading on fear. Well, having shot standard steel in an old thin walled SxS English sidelock, in a modern but not steel proof OU, and HP steel in standard proofed semi auto with tight choke, I won’t be upgrading! None of the aforesaid have suffered any adverse side effects and nor have I.

Yep Wildfowlers are happily using full, aftermarket, chokes with big shot. A number of my pals use T shot. All are still alive and kicking with a full hand of fingers and no split barrels or chokes. I have also said this before. Our North American brothers have been using big shot at faster speed and higher pressure in precisely the same modern guns as us (best English aside). No issues and a simpler life. What’s our problem? Well it’s CIP rules that classify anything bigger than 4 as high pressure and limit velocity. if you want to get hung up with all of this steel stuff that’s up to you but many of us are just getting on with it to no ill effect to ourselves or our guns as Scully says. The only point I would make on choke is that you need a lot less choke with steel and in general I do not go above half, even in my wildfowling guns, based on pattern.

Agree all of this but I now use brass cases.

Will do when I get the chance

You are correct nor am I and that is the problem. The cardboard cupwads I buy from Claygame are paired with an inverted cup wad as obturator which I make myself so I can produce an entirely degradable nontoxic load. The only plastic used is the cartridge case.

Connor, you are correct on the fibre shot cups but they are not suitable in small bores as they are too bulky requiring a thick wall to protect the barrels. We desperately need manufacturers to come up with an eco wad that they are prepared to make available to the home loading market. Our problem is also that as we have to move up a couple of shot sizes in steel all of our loads are bulkier than the equivalent lead load. Pressure in this area from BASC and the other shooting organisations would be greatly appreciated!

You are wrong on this as Claygame are having these made in various gauges, 12 and larger in various sizes to accommodate different steel shot loads. I discuss these with them annually and have just had some more delivered.

Yes you can shoot BP through a nitro gun and I have many times. One tip is when you have finished fire a couple of nitro fibre wad shells through to clean out most of the BP fowling. To clean out your barrels scrub with a 50:50 mix of concentrated windscreen washer fluid and water then dry off. This removes nearly all the BP residue. Once dry clean as usual and oil. I use this all the time in my percussion guns.

I answered it. Took about five minutes. My main point was that any sort of restriction before suitable, effective, and equivalent cost alternatives were available was premature. This was particularly pertinent to small bores I.e. smaller than 12 bore. Yes I would encourage everyone to complete!!!

This. Pin fire and percussion guns are cheap as chips. Probably cheaper than deactivated and don’t need a license.

Peter Dyson, or Brownells.

At last…somebody with a sense of humour!😂

There are also a number of non toxic loading forums that are a good source of loading data and materials. You have to remember that, from a pure liability point of view, people are loathe to share data. That is why you need to use manufacturers or suppliers data like Claygame. I once obtained data from a well known writer for Shooting Times. The loads didn’t feel right so I sent a batch to the proof house. I was suitably admonished and politely told not to be so silly in future. The pressures developed in their words were “suitable only as a proof load” and should under no circumstances be used! They may well feel let down but don’t need to keep telling us at every available opportunity. Surely the point has been made and constant repetition doesn’t make it any stronger; it is just boring!

Yes fibre shot ups are the answer in 12 bore and larger. I Use them in 12, 10, and 8 although the latter use ITM and they are fine if you have a good obturator wad under them. They are though too bulky in smaller bores which is why we need development in these bores before any transition from lead.

You wouldn’t be loading steel with fibre anyway. Will stay that way until we get a suitable eco wad for home loads in any bore. The only small bore non toxic loading I am doing is tss in the 28 bore and those wouldn’t be wasted on low partridges. I have sourced all components despite all the gloom and doom. Speaking to a pal this morning he had used tss in his 28 on high pheasant with good effect but I hate to think of the cost. Realistically most of the people I know are only loading for big bore or wildfowling loads in any event and Chris is on the wildfowling team.

The star is the choke mark and it is full and full on my understanding, unless they have been bored out and only a gunsmith will tell you that. Where you go from here is a matter for you. I would certainly have it checked and if still full ….. it’s up to you what you put through it in the knowledge that the recommendation is max half for steel.

Sorry but I disagree. I have used bismuth when shooting ducks and will simply be using it on all days for all quarry. I don’t fire many shots on a muzzle loading day so cost isn’t an issue.

No accounting for stupidity!

Personally I would pick up some good quality vintage hardwood rods and just add modern brushes, Payne Galway type and standard phosphor bronze in the appropriate bore. I don’t bother with mops and buy my patches as a roll off the bay. Add your chosen cleaner and oil and that’s all you need.

Too Beige! 😂😂

Another programme for me to boycott just like Countryfile.

Contact my pal Graham at https://www.beechgrovetrees.com/

Yep, Blenheim.

Sorry to be stupid but what cartridges does this take, gauge and length? thanks