Boromir Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Hope the men are gonna be ok. But I can see this being an excuse for the SNP to ban shooting in the future, thats how pathetic the SNP are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 It's amazing how often things like this happen! I just don't understand how it can if you foolow good gun handling procedure. It's really not that hard but then I guess we all over look things sometimes. I hope the guys involved are ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutey Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Unless the weapon is faulty I would say there's no such a thing as an accidental discharge, if it was down to mishandling or carelessness It's a negligent discharge and should be treated as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometa24/7 Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 well it just goes to show people,(GUN SAFETY) is first and formost thought when out shooting... wether it be an accident or not...my thinking is that, if they'd paid attention to that ( GOLDEN RULE) maybe this accident could have been avoided.. cheers..'STAY SAFE' LIVE TO SHOOT ANOTHER DAY... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 Brings a whole new level to the term Dangerous Dog... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eskdale hawks Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 This could have been avoided! No excuses! THE ONLY SAFE GUN IS AN EMPTY ONE AND ONE THAT IS SEEN TO BE EMPTY!!! unless you use it as a club??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 am I wrong or didn't the article say it wasn't the dog after investigation or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpicide Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 I heard the gun was dropped,but so far all rumours are just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 There are no details in the news report but I would not be surprised if they were all in the same hide, kneeling tight against a drystane dyke. I wonder who the guide was (and I hope he has BASC insurance). It is one of these situations where the Codes of Practice don't always co-incide. The general BASC Code of Practice says that there should never be two people with loaded guns in the same hide but the Goose Guide Code does not mention this point - it just says there should not be more than 8 shooters per guide. Eric correct me if I'm wrong but even with BASC insurance if the guide was earning his living from this he'd not be covered by BASC as it clearly states on the documentation that it's for personal sporting only and not commercial insurance. I also though that accidents involving legitimately held firearms were civil matters not criminal so why the police involvement or is this different in Scotland than in England? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkfooty Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Eric correct me if I'm wrong but even with BASC insurance if the guide was earning his living from this he'd not be covered by BASC as it clearly states on the documentation that it's for personal sporting only and not commercial insurance. I also though that accidents involving legitimately held firearms were civil matters not criminal so why the police involvement or is this different in Scotland than in England? Interesting points. My understanding is that registered goose guides (and Des Cochrane is registered I believe) are covered by BASC insurance in exactly the same way as a keeper is. However, if the "accident" was the fault of the gun user, then it will be his insurance (if he has any) that is first in line to meet any claims. On the police involvement, I am no lawyer but my understanding is that reckless discharge of a firearm is a criminal offence in both Scotland and England. Whether the PF proceeds with the case will depend upon whether he considers it was reckless. The circumstances, as I have now heard them, are that the group had taken shots at incoming geese, one of the Guns still had a cartridge up the spout (and presumably had not put the safety back on) when he was knocked by a dog and stumbled, pulling the trigger as he did so. The gun was pointing laterally and shot two of his companions at close range. But that is secondhand information and, though it seems credible, may not necessarily be 100% accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Interesting points. My understanding is that registered goose guides (and Des Cochrane is registered I believe) are covered by BASC insurance in exactly the same way as a keeper is. Mmmm one for David to answer methinks! IMO anyone carrying on business as a guide is NOT covered by BASC insurance and should have their own commercial insurance. However I'd agree that the individual who shot his companion/s will in this instance be liable. Lets hope he has insurance but then again the guide shouldn't be taking people out who haven't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 The BASC policy specifically excludes any business activity. It is important that people understand this and this is why, in part, we send a Key Facts document to ALL members before they renew, which clearly states that business activities are not covered. It is lasso on the membership card carrier ' evidence of insurance' section. Surely no one out there honestly believes you can get insurance for a business for £89 a year! Remember we have trade members turning over a few thousand a year and others turning over in excess of £1m! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 so basically as long as the guide checked all his shooters held insurance and wasn't shooting himself its pretty irrelevant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 so basically as long as the guide checked all his shooters held insurance and wasn't shooting himself its pretty irrelevant And as long as said guide had completed a H&S compliance checklist covering his **** if anything went wrong he (probably) couldn't be successfully prosecuted by anyone. BUT there are never any guarantees into day litigious world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Can't see how the guide could be caught here, the liability rests with the person holding the gun. Accidents happen, and this was just that - an accident. We can all he 'holy' about it, but how many of us, looking back, would say ' there but for the grace of God go I' The downer is that being in Scotland it seems the police have gone for reckless discharge, I have delat with may claims over the years, many worse than this in terms of negligence and outcome, but the police in England / Wlae / N Irealand have never, as I remember, gone for any criminal cases when it was clearly negligence. Scotland though is different.. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Cochrane Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Just read all your comments on this I cant believe most comments look at the down side of this horrible accident. The injured men all signed police statements to verify that every morning they were given a health and saftey speech by the guides and an explanation of the proposed morning flight and safe shooting outlines The Fiscal did not bring this case to court and no charges made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 A belated welcome to PW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Someone with an axe to grind. I love the "Hello, I am new to the Forum and want to start by complaining, without being very speciific". Priceless. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 about a 5 year old thread to boot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traztaz Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 What I do not get is why dig up a post from 2009 and then shout about it as a first post!! Wierd................ Beat me to it Beardo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Someone with an axe to grind. I love the "Hello, I am new to the Forum and want to start by complaining, without being very speciific". Priceless. :lol: New as in a member for 5 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Maybe because Des Cochrane , or an associate, was the guide involved and wants to put the record straight ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) I know he has been a long standing member, but no prior posts and an obscure first one. He must have trawled for this post, as it is ancient. I just wish he would be specific, as he takes a generalised swipe at others. Edited June 27, 2014 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I would imagine it came up in a search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie R Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 If this accident was the same one tt happened to my mortgage broker Alastair then I think the guide involved could have no way prevented it happening. Sharing hides even with experienced shots can be dangerous when the goose fever strikes. Having only shot on th foreshore and not inland space has never been an issue. However remembering to unload a semi after a flight and checking each others weapons is not a bad drill to practise. Getting up early and going to bed late can take its toll and mistakes can happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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