28 gauge V's 410

[rimfire4969]

I am after a gun for my 10 year old son, i have read that a 28 bore would be ideal. I as many others did started with a 410 then on to a 20 bore. I would prefer a 28 for him. I have read it patterns better and better in just about ever way. Except money

 

Why are 28 bores so expensive compared to a 410?

 

Is it a case that there are just not so many made?

[malkiserow]

I met a chap who has taught his son to shoot and at age 12 he is now on 12 bore with subsonics. I was a bit shocked at first but the lad is good with it.

 

If it is about weight...... why not look to a 686 beretta 20 bore at 6Lb and use 21 grm carts. The gun will always be useful possibly for you when you eventually get to the age where a 12 is just a bit too much (might be too far ahead - sorry!). If you are a very good shot, the 28G might be a bit of fun and is a capable gun but in the right hands. For a beginner more spread might be an advantage and the carts of 20 bore a bit cheaper?

 

MC will, no doubt, have some wise words about the 28G.

Edited December 18, 2009 by malkiserow

[njc110381]

Nothing wrong with a .410. The 28 bore has more grunt behind it but my biggest ever Pigeon bag was with a s/s Baikal .410 . There is next to no recoil from either but as you have noticed the 28 bores seem expensive

 

What's your budget?

[edr]

Get a 12g beretta ultralight or similar prefferably a stock to take account of size. Providing its for clays, the best trick i have heard of is to get some one to reload you a few low velocity 18g's for the first few shots without them knowing, therefore taking away the fear of the recoil and then move up to 21grms with an open choke. If you are looking at not shooting clays hen graudallly increase to 24gs then 28gs etc.

 

EDR

 

N.B. im only fourteen and not trying to contradict others but in my personal expeience, i would miss out the 20bore; another gun to get used to, with similar/more recoil to a 12guage its a lot of changing once you've got used to it and with the same recoil as a 20 i preffered more lead in the air so more chance of hitting the clay.

Also i reccomend using a coach ever so often after you learnt, i never listened to my dad like i did to a coach and also the coach standing over me helped to smooth the the bad habbits i had gained after being taught originally.

Edited December 18, 2009 by edr

[DaveB916]

My son started shooting aged 9, he's not a big lad, unlike his dad.....lol

 

I eventually bit the bullet and got him this:

 

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...howtopic=107663

 

and he did real good with it.

 

It all depnds how big/confident your son is, like 'grown ups' gun fit is everything, a gun he cannot handle will ruin his confidence. I knowe I treid my son with a 20 bore to start with, bad move.

 

 

Dave B

[zipdog]

i wouldnt get a good that is too light, it will kick him like a mule and probs put him off.

[Crouch valley]

i would go for a 28 gauge every time. I shoot with one myself even on game days and there is nothing they wont kill that a 12 gauge will . a great gun light no recoil loads of fun. i bet you even have fun with it.

[seeker]

Hi

I use a both a 12 & a 28 Beretta. Until relatively recently the 28s were only in the top grades: now most major gun ranges have them at "grade 1" level. They are still thinner on the ground so seem to hold their value.

 

Some 28s are on a 20 bore action, so may have a little extra weight.

A 28, 20 or a 12, each weighing about 6 & 'a bit' pounds, firing a similar 21/24g load at the same speed through a similar choking should be ...... similar in performance, pattern and recoil. Running costs get progressively higher in the smaller gauges whilst cartridge choice shrinks.

One totally subjective point is the 'fun factor', I prefer to carry and shoot the 28, it feels light, handles and shoots well. So if it is right for the job I use it, if I need more shot, the 12 goes out ... more weight: better recoil control.

One explanation I was given for the 'gentler behaviour' of the 28 was that they run at a higher chamber pressure so require less, powder to achieve a similar shot speed - sounds feasible?.

I know some people who see them as an ideal gun for both learners and experts - a win-win!

good luck with your sons shooting career.

[Daveo26]

Iv just been through this getting my 10 yr old brother shooting,

He is using a tiny, super light folding .410 and breaks a few clays with it,

I did look at chopping a single 20 b down for him but i still think its too much gun for him.

Iv heard people say kids lose interest because .410 are hard to hit anything with but he loves shooting it.

[markm]

My cynergy 28g is the best shotgun I have ever owned. Plus with good cartirdges its a fantastic killer. I am using 28g 28gm 6 express that are £8 a box. But just bought some black gold 32gm 5's in 12g for a let day and they were £6.75 a box so not that big a difference per shot.

[MC]

I'll echo all the comments about the 28 bore, mine is a turkish O/U and I use 21gr loads. It is as potent as a 12 bore and I have shot some decent high birds with mine. Recoil just doesn't happen and it is more forgiving than a .410.

[Daveo26]

My cynergy 28g is the best shotgun I have ever owned. Plus with good cartirdges its a fantastic killer. I am using 28g 28gm 6 express that are £8 a box. But just bought some black gold 32gm 5's in 12g for a let day and they were £6.75 a box so not that big a difference per shot.

 

 

28 gram 28 bore loads!!!!!! really? whats the point? does it not defeat the object?

[Daveo26]

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/ammo/1335...cartridges.html

 

Found this interesting

[markm]

28 gram 28 bore loads!!!!!! really? whats the point? does it not defeat the object?

 

 

Cos I can.

 

But to justify to you lord (joking) -

 

1. It comes up well.

2. The pattern and killing range is fantastic (no pricked birds).

3. Its very light to walk around with.

4. Recoil is minimal if any.

5. I like the gun.

6. The gun looks nice.

7. I enjoy shooting it with 28gms.

8. It gives me confidence.

9. I don't mind spending the money on carts.

10. Its different.

11. My 7 year old will use it when he get big enough to handle it with 16g cartridges.

12. Fun factor but tooled up to take life.

 

Do you want more?

Edited December 18, 2009 by markm

[malkiserow]

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/ammo/1335...cartridges.html

 

Found this interesting

 

 

Indeed it is, I wonder what an updated picture might be? anyone any ideas?

[edr]

The .410 put me off a bit, i couldnt hit anything, but the positives are the lack of sound and recoil

 

EDR

[Daveo26]

Cos I can.

 

But to justify to you lord (joking) -

 

1. It comes up well.

2. The pattern and killing range is fantastic (no pricked birds).

3. Its very light to walk around with.

4. Recoil is minimal if any.

5. I like the gun.

6. The gun looks nice.

7. I enjoy shooting it with 28gms.

8. It gives me confidence.

9. I don't mind spending the money on carts.

10. Its different.

11. My 7 year old will use it when he get big enough to handle it with 16g cartridges.

12. Fun factor but tooled up to take life.

 

Do you want more?

 

I think you misunderstand my loyal subject..........

Im all for the small bores, i shoot a .410 and a 20 more often than a 12 at live stuff.

Im just abit bamboozled about 28 grams cartridges in a 28 bore.

Iv got some 36grams for my 20 bore and they are horrid! 24 grams are much nicer to shoot I would have thought 21 grams in a 28 bore would be spot on?

It just seems alot for a little gun.

I wasnt knocking you, just abit baffled

[markm]

I think you misunderstand my loyal subject..........

Im all for the small bores, i shoot a .410 and a 20 more often than a 12 at live stuff.

Im just abit bamboozled about 28 grams cartridges in a 28 bore.

Iv got some 36grams for my 20 bore and they are horrid! 24 grams are much nicer to shoot I would have thought 21 grams in a 28 bore would be spot on?

It just seems alot for a little gun.

I wasnt knocking you, just abit baffled

 

When you posted the 28g link I knew you were a small gauge shooter me lord -

 

I have tried, 16, 19, 21, 24 and 28gms. I find that 16 - 21 are to light a load for anything other than close up birds that most 12 g shooters would either leave or just have a go at. I find 24 - 28 the best and I feel no difference between 21 gms and 28 gms. I think brownings recoil system used on the cynergy is to blame.

[Daveo26]

When you posted the 28g link I knew you were a small gauge shooter me lord -

 

I have tried, 16, 19, 21, 24 and 28gms. I find that 16 - 21 are to light a load for anything other than close up birds that most 12 g shooters would either leave or just have a go at. I find 24 - 28 the best and I feel no difference between 21 gms and 28 gms. I think brownings recoil system used on the cynergy is to blame.

 

Fair enough, I need to try a 28 bore but i suspect it might get expensive

How much are the cartridges? You said £8 for the 28 grams so presumably the lighter are cheaper?

[markm]

24g eley about £6.50, the rest are above £5.50. But like I say many 12g are that price anyway. Try one, you will be impressed. I had a Browning 425 20g which I really wish I got on with but it put a doubt about small gauge shooting in my mind. Could hit clays 247 but on game it was unreal shooting at everything and missed everything. I plan to do a test (fair) this next few weeks. shoot a 28, 20 and 12 28gm 6 cart at a pattern plate from 30 yards with same choke and find out the out come. Got the guns and the 28 and 20 carts but need a 12 28g 6 12 cart. Anyone got one local?

[malkiserow]

24g eley about £6.50, the rest are above £5.50. But like I say many 12g are that price anyway. Try one, you will be impressed. I had a Browning 425 20g which I really wish I got on with but it put a doubt about small gauge shooting in my mind. Could hit clays 247 but on game it was unreal shooting at everything and missed everything. I plan to do a test (fair) this next few weeks. shoot a 28, 20 and 12 28gm 6 cart at a pattern plate from 30 yards with same choke and find out the out come. Got the guns and the 28 and 20 carts but need a 12 28g 6 12 cart. Anyone got one local?

 

 

If I was local, I would have helped

 

I've a Beretta Silver Pig 20 bore and love it. I chose a 687 model with 30 inch barrel and MC so it weighs in at 6.5 Lb which is really superb. I shoot as least as well with it as a 12 bore on live game. I often use light loads but have gone up to 28 grm and still very happy with felt recoil which is minimal.

[shaun4860]

24g eley about £6.50, the rest are above £5.50. But like I say many 12g are that price anyway. Try one, you will be impressed. I had a Browning 425 20g which I really wish I got on with but it put a doubt about small gauge shooting in my mind. Could hit clays 247 but on game it was unreal shooting at everything and missed everything. I plan to do a test (fair) this next few weeks. shoot a 28, 20 and 12 28gm 6 cart at a pattern plate from 30 yards with same choke and find out the out come. Got the guns and the 28 and 20 carts but need a 12 28g 6 12 cart. Anyone got one local?

 

what is it your after ... i have a bagfull of all odds and ****...

 

shaun

[henry d]

When you posted the 28g link I knew you were a small gauge shooter me lord -

 

I have tried, 16, 19, 21, 24 and 28gms. I find that 16 - 21 are to light a load for anything other than close up birds that most 12 g shooters would either leave or just have a go at. I find 24 - 28 the best and I feel no difference between 21 gms and 28 gms. I think brownings recoil system used on the cynergy is to blame.

 

 

OK guys, it`s not about you. it`s about a 10 year old !

 

If we give you a, for instance, 20 bore light game gun and it is bored out to say 3 1/2" chambers and shoots a 36 or 42gm load would you be happy to give it to a 10 year old ?

 

Gun, recoil system, cartridge weight, size of the person shooting all come into place.

[Daveo26]

OK guys, it`s not about you. it`s about a 10 year old !

 

If we give you a, for instance, 20 bore light game gun and it is bored out to say 3 1/2" chambers and shoots a 36 or 42gm load would you be happy to give it to a 10 year old ?

 

Gun, recoil system, cartridge weight, size of the person shooting all come into place.

 

I thought we were discussing the pros and cons of small bore shotguns for a 10 yrs old but fundamentally anyone.

Is whats written above not relevant to this thread?

I think this thread is very informative and perhaps has gone off an a slight tangent butt all the best threads do.

Back to your question, yes i would if i didnt like him

Edited December 18, 2009 by Daveo26

[hookbones]

its all about demand the bigger a market the less the cost so 12s are less expensive than 20s ,20s less than 410, 410 less than 16`s till we reach 28

 

i shoot a 20/410 combo u/o and iv found the 70mm 20 to be indistinguishable from a 3" 410 in sound and recoil ,the odd thing is i hit far more with the 410 for some reson

 

iv had a number of 28s and do like them but you need to feed them and thats got to be considered... also as for training welps with a 410 you can build up from the 2" in increments till he is using it with 3" mag confidently then if required it can be traded up as there is always a good market for them s/h. if you start him with something thats either heavy or bites back hes gonna just not enjoy it for long <i know of sooo many examples where dad gets a lil kid a gun to outshine n impress his mates n there kids only to have a cryin child b4 the days half over> im not saying thats the case here but think about what will be best for him/his size/his strength .... remember you have years to teach and encourage him and he can be put off for life in just a day.