955i Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 I have seen a few posts on here recently about people being on land where the pigeons are not feeding and how difficult it is to bring them in to the decoys. Now if I am not mistaken, pigeon are only covered under the general licence if they are a pest, which implies damage to the crops on the shooters land. Therefore, if the pigeons are not voluntarily feeding on the land and the only reason they land there is because of the decoys, is it still strictly legal to shoot them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Yes ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 This could technically become a grey area,but how i see it is the pigeons would no doubt be hitting someones land so are legitemate quarry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted December 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Yes ! Would you care to expand on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Would you care to expand on this? Yup, you set up on rape at this time of year and 10-100 woodpigeon will come in en masse and try to land, you have 1-2 or 3 shots and the next you see of them is next week. Come summer they will come into the same field after cropping and you will have one`s - two`s all day long, which is going to kill more (agriculturally damaging) birds ?? As for attracting them, isn`t the farmer complicent also as he sows crops attractive to them ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted December 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 Yup, you set up on rape at this time of year and 10-100 woodpigeon will come in en masse and try to land, you have 1-2 or 3 shots and the next you see of them is next week. Come summer they will come into the same field after cropping and you will have one`s - two`s all day long, which is going to kill more (agriculturally damaging) birds ?? As for attracting them, isn`t the farmer complicent also as he sows crops attractive to them ? I am not disputing the action, I also sit out at the moment wondering if I should use the deeks for target practise to justify the day out as the birds are not around I am just debating where the law lies when birds are still feeding elsewhere other than the crops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richie76 Posted December 18, 2009 Report Share Posted December 18, 2009 as i see it you only use the decoys to bring the offending crop munchers in to 'range' if you put the deeks out and you DON'T shoot any pigeons because there was none around, there cant have been any pests to control, if you put the deeks out and some pigeons DO decoy in to the pattern, how do you know they were going to land on the other side of the field to you and start eating, so you shoot them.. there for you are now controlling pests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Would you care to expand on this? NO ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 as i see it you only use the decoys to bring the offending crop munchers in to 'range' if you put the deeks out and you DON'T shoot any pigeons because there was none around, there cant have been any pests to control, if you put the deeks out and some pigeons DO decoy in to the pattern, how do you know they were going to land on the other side of the field to you and start eating, so you shoot them.. there for you are now controlling pests :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonsterandmerlin. Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 I have seen a few posts on here recently about people being on land where the pigeons are not feeding and how difficult it is to bring them in to the decoys. Now if I am not mistaken, pigeon are only covered under the general licence if they are a pest, which implies damage to the crops on the shooters land. Therefore, if the pigeons are not voluntarily feeding on the land and the only reason they land there is because of the decoys, is it still strictly legal to shoot them? I think you could be correct if it could be proven as you state under the general licence that we all shoot pigeons under. But there is the problem proving that is the case as most dont know one crop from another and if that crops being damage. But if you really looked at the general licence we would not be able to perform roost shooting as the birds are not causing damage to any crops ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 But they would be eating the crop the next morning wouldnt they....The general consensus is that the pigeons dont actually have to be eating the crop at the time that you shoot them because its accepted that they will be at some point. Its a bit like shooting a Fox.....we dont wait til we see one merrily trotting along with a pheasant or chicking dangling from his mouth before we give it the lead sleeping pill...it gets it because at some point it will take a bird or several...and no its not classed as Vermin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 (edited) It's a bit like seeing a geezer, standing in a doorway looking shifty, in a tracksuit, with a baseball cap and a burberry scarf, 10 pack of Mayfairs and a can of Stella, with a staff cross in a leather and brass body harness - He hasn't committed a crime yet - But you know he is going to!! Plus as previous post - Classed as vermin Edited December 19, 2009 by Fatcatsplat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuck. Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) Everyone saying something along the lines of "it's ok because they will at some point", I thought you had to "demonstrate that appropriate non-lethal methods of control such as scaring are either ineffective or impracticable". How could you "demonstrate that appropriate non-lethal methods of control such as scaring are either ineffective or impracticable" before said crops/livestock were affected by the pigeons, i.e before pigeons became an issue i.e before pigeons attacked your crops?? Edited December 21, 2009 by Shuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 ........How could you "demonstrate that appropriate non-lethal methods of control such as scaring are either ineffective or impracticable" before said crops/livestock were affected by the pigeons, i.e before pigeons became an issue i.e before pigeons attacked your crops?? Because many people have been using these methods for many many years and they are ineffective as woodpigeon are still on the "list", if the other methods were effective then we wouldn`t be shooting them. Many times I have seen a field of rape being hammered and the gas gun go off, the woodpigeon just take flight, circle and land again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hookbones Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 if a farmer has 5 fields and you can only stake out 1 then decoying is the only way to draw the quarry to your lil corner thus protecting the lot.. a guy i shoot with puts timed bangers in other fields that results in lifting feeding birds and moving them on till they get to our position ..its noted that from the roost they are fairly set in where they feed and once disturbed you can get an idea of where they will go next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Because many people have been using these methods for many many years and they are ineffective as woodpigeon are still on the "list", if the other methods were effective then we wouldn`t be shooting them. Many times I have seen a field of rape being hammered and the gas gun go off, the woodpigeon just take flight, circle and land again. Since it's christmas i will aree with HenryD It is not realistic for a farmer to try and "scare" birds off crops every day,so if he tried with a banger a few weeks back and they are still raiding the crops then you have your "impractical and innefective"so you have the green light to shoot them. As for roost shooting,you are merely shooting them after they have left the scene of the crime so they are fair game as they will be returning to the crime scene in the morning.If you want to ease your guilt then pull their crop out and it will be full of evidence (rape). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuck. Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) Because many people have been using these methods for many many years and they are ineffective as woodpigeon are still on the "list", if the other methods were effective then we wouldn`t be shooting them. Many times I have seen a field of rape being hammered and the gas gun go off, the woodpigeon just take flight, circle and land again. I whole-hartedly agree with everything said here, but I thought that to control pests under the general license, a shooter needs to be satisfied that they have themselves tried non-lethal methods prior. It's mainly this reason why I've not wanted to pursue pest controlling any further.. it'd be just my luck if my operating under the license was suddenly questioned and I'd have no proof that the specific pests being controlled were proved by me to be resillient to less lethal methods. Since it's christmas i will aree with HenryD It is not realistic for a farmer to try and "scare" birds off crops every day,so if he tried with a banger a few weeks back and they are still raiding the crops then you have your "impractical and innefective"so you have the green light to shoot them. As for roost shooting,you are merely shooting them after they have left the scene of the crime so they are fair game as they will be returning to the crime scene in the morning.If you want to ease your guilt then pull their crop out and it will be full of evidence (rape). I remember seeing something in the general license that you had to try at least three methods before resorting to killing them, then again that is a pretty absurd proposition for someone as busy as a farmer While we're on the subject, if a pigeon is causing me a loss of earnings because he's decided to **** all over my car and the acid'y-excrement has reacted and degraded the quality of the paint job.. would I be entitled to shoot it under the general license? I am genuinely asking this question. Edited December 21, 2009 by Shuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Sarakun Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Would that not damage the car even further, I mean, if it was sitting on the bonnet, you would blow out the windscreen, and so on. Or were you planning on shooting it when it did the fly by? That could prove to be a long wait. Your best bet would be to shoot it in the dining room, you may get some of the family there too, don't wait for it to go to the toilet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Now if I am not mistaken, pigeon are only covered under the general licence if they are a pest, which implies damage to the crops on the shooters land. Therefore, if the pigeons are not voluntarily feeding on the land and the only reason they land there is because of the decoys, is it still strictly legal to shoot them? its not just feeding on fields that they can be culled for, a danger to livestock, ie eating there food, crapping in their food is one reason, or a public health hazard, build up of gauno etc, yes officer we did all we could to move them on, before you arrived scarecrows/bangers/ etc, but that did'nt work, culling is our only option While we're on the subject, if a pigeon is causing me a loss of earnings because he's decided to **** all over my car and the acid'y-excrement has reacted and degraded the quality of the paint job.. would I be entitled to shoot it under the general license?I am genuinely asking this question. no, you cant shoot it for crapping on your car, but you can shot it for crapping on the pavement next to your car, as this can be classed as a health hazard/slippery when wet etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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