955i Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) This comes due to another thread where someone has been asking about controlling rats, rabbits, weasel, mink and fox at a livery. Now my perception is that in this instance, rats and rabbits can indeed be pests but the other species are simply animals going about their business in this context apart from the slight chance that a fox may build a den somewhere that a horse may turn an ankle in (yes, I know there may be a pheasant shoot XXX distance from here but this question is based on individual land parcels, not what is in the wider area). Similarly on arable land, a pigeon, rabbit, hare etc can be a pest, but a fox does no harm to the crops and can help to control the others so to my mind (and to the dictionary definition of the words) ceases to be classed as a pest or vermin. If it is a large enough parcel of land then it is possible that these animals will not even leave it (fox range up to 250ha, weasel 4-8ha, mink around 5 ha) to cause problems in the surrounding area. I have no problem with people controlling species where necessary, although I will not shoot foxes, weasel or stoat myself, but where there is no threat to any livestock from them is there still a justication for giving them the classification of pest or vermin and killing them regardless? Interested in peoples views on the matter. Edited December 31, 2009 by 955i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadbreakfast Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 well any pest needs controlling, if the fox isnt damaging crops or livestock yes you could say its not causing problem and it could help controll other pest, but then it digs holes, leaves a mess,sprayes everywere so it stinks, and goes to the next farm and kills livestock and gamebirds ect and youv got a family of foxs on your land because you wont shoot them. is that not a pest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) Well, mink should be eradicated from the UK regardless of whether they're causing specific problems to a horse or not. They shouldn't be here and are only infesting the place because of the actions of a bunch of tree-hugging *****. As for the rest, I've got mixed feelings. I'm not a game shooter, so I don't have this blind hatred of all things predatory. I regard stoats and weasels as indigenous British species and competitors with man for game, though I can understand a farmers hatred if he has had one of the little ******** in his hen house I'm also not one of these plinking freakos who just seem to want to kill "stuff" (can I shoot seagulls etc etc etc) Edited December 31, 2009 by Chard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 A serial killer is still a serial killer when he is sitting at home watching TV. Focusing on the periods of inactivity between the killing does not make him less of a serial killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinea Fowl Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 I have no problem with people controlling species where necessary, although I will not shoot foxes, weasel or stoat myself, but where there is no threat to any livestock from them is there still a justication for giving them the classification of pest or vermin and killing them regardless? You ask "if there is no threat to any livestock is there still justification" well mate you might not like it but a lot of shooting of live animals these days is for sport and nothing ells, I don`t care that you eat it afterwords or not. most not all will shoot anything given the chance and it`s a sport, yes folk on this side of the pond don`t like to say it but that`s the truth. The word pest control is simply just a means of justification to the anti and so on, I am not talking about professional pest controller here ! I will shoot foxes or other species on land where they are not a threat to any other livestock, providing it is manageable and sustainable simply because I enjoy doing it as a sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 I will shoot foxes or other species on land where they are not a threat to any other livestock, providing it is manageable and sustainable simply because I enjoy doing it as a sport. Can you say that before the watershed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyCM Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 If you control foxes & other predators the wild birds will flourish. Maybe deer do better too with less foxes about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadbreakfast Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 pest controll is what it says.pest are annoying things or something causing damage or mess which are not wanted on our land.and poaches but they are the pests you wish you could controll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyCM Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 pest controll is what it says.pest are annoying things or something causing damage or mess which are not wanted on our land.and poaches but they are the pests you wish you could controll + ramblers, right to roamers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinea Fowl Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Can you say that before the watershed? Yes I can say it my wife shed her water 3 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Yes I can say it my wife shed her water 3 years ago On a serious note though aren't there some vermin species where you can kill them only if you can show that they are specifically being a pain in the harris locally? (in other words, you can't shoot them for sport) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 i dont really worry about it and just go by what the farmer says - if he wants foxes left, we leave them, if they want all rabbits cleared out, we do our best, and as for mink/stoat/weasel i cant remember when the last time was i saw one if i havnt been asked to shoot something i usually dont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 might be wrong but can't you only shoot pigeon for crop protection and not sport? where's the man from BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) It depends upon your interest. An arable farmer will regard hare, pigeon, rabbit and roe deer as a pest, he will look upon fox, buzzard stoat and weasel as allies as predators upon hiss pests or vermin. A shooting person will regard the same predators as enemies and where permitted should make every effort to cull their numbers to protect his quarry species. Blackpowder Edited December 31, 2009 by Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Fudd Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) edit - delete Edited December 31, 2009 by babbyc1000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 I can think of a few human species who are vermin and the world would be better off wothout, dealers, paedos etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted December 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 A shooting person will regard the same predators as enemies and where permitted should make every effort to cull their numbers to protect his quarry species. I am a shooting person and I don't see any of them as an enemy! In fact I quite like seeing foxes when I am out and really like it when I get the rare opportunity to see stoats or weasels. I am sure there are enough rabbits and pigeons to go round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Im a full time pestie, does anyone know the meaning of the word "pest" ... its "something living in close proximity to man" so any animal out there, is only a pest because of us, they WERE here first, our cities and towns become bigger, we spread into green belt areas, and then that RAT that was living quite happily doing its job of clearing up the "waste" then becomes a pest, because of US so ANY animal/insect, can at some point be classed as a pest if seen to be annoying US, some get put on "the list" while others get taken off, but whatever species is out there, you do, by law, need to show that you have done everything possible to stop it being a pest to you, before killing, killing deemed as the last option now, most of us live in the real world, and know it dont work like that, the nicest of people out there, get an attack/infestation of a pest species, they just want it DEAD, forget being nice to that cute squirrel in my attic, blow its ****** head off up until last year, I had a liking for urban foxes, scavangers of the dustbin, Id always smile when I saw one sniffing around peoples bins, that was untill it killed last years duck (xmas dinner 2009) and left in laying there, then the fox became my no1 enemy, now when seeing one, I still smile, but for a totally different reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpicide Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 One of the farms I control foxes on is mostly horses but it is over run with foxes local householders were feeding them the farmer paid £180 vets bill after a fox attack on one of his cats. One of the main problems we face here is because these foxes are used to local dogs our terriers have to work so much harder to shift them. Remember foxes can carry canis toxicara leptospirosis (weils disease) saracoptic mange (scabies in humans). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttalbot09 Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 i dont like foxes being shot because they are beatiful, but if they are killing livestock etc. then it has to happen, out of intrest is the fox population still huge or running low ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted January 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 i dont like foxes being shot because they are beatiful, but if they are killing livestock etc. then it has to happen, out of intrest is the fox population still huge or running low ? I don't think they are in any imminent trouble. A recent survey in the Journal of Applied Ecology estimated the UK population at around 260, 000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Going back to the original post; foxes, stoats, etc are unlikely to be a pest to an equine business therefore if I was controlling pests for this business I wouldn't kill them. In actual fact they might be beneficial in that they hunt rabbits and rats. I shoot vermin on a pheasant and partridge shoot located on arable land and therefore foxes, stoats, squirrels, pigeons and the like that don't hurt equine businesses are on my hit list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Thanks to my neighbours either side of my house and their free range chickens, i've now got a fox problem. Usually i'm quite happy to leave the foxes be but we have got a rather expensive cat, he's come in on several occasions a bit battered and bruised but we thought nothing much of it other than it had probably been fighting the neighbours cat. Now i'm not so sure as i recently spotted fox droppings in my garden. I understand the need to control numbers and protect livestock, but we've been here 15years and not had much sign of them until recently. We've also seen a rise in the rat population, personally i'd rather shoot all their ****** chickens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli montefeltro Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 i wonder how the die hard fox men on here, who advocate killing them on sight, would feel if foxes were totally eradicated, extinct on these shores? well thats the pest gone for good right? pheasants will flourish, brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratman2 Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 i wonder how the die hard fox men on here, who advocate killing them on sight, would feel if foxes were totally eradicated, extinct on these shores? well thats the pest gone for good right? pheasants will flourish, brilliant. I do quite a bit of pest controll and I'm a country lad born and bred. I've been in pest control one way or another for about forty years. I've dealt with many a fox to keep numbers down, but I wouldn't want to see them eradicated, no way. It's all about balance. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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