JonnyR Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 All, I am hoping you can help because I have finally lost it. I have 2.5 year old cocker dog, as my first dog, which I realize now was a big mistake but... training has been very hard and he is slowly coming on but just recently he has taken to running off. Training has been mixed and I have tried 2 different cocker men, the first of whom told me he was waste of time and I am beginning to understand why! More recently he has calmed down a little and with a lot of work I can keep him close to me off the lead and even manage to get him to walk to heel off the lead. This season I have tried taking him out to do a bit of picking up and he has been ok. Yesterday, as an example, he picked a dead cock from a bush which I couldn't see and then a hen after that. But he pulls like mad on the lead between drives and shales and whines constantly once the drive has started. I think I do all the basics right - praise him loads when he does well and chastise when he doesn't, but he just doesn't seem to listen and it is driving me and my wife mad. I have just come back in from a walk when he ran off again and got to within feet of a busy A road and fear he is going to get run over soon. Options now seem to be; keep him as a pet Sell/give him away - he lives in the house and has a fantastic nature so this would be hard Have him put down - not an option as far as I am concerned Electric collar Wait for him to grow up and continue with the hell of trying to train him Get another dog, say a lab, and hope he 'learns' from that. Words cannot describe how frustrated/angry/stressed I feel at this point. I am not good at failure and feel like I am really letting him down as, on the face of it, he seems to have the makings of a really great dog and like most I love him to bits. Sorry for the rant but I needed to get it off my chest. PS Happy New Year. cheers, Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 keep at it when you say 'cocker men' do you mean you've paid for professional lesson's?.If not then try some,i found them really helpful because it was me if i'm honest that needed the training Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyR Posted December 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Hi, Yes I did pay for a few lessons with folk who breed and trial cockers but the second, who was good, was too far away to make it sensible. I have since spoken to my local keeper who is also a cocker man and hope to see him once the season is finished. Should have gone to him first if I am honest! thanks for the support. Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t jack Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 this deffo sounds like a fixable problem imo, can you not place him with a pro trainer for a month, im 100% sure this could be sorted if he stayed with a trainer for a month, may cost you a few hundered but cheaper than buying a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprocket Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Jon PM sent Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christy Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 You have my sympathy, I was there once. I had a springer, cost lots. Bought from one of the top men in the springer world. Couldn't controll her in the field but could easily at home. That was 20 yrs ago. Looking back I now understand what went wrong. Me! My neighbour today is the local keeper. He has 4 dogs. Two are pets (wifes pets) and live in the house, two are Springers and the live in a Kennel outside. Not to far away are a run of three olde cottages two ends and a middle, close to the manor house. The first one asked me to do some work for them. Taking a cuppa mid morning outside I asked what are those small stone built shacks at the end of the garden? Oh the keeper, many years ago (20s 30s?) lived here and that is were he kept his dogs. See where I'm going...of course you do. Working dog or pet. The guy up the road-keeper face is hard on them dogs. He takes no nonsense whatsoever. But hey they adore him. He exercisess them every single day twice a day, dawn and dusk. The bond is strong and easy to see, but built on toughness. The reason they adore him and do as they are told, is because he is their master. He has the keys to thier cell. They want to please him. So there you have it imo. Pet or worker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyR Posted December 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Hi, Yes I agree that is one of the problems, but I have no garden in which to build a kennel so until I move I have to make the best of it. I am off to see the keeper up the road from me once the season is finished and if he can't help then I think he will just have to be a pet, who gets taken to shoots on a lead from time to time. regards, Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plinker Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 plenty of good working cockers living in houses so that blows that out of the water. work only on his recall where there is little or no scent and then do the same on ground holding birds.dont let anyone else walk him,dont give up on him have faith in him and yourself and you will get him to a decent standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 My lads it a pet, bought him to get the kids over a fear of dags as we had a terrier that went potty and bite everybody. Bought from a working background with well over half the lines are FTCH. this has given me a hot dog as im told but not having one before i wouldn't know. in the house he is the best pet you could wish for, out the house he is getting there. he is 16 mths old and we do have our problems but out on a shoot last week he was well behaved. out pigeon shooting with me he is great, out rough shooting he needs more work. roost shooting he is just out for a walk in the woods. I get comments all the time on how good he is but hese are from pet dog owners. in my mine he needs a hell of a lot more work but then he is a house pet and a field dog all in one so he is 50/50. this to me, means that his training will only be as good as 50/50. He is my first dog ever, apart from the terrier that we picked up from a shelter and she has to go bad(didnt like kids) Before i bought my pup i said to myself that this one will be the learner and the next one will be better and the one after that better still. i have ordered my next pup from the same breeder as i dont want to stop at one. If i can find a part trained dog, not bitch, then i will take that on as well as long as it is house trained and no aggression. cockers and labs are two different beasts so you will not calm the cocker down with a lab. Something i was told a while ago. a cocker is a little person, a lab is a lab. stick with it mate, dont push so hard, but at the same time your the pack leader, your pup is at the bottom of the ladder. what you say goes. If you do go down the route of calling it a day then please look me up as im only up the road. Sorry if this is a little all over the place but a night on jack dans has taken its toll and im one eye typing.hehe ATB Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 dont give up...... ive a cocker who also lives in house and is the biggest softest thing on the sofa....but say shooting or ducks and watch her change... they are hard work and the more you put in the more u get out mine is just past2 and i have ceen loads of changes in her this season tho she still has those moments when i cd shoot her(joking but u know what i mean) but thats really my fault for her training......but we wil get there...lol(we will we will) my limit for walking to heel is sbout 100yds and thats progress from about 2 feet and then zooming off.... wee quick tip on the pulling....id guess u using a slip lead, instead of having it down round her neck just lift it higher up so as it tucks almost behind the ears round bttm of chin and shorten lead in ur hand this really stops mine pulling and your not choking at all ,,, u shd have straightish lead bout prob 2ft long and dog at ur side,,,,this is hard to explain but try it and hopefully it may help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprocket Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Jon Have you read your personal mail? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuey Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Here's my little monkey. Very headstrong little lady calle Indie. Grandad is Argyll Warrior. Now 8 months old. Not too bad on the lead, but has now decided she won't return to the whislte, and although she is great at the first part of the retrieve - waits until I send her for it, decides not to bring it back all the time. Bit of a pocket rocket and maybe too much for my first dog, but will be getting some gundog lessons after the game season has finished to help with how to correct her (my) mistakes. Mone well spent I think. Love her to bits. Cheers Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbsy Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I know how your feeling as i have been there and hopefully now out the other side, my 18 month cocker was doing exactly what yours is doing, basically free hunting. I went back to basics ie building a bond with dog again, obedience and particularly the stop whistle as if you can get him to stop and stay on the whistle and go to him your half way there. PM me if you want further info of what ive done Regards Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesman Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Hi mate, take my advice with a pinch of salt but I've done pretty well with a few spaniels. In my experience, spaniels don't respond well to punishment. When you say you chastise him when he doesn't do something right, it could be that he catches a scent, runs but then hears your voice change tone and he doesn't want to come back for fear of chastisement. If he doesn't do something correct, I've found the worst punishment ever for spaniels.......ignore them. They hate it and will do anything to get your attention back.... ie by doing something right. I suggest you work on his recall and maybe try and introduce a whistle. With regards the heel, labs are so easy to train. Spaniels are not so simple. You can do the sharp turn when he pulls, or you can hold his favourite toy in your hand and keep his attention on you that way. Eventually it will start to dawn on him that if he stays close while on the lead, he gets a reward like his toy or to hunt. Just remember that spaniels have been bred to hunt and go after scents, and you don't want to discourage him from doing that. You just need to have a bit more control over how and when he hunts. Finally, if you're struggling with him and feel like you're not making progress, PM me. I may take him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I would put this dog through an obediance program with alot of positive motivation. You can find the one I use pinned in this section. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I would agree that cockers are funny old dogs; if you tell them off they sulk like good'uns - they are clever and sensitive. Mine got funny about getting in the back of the car when the day was over. I had had enough - we were in the middle of 1000 acres on the farm and so I just got in my car and drove off slowly. The dog was then desperate to come back and get in the car. After a spell, I stopped the car, opened the back door and she jumped in good as gold and that was the end of that - she never did it again. Take the dog to the middle of nowhere and give it a spin. It may turn into brinkmanship / battle of the wills - lets hope you aren't bested by the dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I would agree that cockers are funny old dogs; if you tell them off they sulk like good'uns - they are clever and sensitive. Mine got funny about getting in the back of the car when the day was over. I had had enough - we were in the middle of 1000 acres on the farm and so I just got in my car and drove off slowly. The dog was then desperate to come back and get in the car. After a spell, I stopped the car, opened the back door and she jumped in good as gold and that was the end of that - she never did it again. Take the dog to the middle of nowhere and give it a spin. It may turn into brinkmanship / battle of the wills - lets hope you aren't bested by the dog Only had to do that with the kids once as well ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris o Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 you just have to be patient and not let the dog see you are getting wound up and frustrated. the springer i have now is a cracking dog and he lives in doors. he has a crate and he is just left in the kitchen and only sees some one when we let him out for a wee to make a drink or meals and that it. as you are garden is not big enough to have a kennel and run and the area we live in he will end up stolen or poisend. he knows all the basics i.e sit, stay, comes when asked sometimes asked a few times but after 2 times of calling him i go after him a lil tug on his ear put him on the lead for a bit then let hi off. he is only 5 and half months but i have chilled down and let him do what he wants at home but when i take him out he does what i want. be patient and go after him when he bolts and let him know he done wrong. but get some help aswell. good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Firstly has he still got his nuts? If so get them off him and it will help, dogs are hard work and will run you ragged unless you are fairly lucky. They tend to be more dominant and do tend to be the ones that will clear off on you, then get some lessons with your keeper and see what he thinks. On a side issue I'd also bung an e collar on simply because if you're loosing the dog and its likely to get run over then it will stop it straight away. I know there are lots of mixed views on them but fundamentally its dangerous for your dog and the driver that hits him, I find with careful use they are like a long lead you can pick the dog up straight away on things rather then when its too late and they are back with you. Keep at it and though you may not have the best gun dog if it lives in the house fundamentally most on here are pets as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipper33 Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 PM Sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentbarrel Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 I had excatly the same problem with my bitch! I just left all 'advanced' training and went straight back to basics with recall in the house, then moved on to the garden then at close range at work and then finally on walks etc. Its a long process bu the results are worth it. I used some liver bread to to reward her at first, it was like a dog magnet getting her back!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 (edited) Don't think anybody's said it yet but DO NOT take him picking up again this year, or beating. He is young and it sounds like he is getting too much and learning he can get away with it. Back to basic training and reintroduce him to game gradually NEXT season. Definitely curable but with him being a bit more mature it will take time to sort out. If you have the patience to sort it, you will be able to. Keeping calm and managing the environment to minimise the opportunities he has to misbehave will be far more productive than constant reprimands... easy to say but a lot more difficult to achieve. Edit to say: plenty of steady, experienced and well trained picking up dogs get a bit ragged by this time in the season - by giving a youngster too much he is just getting too hot to handle. Edited January 5, 2010 by wgd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyR Posted January 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Don't think anybody's said it yet but DO NOT take him picking up again this year, or beating. He is young and it sounds like he is getting too much and learning he can get away with it. Back to basic training and reintroduce him to game gradually NEXT season. Definitely curable but with him being a bit more mature it will take time to sort out. If you have the patience to sort it, you will be able to. Keeping calm and managing the environment to minimise the opportunities he has to misbehave will be far more productive than constant reprimands... easy to say but a lot more difficult to achieve. Edit to say: plenty of steady, experienced and well trained picking up dogs get a bit ragged by this time in the season - by giving a youngster too much he is just getting too hot to handle. Thanks WGD, this makes a lot of sense as he has been pretty good up til recently and especially before I started taking him out picking up! I only have few more days left to shoot this season then I will take him up to see our local keeper, who is a big time cocker trialler too. I also have access to a smallish release pen which I can use to control the environment so hopefully this will all help. Will let you all how I get on - thanks again for all the support and advice. cheers, Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyR Posted April 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Hi All, A quick update on Monty. I started seeing him with my local keeper - Glynn Smith just after the season ended and so far we have had about 6 sessions. I have to say he is like a different dog, so hats off to Glynn for that. We have gone right back to basics with sit, recall and heel commands and he is now progressing onto hunting, under control, in the pen being taught to 'LEAVE THAT'. I now have the summer to really get him right before next season, so here is hoping. thanks for all your support. cheers, Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniel Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Glad to hear it, he looks a smashing dog but like all Spaniels they just love to hunt. Both mine are kept in the house and both are working dogs so the combination does work If you need some further training i started with a guy down here in Hanham/Kingswood and if you fancy taking him beating im involved with a small shoot in the chippenham area, not loads of birds so you could work him this season with the added odd flush of game etc, just let me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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