CPSA - why

[Mungler]

Indeed. Good luck to Nick. Lets hope it's not a big fat waste of his time.

 

Just to refresh our memories, how have things improved in the year following the great AGM coup? That was special

 

Bin the lot of it and have CPSA "lite" which will:

 

1. provide insurance

2. collect scores - some web based platform that any old monkey / ground owner could handle

3. bin the mag - it's a waste of money. Fall back, do it by email

4. open up local leagues - this would be a feeder for the national big comps

 

I could go on, but hey, what do I know, I'm not in the CPSA......

Edited January 26, 2010 by Mungler

[Mr Potter]

Yes, well said Nick, glad you've made the commitment to try and put something back into the sport.

 

I'll answer Yellow Bears question with another question, "What do BASC do for the ordinary shooter who is too dumb / lazy / ignorant to become a paid up member of BASC..??"............................................... Answer - absolutely nothing, why should they..??

 

Surely the same analogy applies to the CPSA, they're not there to represent the interests of the "straw baler" who'd rather spend his money on fags and scratch cards than join a recognised shooting body, what a waste of money..!!

 

Cat.

 

Surely the question should be what do the CPSA do to encourage those "straw bale" clayshooters to join the CPSA. Promising the chance to shoot for your county/country is not going to appeal to the many tens of thousands of "casual" Sunday shooter who probably enjoy their sport as much as you or I do but whose horizons, for whatever reason, stretch no further than beating Joe or Fred and making sure they are in the Pub before 12:30.

One thing for sure is that I don't know the answer, I don't think that they, the straw balers, know what they want and I don't suppose the CPSA know what they want or even need!

 

Would it be a problem if the CPSA stopped trying to be all things to all men (or even all persons in this PC age) Accept that there are approx 25,000 people England who want to shoot competitively and concentrate all their efforts on them and their requirements.

In an ideal world they could additionally, perhaps in conjunction with BASC or CA, offer a much reduced package that would offer insurance and representation for give or take £20 to £25 a year. To be honest I believe it should be a legal requirement that anyone with a SG or FA cert. can demonstrate they have adequate insurance cover.

What about clubman membership I hear you say, well the CPSA managed to try and sell it on the basis that you could shoot at 1 registered ground and it is still too expensive at £32.

 

So to sum up I don't know the answer, I do know I'm vaguely dissatisfied with the CPSA, I feel it needs to be be more professionally run, more focused and try and address the difficult issues like those of diminishing numbers of grounds wanting to hold registered ESP competitions.

 

Mr Potter

Edited January 26, 2010 by Mr Potter

[paulos]

- Bring the clubman in line with the full membership and allow all members to shoot registered. At a compromised subscription rate of course.

 

- Actively encourage existing registered and premier grounds to hold more registered shoots. Promote registered shoots to currently non-registered grounds. When inspecting grounds applying for registered status, err on the side of granting registered status. If it is not 100%, shooters will vote with their feet, but allow them the chance to do so first.

 

- Scrap the day pass and allow non members to shoot birds only as well. If you are CPSA then you will have your score recorded and have a chance of money, if you are not, you will not.

 

- Organisation of team events amongst registered clubs. Not just 1 "Elite Team" - have B/C class teams and novice teams. People generally feel a lot more confident competing with a team rather than on their own. There are thousands of darts and domino teams across the country, but how many would have the inclination or nerve to travel to compete on their own? Let alone in another Town or even county.

 

- Regional/County B class and C class shoots, or handicapped events whereby more people stand a chance of winning something worthwhile. Not just "I won C class at the County Championship" but rather bang a sponsors name on the event so they can say "I won the Joe Bloggs County Shield".

 

- Abolish the glasses rule but stress the importance of wearing them.

 

Most of these can be organised by clubs themselves, but the CPSA should really be doing it if they really want to be seen as "The Governing Body".

 

:yes:

[Chard]

I suppose the thing that mystifies me more than anything is why it matters to haybalers

 

I drive a Volkswagen . Somewhere there is no doubt a VW Owners Club (I'm not a member).

 

I have no wish to see that club shut down. I don't lose sleep ranting over what exactly it is that the VW Owners Club does for me (as a fully paid-up card-carrying non-member).

 

What's the difference?

 

Shoot your haybale shoots, enjoy them. The CPSA isn't trying to get them banned. When you get bored with whacking the same old stuff every weekend, you'll either give up shooting and take up golf, or start shooting competitively. Then you might look on the CPSA differently. Like me, you might only look upon them as the organisers of the scoring and classification system that is the only means I have of measuring my progress at the sport. Nobody else is doing it. There's lots of talk about how easy it is to record a few scores, but nobody else is doing it. Some people look for a lot more out of it than me, but I don't really care about them. What I don't appreciate is a load of non-members deciding amongst themselves that I shouldn't have the CPSA system to use as I see fit. What the **** has it got to do with them?

Edited January 27, 2010 by Chard

[MC]

I see you all keep harping on about why the CPSA shouldn't support it's non members. I agree why should they?

 

But my question was I AM A MEMBER AND THEY DO SOD ALL, WHAT DO THEY DO FOR ME?

 

Even the club that WAS affiliated to them had a few safety posters which had the CPSA logo on them. And even then they had to BUY them. It wasn't enough to have to pay extorniate affiliation fees they then have to buy the extras.

 

The CPSA is a cash cow for a few who are not interested where that cash comes from as long as it does.

 

They are not interested in supporting or promoting registered shoots either otherwise every county would have their fair share and the CPSA would ensure this by talking to grounds and perhaps offering incentives for them to do it. You would think they may notice that a county is holding its own team selection shoots in at least two other counties and ask a question or two.

 

There are at least 4 grounds that I know of that are more than capable of holding decent registered shoots yet none of them do. Why is that?

 

Good luck to Nicky and good on him for standing up to be counted but being the doom monger that I am I do not believe he will stand next year. The Tarp and Squit boys will see to that.

 

Chard,

 

Straw bale shoots are not like Worsley you know. The ones I attend are different birds each week. Some of the birds would rival anything ever thrown at some of the registered shoots.

[Chard]

Chard,

 

Straw bale shoots are not like Worsley you know. The ones I attend are different birds each week. Some of the birds would rival anything ever thrown at some of the registered shoots.

 

I know what you're saying Martin, but it's not the quality of the targets that matters. If a shooter comes to the conclusion that social shooting (I'm going to stop calling it haybaling, because it applies equally to shooting birds only at "top" grounds) and they decide that they want to shoot competitively, even see how far they can get nationally, then it is going to take an organisation like the CPSA to facilitate that type of shooting. This of course is where we get to the problems with the CPSA. The fact that there are members, like yourself, who don't feel the CPSA is doing anything for them, probably comes about because of the lack of registered facilities in your part of the world (and mine now ). It might be that you're not interested in competition shooting and wouldn't be, even if you were surrounded by registered shoots, but I don't think that's the case. If you are not interested in competitive shooting, then I don't understand why you are a member and I don't think they would do much for you, other than provide expensive insurance and a badge However, I still don't see why they should be disbanded because of that. There are plenty of members in the country who are fortunate enough to have registered shoots on their doorstep - why should they lose it?

 

The CPSA should be made aware of these shortcomings and the increasingly large patches of the UK with no registered shoots, and maybe one day they'll do something about it. The fact is that their membership in these areas with no registered shoots will diminish, as there will seem little point in membership if the distances to shoots get too great. I am only still keen because I can get to shoots OK at the moment. If I don't have the car, there are others who are willing to drive. If that situation changed, I would ditch my membership too. So if you live in an area without registered shoots and/or don't want to shoot registered, then they don't offer you much. But that isn't the way it should be and I believe it could be changed

Edited January 27, 2010 by Chard

[Mungler]

Chard you have missed the point entirely.

 

The starting point is that I would like to shoot more competitively but I refuse and simply cannot spend the time to drive 200 miles each weekend to do so - not unreasonable in my books. Find anyone under 55 with a family who can?

 

There is nothing in the way of registered shoots in Essex and I understand the same can be said for Herts and other Counties.

 

Haybalers aren't just there to shoot and go down the pub as has been suggested. They would jump on board the CPSA if there was something in it for them or something the CPSA could offer them. Haybalers and those starting out must be the next "feeder" of members into the CPSA? Where else does the CPSA plan to get its new members from?

 

Why the CPSA should be there *just* to deal with the registered shooting I don't know - it seems like a rather limited market to me especially in Essex and Herts (for example).

 

The nub is that the CPSA collects score and that is all the competitive shooter wants (in tandem with a competition). I don't think the majority of competitive shooters even do it for the prize money - not when you look at the prizes compared to the cost of entry, cartridges and petrol.

 

It's a shame. I would like to shoot some registered events in Essex. There, look I am a potential customer of the CPSA and I shoot strawbalers - how can that be

[Chard]

Chard you have missed the point entirely.

 

The starting point is that I would like to shoot more competitively but I refuse and simply cannot spend the time to drive 200 miles each weekend to do so - not unreasonable in my books. Find anyone under 55 with a family who can?

 

There is nothing in the way of registered shoots in Essex and I understand the same can be said for Herts and other Counties.

 

Haybalers aren't just there to shoot and go down the pub as has been suggested. They would jump on board the CPSA if there was something in it for them or something the CPSA could offer them. Haybalers and those starting out must be the next "feeder" of members into the CPSA? Where else does the CPSA plan to get its new members from?

 

Why the CPSA should be there *just* to deal with the registered shooting I don't know - it seems like a rather limited market to me especially in Essex and Herts (for example).

 

The nub is that the CPSA collects score and that is all the competitive shooter wants (in tandem with a competition). I don't think the majority of competitive shooters even do it for the prize money - not when you look at the prizes compared to the cost of entry, cartridges and petrol.

 

It's a shame. I would like to shoot some registered events in Essex. There, look I am a potential customer of the CPSA and I shoot strawbalers - how can that be

 

 

Listen Chavvy

 

I don't see that that means I'm missing the point. Half of what you've just said is my post rearranged

 

Your main point is that the CPSA shouldn't just be about registered shooting. I'm sure they would argue that it isn't just about that. They would chirp on about insurance, training courses, coaching, opportunities for "furthering" yourself in clay shooting, monthly magazines, badges , probably some other stuff as well . It would seem that most people aren't as impressed with this package of goodies as the CPSA are, but I think there is a limit to what they can offer at grass-roots level. What is it that grass-roots shooters want from the CPSA, other than money, women and drugs?

 

It's debatable what these governing bodies should be all about, really. I suppose if you asked the average bloke on the street, he would mutter something about "they are there to further the sport", not really knowing what he means by that. "Furthering yourself" in the sport does tend to start leaning towards competitive shooting, it seems to be the nature of the beast, is that not the same with any sport? The Olympic Games seems to be at one end of the spectrum, it's just debatable about the other end.

 

I can see that non-competition shooters would wonder what they're paying their money for, but I don't understand what they exected to get out of it when they signed on the line

[Chard]

I've just been sitting here trying to think of a non-competitive sport

 

Answers on a postcard

[beretta]

wont find one with the name sport in i think

[Catamong]

It's a shame. I would like to shoot some registered events in Essex. There, look I am a potential customer of the CPSA and I shoot strawbalers - how can that be

 

Yes, we'd all like more Registered Sporting grounds, but it's not the responsibility of the CPSA to set up and run shooting grounds, that's down to individual entrepreneurs who take a gamble and invest their money in a venture that get closed down within a very short space of time if the "nimby's" get their way.

 

I think there's a bit of sour grapes and jealousy creeping in here, some people who can't be bothered to make the effort to get anywhere in the sport simply love knocking those that have spent all of their time and money to actually achieve something, pretty sad, ain't it..??

 

Cat.

[Mungler]

Yes Cat that's right or maybe it's just because we are chicken

[Nial]

I think there's a bit of sour grapes and jealousy creeping in here, some people who can't be bothered to make the effort to get anywhere in the sport simply love knocking those that have spent all of their time and money to actually achieve something, pretty sad, ain't it..??

Cat.

 

I think it's what you've just posted that's pretty sad Cat.

 

 

If you play most sports 'socially' you can usually join an association for insurance etc.

 

My experience is hockey where I started playing in my mid twenties and played for the 3rds/

4ths of a couple of clubs. I was too old and had started too late to be any good but enjoyed the

carack and exercise. At one point I hoped to get in to the 2nds but then we had our

two wee girls and that idea went out the window.

 

The hockey associations organised leagues at all levels, obviously with the aim to encourace new

blood into the sport. Over the years I was playing many youngsters came from the

colts, through the 4ths/3rds to the 2nd or 1st team. Without the leagues at the lower

levels they started after school there's a very good chance most of them would be

lost to the sport.

 

A couple of the guys who played with me in the 3rds when they were 15/16 ended up

in the national squad (I believe).

 

There was never any suggestion that because my ultimate goal wasn't to play for the

country that I wasn't welcome. In fact the numbers playing at different levels offered a

steady chance for improvement and progresssion for those coming up through the ranks.

 

I would like to improve my clay shooting. I can't afford the time (and many can't afford the

money) to commit to shooting every weekend, but I'd be out as often as possible.

 

If there was an organisation that organised shoots where I could compete against others

at my level, I'd probably join it.

 

But there doesn't seem to be.

 

It's madness to ignore the grass roots for the sake of the sport.

 

 

Nial.

[Chard]

I think it's what you've just posted that's pretty sad Cat.

 

 

If you play most sports 'socially' you can usually join an association for insurance etc.

 

My experience is hockey where I started playing in my mid twenties and played for the 3rds/

4ths of a couple of clubs. I was too old and had started too late to be any good but enjoyed the

carack and exercise. At one point I hoped to get in to the 2nds but then we had our

two wee girls and that idea went out the window.

 

The hockey associations organised leagues at all levels, obviously with the aim to encourace new

blood into the sport. Over the years I was playing many youngsters came from the

colts, through the 4ths/3rds to the 2nd or 1st team. Without the leagues at the lower

levels they started after school there's a very good chance most of them would be

lost to the sport.

 

A couple of the guys who played with me in the 3rds when they were 15/16 ended up

in the national squad (I believe).

 

There was never any suggestion that because my ultimate goal wasn't to play for the

country that I wasn't welcome. In fact the numbers playing at different levels offered a

steady chance for improvement and progresssion for those coming up through the ranks.

 

I would like to improve my clay shooting. I can't afford the time (and many can't afford the

money) to commit to shooting every weekend, but I'd be out as often as possible.

 

If there was an organisation that organised shoots where I could compete against others

at my level, I'd probably join it.

 

But there doesn't seem to be.

 

It's madness to ignore the grass roots for the sake of the sport.

 

 

Nial.

 

 

For a start you can join the CPSA just for the insurance, as in other sports, if that floats your boat, costs thirty-odd quid a year.

 

Theoretically, the infrastructure is there for grass roots shooters, young and old to enter at C Class level, improve and progress, same as in other sports. Apart from the big gaps in CPSA ground coverage in the UK, I don't see much different about what is offered at all levels in the CPSA to what is offered by your hockey organisations, to be honest. Main difference being that shooting is a bloody expensive sport compared to hockey.

 

I'm not saying they couldn't do more, but the possibilities are there, but it comes back to the problem that they have got huge swathes of the country without facilities, either because they've deregistered grounds for a variety of reasons (like in the North West) or for other reasons unknown to me (like Essex).

 

I think whoever originally came up with the idea that the CPSA aren't interested in shooters who don't want to shoot for the country was talking out of their harris, so there's no point in dwelling on that.

[Catamong]

If there was an organisation that organised shoots where I could compete against others

at my level, I'd probably join it.

 

But there doesn't seem to be.

 

Yes, there is an organistaion, it's called the CPSA.

 

Don't run away with the idea that you must be a hotshot to be a member, that's nonsense, just look at this list of scores from a recent shoot, the lower classes far outnumber the top shots..!!

 

http://www.cpsa.co.uk/scores/fixtures/38/4...y&class=Any

 

There's a lot of myths and mis-information being spread about on this thread.

 

Cat.

[MC]

Yes, we'd all like more Registered Sporting grounds, but it's not the responsibility of the CPSA to set up and run shooting grounds, that's down to individual entrepreneurs who take a gamble and invest their money in a venture that get closed down within a very short space of time if the "nimby's" get their way.

 

I think there's a bit of sour grapes and jealousy creeping in here, some people who can't be bothered to make the effort to get anywhere in the sport simply love knocking those that have spent all of their time and money to actually achieve something, pretty sad, ain't it..??

 

Cat.

 

Absolutely right Cat,

 

It is not the responsibility of the CPSA to set up and run shooting grounds but it is the responsibility of the so called governing body to support the grounds that do exist and promote registered shooting.

 

I would bet my next years wages that the CPSA do not know how many grounds there are in Essex and I would bet the year afters money on the fact that they have never been aproached about holding registered shoots.

 

It is the "Why should we care" attitude of the CPSA that gets my goat.

 

Chard,

 

I would love to be out shooting "Competitively" at registered shoots but as Mungler says I cannot afford the time or cash to be traipsing up to the midlands or south coast just to shoot a few clays that are "Supposedly" better quality birds than I will see at any of the clubs within a 15 mile radius of my front door.

 

My scores across both my regular clubs ranged from 37/50 to 49/50 over the last 12 months, why is that? Is it because the birds were the same every week and I just got better or is it that some weeks it was a fairly easy set up and others it was hard?

 

Following on from what Nial said if the county teams were made up from 2 people from each class instead of the top 1/2% of the elite then it would encourage more people to take part. My rifle shooting club does that and has most of the club shooting in teams in all 3 Essex leagues. That was everyone gets a shot at winning, not just the same old boring faces week in week out.

[Chard]

Chard,

 

I would love to be out shooting "Competitively" at registered shoots but as Mungler says I cannot afford the time or cash to be traipsing up to the midlands or south coast just to shoot a few clays

 

 

Take up hockey then

[MC]

Take up hockey then

 

I see you have fallen into the CPSA frame of mind and it didn't take long either.

[Nicky T]

Following on from what Nial said if the county teams were made up from 2 people from each class instead of the top 1/2% of the elite then it would encourage more people to take part. My rifle shooting club does that and has most of the club shooting in teams in all 3 Essex leagues. That was everyone gets a shot at winning, not just the same old boring faces week in week out.

 

Interesting idea and would hopefully increase the appeal of representing your County for many

[MC]

It may also help out the Intecounties attendance at the same time.

 

Hell with all these good ideas perhaps I should join the Essex regional comittee

[Catamong]

Yes, a good idea, but I'm afraid it can bring out the "Sandbaggers" in force, things can get nasty when you get so called "C" class shooters out performing the AA boys, the accusations start to fly, far better perhaps to encourage those who want to represent their County to invest the time and effort to reach AA standard..??

 

Cat.

[Nicky T]

It may also help out the Intecounties attendance at the same time.

 

Hell with all these good ideas perhaps I should join the Essex regional comittee

 

Both yourself and Mung should get on the case

[Chard]

I see you have fallen into the CPSA frame of mind and it didn't take long either.

 

Don't you start getting testicle with me, you Mersea lamp post thief

[MC]

Yes, a good idea, but I'm afraid it can bring out the "Sandbaggers" in force, things can get nasty when you get so called "C" class shooters out performing the AA boys, the accusations start to fly, far better perhaps to encourage those who want to represent their County to invest the time and effort to reach AA standard..??

 

Cat.

 

And the current class system ensures there is no sandbagging of course.

 

And yes lets keep the elite "Elite" who on earth with want to shoot with the riff raff anyway.

 

If you could only ever go up in clasifications then you would only ever be able to sandbag for 6 months ever. In rifle shooting once you have been in a certain class you don't ever go down. Once you have won a trophy in whatever class you are then up you go.

 

You will never find anyone on the target rifle range calculating what score they need to stay in a certain class Hey Peter

[100milesaway]

Both yourself and Mung should get on the case