barrowboy Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 This looks like a standard writen warning to me . These days they cannot just sack anyone ,you have to be given a warning in writeing first. This just gives them the chance to dismiss you ,and keep them on the right side of the law . And an easy way to reduce staff without having to pay you off . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 knowing two people who got given the heave ho from that very same company, it really doesn't surprise me.watch your back and make plans! And remember to steal everything that isn't bolted down. Raid the stationary cupboard on a regular basis, the worst thing about working for yourself is having to buy your own pens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Having read it it seems like it's quite a small company and the MD is clearly the "extremity of a bell". Can't see too much positive there unfortunately, the only thing is an offer to share any personal problems that may mitigate the results last month. Without knowing your circumstances I'd probably take humble pie but as already mentioned it might also be time to start making plans. The last line would seriously get my back up mind. On the issue of your signing the letter potentialy constituting acceptance of any terms of contract change / outcome; I would not think you would be doing that by signing but would advise you get advice from someone that knows what they are talking about in this regard. Hope it works out. BR Raja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 And remember to steal everything that isn't bolted down. Raid the stationary cupboard on a regular basis, the worst thing about working for yourself is having to buy your own pens MC - I wish you had said today, I have got loads of pens and post it notes with our old phone numbers on. WMJ - Dont forget to wee in the milk to make it go further too (and buy your tea / coffee from Costas or Maccas obviously ! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I wish you had said today, I have got loads of pens and post it notes with our old phone numbers on. Dont forget to wee in the milk to make it go further too (and buy yours from Costas or Maccas obviously ! ) Did you not see how quick that pen went in Mizu today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC45 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) These days they cannot just sack anyone UTTER TOSH! Anyone can be sacked, especially in todays climate. The boss comes in and says, anyone not made their targets gets a written. Three writtens and your out! EASY! Edited February 4, 2010 by RC45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT1 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I spent a lot of time in sales, commission only. There is not a true salesperson in the world that would work any other way. You are probably an order taker, however if you ask for the order over and over you will do better. Any way a salesman should be able to sell the idea that it's not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushkin Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 During the earlier meeting were all the points raised in the letter discussed? If they were - did you give a verbal agreement to the possible outcomes at that time? The letter appears to be a standard one covering their own butts: one that says I have told you what is expected of you in fair terms in agreement with your current contract and as stated within the works handbook - by the way have you been issued witha copy of that and signed to say you have read and understood it? My understanding is that in order for it to be used against you (as well as to support you) you have to have been issued with a copy of that to at least read, been given time to do so and also time to digest and understand the contents of it. Normally given out as pasrt of the welcome to work package. If you did, and you read and then signed it - then it is a clear case that they are in the right to use this as part of their drive to achieve targets - you have already agreed to it. Is this perhaps a case whereby the group knew they hadn't met targets but had not bothered to do anything abouit it and management are now saying "sod them" time to bring out the heavy guns? Buy your own milk - don't rely on them to supply it. All the best mate Pushkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 (edited) MC - I wish you had said today, I have got loads of pens and post it notes with our old phone numbers on. WMJ - Dont forget to wee in the milk to make it go further too (and buy your tea / coffee from Costas or Maccas obviously ! ) Milk weeing is no good, same as laxative poisoning. You can unfortunately conflict with non target quarry. I had a bad boss once for six months when I was an apprentice. As bad as the MD you have spoken about. Every day me and a fellow apprentice had to fetch his Tea and sausage sarnies from the site canteen (And pay for them too, yere on 70 quid a week too!) I have to say for at least three months there was not a day that went by where I did'nt rim his tea cup and my mate plant the sausages down the crack of his backside for of the 5 of the 10 minute it took to walk back to the mess cabin. We even use to add the tomato sauce afterwards to ensure it was masked. To this day I remember him saying on regular occasion; 'This tea is ***p and sandwiches are'nt much better either, you can't even get that right' *Please note* Can I assure you all I only took part in the rimming side of the deal and no bum sausage stuffing. Just wanted to clear that one up, especially with all the abiquity on PW with me being from Suffolk an all.................. I would also like to say that some ten years later that very lad came out as gay, and thats straight up too. We laughed about it then on, and he said that at the time there was no connection to his infidelity whatsoever- just the experience............. Edited February 5, 2010 by starlight32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Milk weeing is no good, same as laxative poisoning. You can unfortunately conflict with non target quarry. I had a bad boss once for six months when I was an apprentice. As bad as the MD you have spoken about. Every day me and a fellow apprentice had to fetch his Tea and sausage sarnies from the site canteen (And pay for them too, yere on 70 quid a week too!) I have to say for at least three months there was not a day that went by where I did'nt rim his tea cup and my mate plant the sausages down the crack of his backside for of the 5 of the 10 minute it took to walk back to the mess cabin. We even use to add the tomato sauce afterwards to ensure it was masked. To this day I remember him saying on regular occasion; 'This tea is ***p and sandwiches are'nt much better either, you can't even get that right' *Please note* Can I assure you all I only took part in the rimming side of the deal and no bum sausage stuffing. Just wanted to clear that one up, especially with all the abiquity on PW with me being from Suffolk an all.................. I would also like to say that some ten years later that very lad came out as gay, and thats straight up too. We laughed about it then on, and he said that at the time there was no connection to his infidelity whatsoever- just the experience............. LMCO! Rob, remind me not to let you get the teas in in the future. Back on topic - Billy, it doesn't take a genius to work out that your boss is trying to create a paper trail and there will be a reduction in head count coming. Simples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Milk weeing is no good, same as laxative poisoning. You can unfortunately conflict with non target quarry. I had a bad boss once for six months when I was an apprentice. As bad as the MD you have spoken about. Every day me and a fellow apprentice had to fetch his Tea and sausage sarnies from the site canteen (And pay for them too, yere on 70 quid a week too!) I have to say for at least three months there was not a day that went by where I did'nt rim his tea cup and my mate plant the sausages down the crack of his backside for of the 5 of the 10 minute it took to walk back to the mess cabin. We even use to add the tomato sauce afterwards to ensure it was masked. To this day I remember him saying on regular occasion; 'This tea is ***p and sandwiches are'nt much better either, you can't even get that right' *Please note* Can I assure you all I only took part in the rimming side of the deal and no bum sausage stuffing. Just wanted to clear that one up, especially with all the abiquity on PW with me being from Suffolk an all.................. I would also like to say that some ten years later that very lad came out as gay, and thats straight up too. We laughed about it then on, and he said that at the time there was no connection to his infidelity whatsoever- just the experience............. Thanks Rob, You have just given Markio an idea for when he gets the teas in, but then again he neve does so we will be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Milk weeing is no good, same as laxative poisoning. You can unfortunately conflict with non target quarry. I had a bad boss once for six months when I was an apprentice. As bad as the MD you have spoken about. Every day me and a fellow apprentice had to fetch his Tea and sausage sarnies from the site canteen (And pay for them too, yere on 70 quid a week too!) I have to say for at least three months there was not a day that went by where I did'nt rim his tea cup and my mate plant the sausages down the crack of his backside for of the 5 of the 10 minute it took to walk back to the mess cabin. We even use to add the tomato sauce afterwards to ensure it was masked. To this day I remember him saying on regular occasion; 'This tea is ***p and sandwiches are'nt much better either, you can't even get that right' *Please note* Can I assure you all I only took part in the rimming side of the deal and no bum sausage stuffing. Just wanted to clear that one up, especially with all the abiquity on PW with me being from Suffolk an all.................. I would also like to say that some ten years later that very lad came out as gay, and thats straight up too. We laughed about it then on, and he said that at the time there was no connection to his infidelity whatsoever- just the experience............. And to clear this one up once and for all....... John C if you are looking down from up above as I know you have passed this world- Please have mercy on my soul...... While you are there also give David P your sidekick and my journeyman a nudge as he wont be far away as he never normally was. Tell him that bout of incontinence he suffered in that hot August of 1989 had nothing to do with the bad beer in the local. I wee'ed in the toby jug on the stair landing and tipped it over the bed and told the landlady his 'room stank for some reason' I know it cost him 80 quid for a new mattress, and he thought he had damped down, but no hard feelings eh? It was payback for the 'left handed welding rods' and the 'Long weight' at the stores........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Munglers hit the nail on the head, from an employers point of view its a kick up the backside to the sales team. January has been hard for us and lots of companies are just hanging on in there but know if things don't improve then cost cutting of people not achieving has to be done. he is basically trying to go by the letter of the law and cover his backside and to me the letter wasn't bad. It gave you the option of meeting your targets in February or undergoing training to help you meet targets. Then it laid the fundamentals for getting rid of you if it doesn't work, of course I don't know how fair the targets are or how achievable they are. Assuming they are fair then you need to meet them, hard in this climate and especially hard this month with it being a short one but it sounds like the time to hit the phone hard. I know a few sales people being pushed very hard by emloyers at the moment but then the fundamental is if your sales team isn't achieving enough to keep the company afloat then everyone is out of a job. as for signing it well it was a pretty straightforward letter which I don't think you're signing your life away on its just a kick to either get out or try and meet targets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 I would actually call their bluff and put in an official request for training. Then the ball is firmly back in their court to do something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr W Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 The part about offering training is to cover their backsides from an HR point of view before dismissing people. They legally have to have made an effort to give you the right training befoe they can dimiss you for poor performance. They're obviously getting set up with warning letters, offers of training etc to get rid of people. I'd make sure that you're not at the bottom of the sales list next month if you're trying to hang in there till Plan B kicks off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Might the shock of having to sign this letter under duress not cause you to take time off with stress? Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrowboy Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 UTTER TOSH! Anyone can be sacked, especially in todays climate. The boss comes in and says, anyone not made their targets gets a written. Three writtens and your out! EASY! If you read my post mate ,thats what I.ve said or implied . They have to give written warnings first , find someone else to pick on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Harford, I have been away for a few days and I see from another post that you not in the job anymore. What happened geezer ? ME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted February 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) Harford, I have been away for a few days and I see from another post that you not in the job anymore. What happened geezer ? ME Am I not? First I've heard about it...! I don't think I'll be in the job too long now though. I got taken on into a department that was fighting over companies to recruit for and I just got stuck in there a made a bit of money, but nothing in comparison to those who had the majority of the companies under their belt. I got asked to get the IT desk running again and I took it on with great enthusiasm. However, I've got a great market, I know all the people I deal with, but I am just on a massive losing streak in regards to companies letting me down... It's all false promises. "Yeah, we're recruiting, send some CVs over" a week later I chase them up and they say "Oh, no, we were just seeing who's out there as we may be looking soon..." The big problem is that all the departments are the same. Overstaffed and not enough work to go around. So when they pull the plug on my stuff, what are they going to get me to do?! I would say I'd get made redundant, but the company are so tight, they'd just sack me for gross misconduct for sending an email to my girlfriend or something... You know, just something tiny that they can do you for to get them out of paying out... I've got a plan B in place and as soon as it all goes tits up, I'll just move onto that. My huge catch 22 at the moment, is that I'm trying to save to buy a house, which means I have to stay in my job, as my plan B is to go self employed and NO mortgage lender will give me a penny of their money if I apply with less than two years of self employed financial records. (I've never really earned that much money, so they'll be quite careful about lending to me, even though I have a perfect credit history...) Send me the link to my apparent job loss, I'm intrigued! Thanks for thinking of me though :good: Edited February 25, 2010 by harfordwmj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveT Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 By Law, you are legally entitled to read through the document/agreement thoroughly before signing. Also if it is a Document/Agreement that you are signing to agree to or accept the plan of action detailed within the document then you are also within your rights to disagree and query the document.agreement in question. This is Law. Nobody can be made to sign anything against their will. And remember, a legal employment tribuneral would be on your side with this one....... And i'm sure your MD wouldn't be shouting at the judge in the dock.... Basically, it seems to me that they are trying to force a document upon you guys to meet unrealistic targets and are signing that if you don't meet the targets set out that you are agreeing to be disciplined and potentially dismissed for it. Once signed, you would not be able to go against any crazy course of action by the company and nothing would stand up in court as you would be agreeing to it in a legal document. Be careful chap. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Just made an assumption mate. Saw this and thought that you had time on your hands. Apologies. YouTube is a daily part of my life. I try to save the best for the forum, otherwise people get bored of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted February 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Just made an assumption mate. Saw this and thought that you had time on your hands. Apologies. Haha, no need to apologise. I can see how that can be percieved as that. ...anyway, literally just sat at my desk, so time to start pretending to work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted March 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 (edited) Well just to let you all know, we had a power cut on Friday and my boos took the opportunity to have a meeting with me and told me that the company was making me redundant as there were no other roles for me to go in to. Told to clear my desk and I was out of the office by 2pm. I've been there for just under a year, so I really should have seen it coming, as the law isn't too favourable for those with less than 1 year's service... Oh well... Plan B is now in full swing and my website is up and running: iPhone Apps Thanks for all your advice and fingers crossed that my venture works out a bit better :s Edited March 1, 2010 by harfordwmj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 (edited) Well just to let you all know, we had a power cut on Friday and my boos took the opportunity to have a meeting with me and told me that the company was making me redundant as there were no other roles for me to go in to. Told to clear my desk and I was out of the office by 2pm. I've been there for just under a year, so I really should have seen it coming, as the law isn't too favourable for those with less than 1 year's service... Oh well... Plan B is now in full swing and my website is up and running: iPhone Apps Thanks for all your advice and fingers crossed that my venture works out a bit better :s Will, Sorry to hear about your redundancy, I too was made redundant at just under a years service last April. I started my own company and with a bit of help from some very good friends I have not looked back. In particular Billericay (BIG COCK) web design I found that the law is a bit more favourable than you think and I used Moneysavingexpert.com and the advice on there to screw the company I worked for. I may have been in a different siuation to you as I was right in the middle of a million pound contract when they got rid of me but they claimed they hadn't got any work. All the very best for your new venture. Edited March 1, 2010 by MC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 Very sorry to hear the bad news and I wish you the very best of luck with your new venture. Usually as one door closes another opens just keep looking forward with enthusiasm and don't look back to the past and what might have been Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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