Is anybody bothered

[dazza]

That would please the anti's eh? If the shooting and hunting of wild things was banned

[MC]

Backdoor legislation to ban shooting that is what I say. Since they can't get enough support to ban guns or shooting they are going for an environmental perspective of: let's protect the environment and ban lead. Effectively putting an end to most shooting.

 

 

And why would that be exactly?

 

Did a ban on using lead shot end wildfowling? No it did not. Why was that? Because wildfowlers moved with the times and got up to speed with the alternatives.

 

It is the short sighted views that you have that will put an end to shooting, not a ban on lead shot.

[Dunkield]

That is also my opinion too.

That doesn't make it so though does it?

Lead was banned from coarse fishing weights years ago, was that to stop people from fishing?

[BlaserF3]

Let's wait and see what the outcome will be, but it will definitely change clay shooting as we know it though, but never mind.

[MC]

Let's wait and see what the outcome will be, but it will definitely change clay shooting as we know it though, but never mind.

 

 

Like it or not the outcome is inevitable, if major industries have to clean up their act by not spueing toxins into the enviroment then shooters are going to have to follow suit.

 

It will change clay shooting? how is that exactly? You mean that course setters will have to think about what birds they are throwing rather than putting a midi at 60 yards to make a stand hard? They will have to get a bit creative, BIG DEAL

 

A 7.5 in steel WILL easily break a clay out to 40 - 45 yards without any bother IF you do your bit.

[al4x]

I'll get flack for this but i think its hard to defend for clay shooting after all you are very heavily contaminating small areas and you don't need the killing advantage of lead to ensure a kill is humane

[BlaserF3]

Why should you expect flak for saying what you think?

 

There are tons and tons of lead shot at clay grounds and it's not causing a problem.

[dazza]

Why should you expect flak for saying what you think?

 

There are tons and tons of lead shot at clay grounds and it's not causing a problem.

 

How do you know?

[BlaserF3]

How do you know?

 

Can you tell me otherwise?

[dazza]

No I can't. You made the statement that lead doesn't do any harm I just wanted to know how you knew. I was interested as it's subject I know nothing about.

[JRDS]

See a BASC advisor has published yet another article in ST today extolling the virtues of Steel. It is blatantly obvious where we are being taken even before it has really started and the consequences for shooting as a sport will be immense. Fishing weights don't have to do the same job as shot in a cartridge do they? I shoot at Kelbrook ground occasionally and there must be tons and tons of Lead on there. Mike Megisson lives there but doesn't have two heads and the flora and fauna are everywhere. Lead is on every roof top in the country for gods sake and drinking water is in contact with it, are they going to ban that. Wildfowlers as a rule fire a small number of shots so are better placed to absorb the massive price differential between Lead and the likes of Heavy Shot. Pest, Game and Clay shooters are not placed to. I am in total agreement with previous comments and have said so myself in the past, this is simply a back door attack on shooting by the RSPB and DEFRA supported by no evidence.

Edited April 28, 2010 by JRDS

[BlaserF3]

No I can't. You made the statement that lead doesn't do any harm I just wanted to know how you knew. I was interested as it's subject I know nothing about.

 

Why don't you look for any scientific evidence in the UK where lead shot causes problems?

 

JRDS makes a good point about Kelbrook, all their filtered water for their house comes out of the lake which must have an awful lot of lead shot in it.

 

If you want to find out more I suggest you start looking yourself, you never know you might learn something.

[Christopher Graffius]

Shooting really doesn't need any enemies given the number of people prepared to talk it down on this site.

 

I've don't think I've ever come across such a readiness to take a blinkered attitude and put a pessimistic interpretation - in the face of the facts - on what's happening.

 

Read John Harradine's piece, it's not extolling the virtues of steel against lead. It's pointing out that a previous article rubbishing steel was scientific nonsense. Anyone who fowls knows that steel can kill efficiently, that's fact and not an argument against lead.

 

Then - if you've been taken in by all the anti-BASC propaganda - read Steve Tapper of the Game Conservancy's letter in this week's ST. He's on the Committee - unless you want to damn a man who's contributed so much to the defence of shooting as a closet anti.

 

It baffles me how people who claim to support the sport are so keen to run down those who fight their corner.

 

I'm beginning to think all you critics must be antis posing as shooters.

 

Christopher

[JRDS]

Shooting really doesn't need any enemies given the number of people prepared to talk it down on this site.

 

I've don't think I've ever come across such a readiness to take a blinkered attitude and put a pessimistic interpretation - in the face of the facts - on what's happening.

 

Read John Harradine's piece, it's not extolling the virtues of steel against lead. It's pointing out that a previous article rubbishing steel was scientific nonsense. Anyone who fowls knows that steel can kill efficiently, that's fact and not an argument against lead.

 

Then - if you've been taken in by all the anti-BASC propaganda - read Steve Tapper of the Game Conservancy's letter in this week's ST. He's on the Committee - unless you want to damn a man who's contributed so much to the defence of shooting as a closet anti.

 

It baffles me how people who claim to support the sport are so keen to run down those who fight their corner.

 

I'm beginning to think all you critics must be antis posing as shooters.

 

Christopher

 

Typical BASC arrogance, tell it to someone else.

[mudpatten]

Christopher,

 

You probably don`t need me to tell you that there are ten times as many people, who live in the real world, who understand the stance BASC has taken over this issue and applaud the stirling work you are doing on all our behalf, against an ignorant minority, not one of whom has come forward with a workable alternative strategy.

 

Sadly, your comments about their blinkered attitude and pessimistic interpretation, far from being arrogant, are all too true.

[MC]

Typical BASC arrogance, tell it to someone else.

 

 

Which wonderful shooting organisation are you a member of that is looking after your interests?

[JRDS]

Which wonderful shooting organisation are you a member of that is looking after your interests?

 

Read the whole thread

 

Some people really cannot see past the end of their noses, well all you who can see no wrong in BASC's approach and real agenda deserve all you will undoubtebly get.

Edited April 28, 2010 by JRDS

[al4x]

funny that all this started from BASC minutes stating they needed to start educating people about alternatives and leads days were numbered, then backed up with the widely "misquoted" statement on how toxic lead was. Did the ST over react, did it just publish things that needed to be in the open who knows. But one thing is for sure the tone of response from the BASC is far better now than when they realised there was a serious PR disaster going on and that was what was really irritating a lot of members me included the idea that they had made their mind up and were going through the motions.

[Dekers]

Is anybody bothered, Lead shot ban

 

 

Perhaps a few...

 

......but dare I say...WHAT THE **** IS ANYONE DOING ABOUT IT??? Me included???

[Salopian]

Christopher Graffius wrote:-

'I've don't think I've ever come across such a readiness to take a blinkered attitude and put a pessimistic interpretation - in the face of the facts - on what's happening.'

Christopher in the face of what facts? Could you please explain yourself ?

What proposals would you suggest that I do with my valuable classic English side x sides with deliberately filed up thin barrel walls, short chambers and in some cases very heavily choked. Consign them to the viewing cabinet or sell them at a very poor price.

All this when at this moment in time there is no hard scientific facts to back a ban on the use of lead shot in the British Isles. To say that Wildfowlers have adapted to change is actually not telling the whole story. Factually there are less people wildfowling than there were before the shot restrictions were foisted upon them. I actually wildfowl and I can assure you that the majority of serious wildfowlers using steel shot are probably using higher velocities and pressures than those recommended by the CIP.

If we are going to have the debate please let us be honest and factual.

We are not in the corridors of Westminster, we are out in the country enjoying our sport that is in jeopardy from people who have never experienced goose fever.

[starlight32]

Shooting really doesn't need any enemies given the number of people prepared to talk it down on this site.

 

I've don't think I've ever come across such a readiness to take a blinkered attitude and put a pessimistic interpretation - in the face of the facts - on what's happening.

 

Read John Harradine's piece, it's not extolling the virtues of steel against lead. It's pointing out that a previous article rubbishing steel was scientific nonsense. Anyone who fowls knows that steel can kill efficiently, that's fact and not an argument against lead.

 

Then - if you've been taken in by all the anti-BASC propaganda - read Steve Tapper of the Game Conservancy's letter in this week's ST. He's on the Committee - unless you want to damn a man who's contributed so much to the defence of shooting as a closet anti.

 

It baffles me how people who claim to support the sport are so keen to run down those who fight their corner.

 

I'm beginning to think all you critics must be antis posing as shooters.

 

Christopher

 

Could I ask what your postion is in all this? Excuse me If I have missed it if it is stated earlier on in this thread but are you;

 

A) BASC employee?

 

From a goverment think tank trying to sway opinion towards non-toxic

 

C) RSPB

 

 

No-ones blinkered about anything when it comes to shooting on this forum no matter than what you might think, only that in a nutshell

 

 

 

WE WANT LEAD for EVERYTHING BAR WILDFOWLING

 

 

 

And thats that..................Nothing blinkered about that is there?

[Christopher Graffius]

I work for BASC and have done for nine years, part of my responsibility is public affairs. I'm a fowler and a game shot. You'll find allusions to this elsewhere in the thread.

 

There's nothing blinkered about your ammunition preferences. I prefer to shoot lead for game and would do so for wildfowl if it wasn't for the law.

 

My complaint is that the actual position and the facts have been explained to death on this thread and yet continue to be misinterpreted by a small minority who persist in talking of a ban - when no such move is on the cards - and continue to misrepresent BASC's position as anti-lead. This is part of a of an anti BASC victim-culture that damages shooting. See the thread "Are we victims".

 

No one can predict the future, but I don't belive that lead is dead and in my opinion the chances are that we will continue to be using it in game shooting for the future. The reason for that is that organisations such as BASC will, through their constructive enagement with those who don't shoot, ensure that ignorance and prejudice against shooting will not be allowed to damage the sport.

 

Christopher

[activeviii]

If i remember rightly, lead shot was band in fishing because water birds were swallowing stones to grind their food, lead was being taken in at the same time and "so said" causing bird deaths. is was the swan lovers who started it and the snowball grew until it was band.

 

lead over water, ok its the same thing but lead over land. worse things in the environment then lead shot. once the lead is band you can bet your bottom dollar that they, the anti's, will find a reason for baning steal, then the next heavy metal until we have a full blanked ban on shooting. nibbling away in little corners it all it take to get a ban.

 

Phil.

[Bazooka Joe]

but lead over land. worse things in the environment then lead shot. once the lead is band you can bet your bottom dollar that they, the anti's, will find a reason for baning steal, then the next heavy metal until we have a full blanked ban on shooting. nibbling away in little corners it all it take to get a ban.

 

Said that from the start....these anti's have got there heads together & know fine well that to ban shooting would be a monumental task for them. They know if they get a ban on lead, that a massive percentage of the guns owned by sportsman through out the country will be obsolete, & incur a cost to the shooter to continue to carry with his/her sport.

 

All this talk of using steel, by them who have, banging the drum that it's just a good,

 

Just fuels the anti's argument, cause..... heading that way wins there case for them.

 

BJ.

[anser2]

Blazer and JRds how do you their is not a problem for wildlife on your clay grounds ? Have you had any of the animals tested in a lab ?

 

For years 100s of clay shoots ( including national and international shoots ) were held on Somerlayton Clay grounds on the Norfolk\ Suffolk boarder. When the ground was closed it was tested for lead contamation ( with a view of returning it to farmland. It was found that the grass had taken in lead into its leaves and then rabbits were eating the grass. The lead toxin levels in the ground were so high that the MAFF had to bring in a ban of shooting rabbits and hares off the site as the lead levels in their bodies were way above the safety levels for human consumption.

 

So the realy can be no excuse using lead on clays , switch to steel and bring the traps a bit closer.

 

 

 

 

Activevii when lead was banned in fishing the swan numbers quickly rose and incedences of lead posioning in swans ( of which there were 100s ) droped to a very low level.

 

 

 

 

Deckers quote "......but dare I say...WHAT THE **** IS ANYONE DOING ABOUT IT??? Me included??? "

 

BASC is doing something about it by being on the pannel that is looking into the potential problems lead might cause and having influence from a shooters point of view on the pannels future recomendations to the then govenment. These recomendation from the pannel will still go into govenment if BASC was not on it so it must be better to have a serious shooting organisation there to put a reasoned point of view across.

 

Before anyone bites my head off , I shoot both lead and steel at game and will do so until any possible ban comes in , but having experiance both , I know the limits and benifits of each pellet type and will not be that bothered if I have to give up lead. My only real problem is price , but in the present situation of supply and demand I would expect that to change if lead was banned. I would say this to anyone who has a 2 3\4 inch chambered gun , with an open mind just try a few boxes of a good quality steel shell such as Gamebore or RC and I think you will find up to 40 yards steel will the job asked of it.

Edited April 29, 2010 by anser2