Minister For Shooting

[PhilR]

Jim Paice Minister for Agriculture has been made responsible for hunting and shooting, is he one of us? Report in Daily Mail here.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...l#ixzz0oTew4sJO

Edited May 20, 2010 by philr

[Cranfield]

It does look as though the free vote to bring back fox hunting will not be until next year.

[Vince Green]

The hunting with dogs act covered more than just fox hunting. It also banned hunting mammals with dogs underground unless it is to protect game birds which you own on land that you own. So not the tenant, permission or gamekeeper or other employee. They are not included in the exemption so in reality this means no dogs underground. Its very unlikely that the owner of an estate is going to want to go out foxing with terriers.

If they do repeal the act will they just do it for fox hunting or will it put the terrier boys back in business as well?

Edited May 20, 2010 by Vince Green

[groach1234]

At least field sports now have a designated minister so to speak

 

George

[CharlieT]

The hunting with dogs act covered more than just fox hunting. It also banned hunting mammals with dogs underground unless it is to protect game birds which you own on land that you own. So not the tenant, permission or gamekeeper or other employee. They are not included in the exemption so in reality this means no dogs underground. Its very unlikely that the owner of an estate is going to want to go out foxing with terriers.

If they do repeal the act will they just do it for fox hunting or will it put the terrier boys back in business as well?

 

 

I quote from the DEFRA web site the correct wording of the exemption you refer to which permits the use of terriers below ground.

 

 

Summary of the Hunting Act 2004

 

 

A single dog may be used below ground to stalk or flush out a wild mammal if:

 

* the stalking or flushing out is undertaken for the purpose of preventing or reducing serious damage to game birds or wild birds which are being kept or preserved for shooting;

* the person doing the stalking or flushing out carries written evidence of land ownership or the permission of the owner or occupier. This evidence must be shown to a police constable immediately on request.

[Vince Green]

This has been aired several times. I believe if you google up the actual act it says something slightly different. However, its a small point because its all going to be repealed next year hopefully.

[Mr_Logic]

Either way, if the act is repealed, then it s removed from statute so the law is where it was before the act.

[the running man]

Camerons a deer stalker so we've got someone at the top that shoots,(not like the last pm old jockanory!) Hopefully they will repeal the pistol ban.

[Richie10]

Hopefully bring back coursing as well.

 

With all the gun crime, pistols seem very unlikely, as does coursing thinking about it.

[CharlieT]

I'm afraid to say that there is about as much chance of the hunting act being repealed as me being granted a pistol for self defense.

[al4x]

If it was repealed I assume it would be the entire thing so coursing would be allowed, however it is only a free vote and with a narrow majority it stands a good chance of being lost permanently. Even the CA aren't too sure by the sounds of it with the current parliment as its the sort of thing you only get one go at. As for pistols no chance same with automatic centerfires its not going to happen

[Christopher Graffius]

Jim Paice is a keen shooter, a long term member of BASC and a board member of the GCWT. During the last parliament he was Chairman of the All-Party Group on Shooting and Conservation, for which BASC provided the secretariat, and a regular speaker at the Game Fair and at BASC receptions at the Conservative party conference. He will take responsibility for rural affairs and animal welfare. His colleagues at DEFRA are Richard Benyon - who shoots and is Vice Chairman of the Standing Conference on Country Sports - and Lord Henley, another shooter who's been a BASC member for more than two decades. In other words three out of four DEFRA Ministers (the sponsoring department for shooting) are shooters. The Secretary of State, Caroline Spelman has a background in farming.

 

I negotiated the exemption for using a terrier underground to protect game birds at the time of the Hunting Act. It allows anyone to use the terrier as long as it is for the stated purpose and written permission is possessed from the landowner. There is a DEFRA approved code of practice which must be observed and you can find it on the BASC website. This was a notable amendment to the Hunting Act at the time because securing it meant persuading a group of Labour MPs to vote for terrierwork even though they opposed it in principle and were advised against it by the RSPCA and LACS. It was to Alun Michael's credit - he was the Labour Minister for the Hunting Bill - that he went out of his way to keep his promise that shooting would not be damaged by the Hunting Act.

 

The new coalition agreement carries within it a pledge not to "repeal" the Hunting Act but to hold a free vote on a motion "enabling the House of Commons to express its view on the repeal of the Hunting Act." This is a retreat from the previous formula of a vote on repeal within a government Bill. There must be some doubt that there exists a majority in the Commons for repeal at present. The LIb Dems tend to split 50/50 on the issue.

 

Christopher

[the running man]

My thoughts are that anyone of use can cut up our 10/22 rugers and have a semi auto pistol,nobody has,same with a shotgun,in essence the pistols are still with us in effect.I think with current legislation ryan/hamilton wouldent have fac's with todays controls.

[wymberley]

My thoughts are that anyone of use can cut up our 10/22 rugers and have a semi auto pistol,nobody has,same with a shotgun,in essence the pistols are still with us in effect.I think with current legislation ryan/hamilton wouldent have fac's with todays controls.

The question you have to ask is how come they had them under the old legislation.

[Breastman]

The question you have to ask is how come they had them under the old legislation.

 

Sloppy Police work, and possible 'friends in high places' in hamiltons case. As the running man says, you would HOPE the tighter controls (procedural controls that is, restriction of certain types of firearms is a nonsense), would go some way to prevent obvious loons like those two from getting certificates nowadays

 

Mark

Edited May 21, 2010 by Breastman

[wymberley]

Sloppy Police work, and possible 'friends in high places' in hamiltons case. As the running man says, you would HOPE the tighter controls (procedural controls that is, restriction of certain types of firearms is a nonsense), would go some way to prevent obvious loons like those two from getting certificates nowadays

 

Mark

Like making sure any potential applicant completed their club probationary period perhaps!

[the running man]

With ryan I think (don't quote me) it was the local copper who issued him with his fac,now there were several complaints about him theatning people with an ak-47 but amounted to nothing....hamilton was (alledgedly) running a pedofile ring,and camps for boys, I can only imagine who and wat went on there,weather he knew too much threatened to talk, who knows,I've herd it wasent even him doing the shooting,and that he was alive under police guard at hospital after! All rumours? or based? on fact we will never know.there's a book on it called dunblane unburried and it does overanyalise every fact,but there are some shocking revalations and conclusions.decide for youreself.

[Kent Militia]

The only lines I can find in the new Coalition manifesto that deals with a self defence issue are these:

 

"We will give people greater legal protection to prevent crime and apprehend criminals."

 

"We will ensure that people have the protection that they need when they defend themselves against intruders."

 

Whatever protection means. Condoms, Vaseline, harsh language?

[Vince Green]

There is much about Thomas Hamilton that never came out in the subsequent enquiry and is still the subject of a press ban. I may well be actually breaking the law by even posting this. Can you believe that? well its true.

 

However, I am not so stupid as to post what I believe to be the truth. Even by mentioning his name this post will be flagged up by GCHQ and read. Well don't worry I am not going into any more detail so as far as I am concerned its a taboo subject and thats it.

[the running man]

There is much about Thomas Hamilton that never came out in the subsequent enquiry and is still the subject of a press ban. I may well be actually breaking the law by even posting this. Can you believe that? well its true.

 

However, I am not so stupid as to post what I believe to be the truth. Even by mentioning his name this post will be flagged up by GCHQ and read. Well don't worry I am not going into any more detail so as far as I am concerned its a taboo subject and thats it.

Yes in the book it tells you how there was (get this) a media ban on telling anyone there was a 100 year file seal thing slapped on it! I think that was it,itk tell u in the book.

[Kent Militia]

It's called a DA-NOTICE. Also you're also not allowed to know about this either. It's like an executive order that stops you from knowing something, the only problem is that you're not suppsoed to even know about the existance of this type of executive order.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DA-Notice

Edited May 21, 2010 by Kent Militia

[vulpicide]

Chris de Graph says he negotiated for the use of a single terrier I think Barry Wade had something to do with it as the NWTF had been fighting this corner from the start On both sides of the border :o

[Christopher Graffius]

Well I'm sure Barry did some useful work - 'though I never saw him in parliament, in meetings with the Bill team to draft the amendment or ministerial offices. Perhaps he'd tell us what he did?

 

It's useful to know that there's someone else to share all the flak I took (and still take) for not ensuring the exemption covered farmers protecting lambs. The reason it didn't was it would have been even more a "coach and horses" amendment then the one we agreed and the government had given a pledge to shooting but not to farming. They wouldn't draw it wider.

 

Christopher

[JackReady]

I'm afraid to say that there is about as much chance of the hunting act being repealed as me being granted a pistol for self defense.

 

I agree.

 

If it does come back it will be under license, and coursing will never get made legal.