A big thanks to Steve B

[Alpha Mule]

Well I had it in my head that the HMR was the way forward for me.

The flat trajectory and range said it all.

However, when Steve turned up at my gaff and after we had walked around to see absolutely nothing moving, we decided that some stones in an embankment would have to do.

I put about 15 rounds of .22 into the bank then swapped for the HMR.

I think it only took about 5 rounds for me to do a complete U turn on my opinion. I continued to push rocks around for half an hour and ensured I know what riccochets sound like at about 50 and about 75 yards.

The HMR's kick isn't too terrible and the crack isn't so loud, but the .22 wet all over it. I was hitting what I pointed at every time (well after the 3rd round to get my eye in) with the .22. I suppose that after a time with the HMR I'd get better (it wasn't so bad, I was hitting what I was aiming at 8/10), but the .22 just hit the spot (pun intended) from the word go.

 

One more thing that really sold me was how quiet it was! Those Winchester 40grs were quieter than my CO2 powered pellets. Even with the mod off, they were completely unobtrusive.

 

So thanks Steve, my mind is now made up - .22 all the way!

[colin lad]

Well I had it in my head that the HMR was the way forward for me.

The flat trajectory and range said it all.

However, when Steve turned up at my gaff and after we had walked around to see absolutely nothing moving, we decided that some stones in an embankment would have to do.

I put about 15 rounds of .22 into the bank then swapped for the HMR.

I think it only took about 5 rounds for me to do a complete U turn on my opinion. I continued to push rocks around for half an hour and ensured I know what riccochets sound like at about 50 and about 75 yards.

The HMR's kick isn't too terrible and the crack isn't so loud, but the .22 wet all over it. I was hitting what I pointed at every time (well after the 3rd round to get my eye in) with the .22. I suppose that after a time with the HMR I'd get better (it wasn't so bad, I was hitting what I was aiming at 8/10), but the .22 just hit the spot (pun intended) from the word go.

 

One more thing that really sold me was how quiet it was! Those Winchester 40grs were quieter than my CO2 powered pellets. Even with the mod off, they were completely unobtrusive.

 

So thanks Steve, my mind is now made up - .22 all the way!

 

 

have just put a thread on what gun to get 17hmr or 22lr sounds like you have done some homework did want a 22 at 1st then was talked into a 17 but after reading your report am leaning back towards the 22

 

colin

[eddoakley]

get both!!

I got 2 .22s and just put variation in for a 17hmr

Edd

[magman]

Got both and each has there place in my book but for different reasons

[Evil Elvis]

If your hmr was set up properly it will out shoot a .22lr at 100 yards all day long, at 50 and 70 yards, there wouldnt be a lot of difference.......if you were mssing at that range with the hmr....a, its not set up properly or b, its was down to user error................

[Alpha Mule]

Ah, ah, ah! No soap box posturing! I'm just saying a big thanks to Steve. It has taken me until yesterday to figure once and for all what works for me, in my situation, at the ranges that I want to shoot at, on the ground available to me.

 

Evil: I have no doubt that the poorer quality target aquisition was down to me, I said so straight away. I only put about 20 rounds down the thing and have no doubts whatsoever that the rifle's capabilities far exceede mine. To be fair it was also quite blustery and from what I've heard of how much the HMR is affected by even light winds, it performed well enough to impress the pants off me.

 

Horses for courses and all that

 

Colin: Have a good look at some ballistics charts to compare trajectories etc. I thought the .22LR was very 'loopy' compaired to the .17HMR, but it's nothing compaired with a <12ftLBS .22 air rifle. If you are concerned about the noise (one of my permissions is bounded on 2 sides by a village incl. a primary school) as I am, then the sub-sonic route is defo the route to go - I can bottom-fluff louder than that .22 did.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Alpha Mule

[kyska]

Ah, ah, ah! No soap box posturing! I'm just saying a big thanks to Steve. It has taken me until yesterday to figure once and for all what works for me, in my situation, at the ranges that I want to shoot at, on the ground available to me.

 

Evil: I have no doubt that the poorer quality target aquisition was down to me, I said so straight away. I only put about 20 rounds down the thing and have no doubts whatsoever that the rifle's capabilities far exceede mine. To be fair it was also quite blustery and from what I've heard of how much the HMR is affected by even light winds, it performed well enough to impress the pants off me.

Horses for courses and all that

 

Colin: Have a good look at some ballistics charts to compare trajectories etc. I thought the .22LR was very 'loopy' compaired to the .17HMR, but it's nothing compaired with a <12ftLBS .22 air rifle. If you are concerned about the noise (one of my permissions is bounded on 2 sides by a village incl. a primary school) as I am, then the sub-sonic route is defo the route to go - I can bottom-fluff louder than that .22 did.

 

The HMR is less affected by the wind than .22lr!

 

Of course its all down to personal choice, but if I had a village pretty close I wouldn't be using the lr, bit of noise is better than a riqochet up someones *****.

 

Whatever you choose (go for both) good luck.

[bullet boy]

Put both on.

[Alpha Mule]

(Stands back, takes a deep breath, tries not to smile) Defo and I'll be putting in for a .243 or a 22-250 and a 12g and a moderated .410.

 

Now all I have to do is sort out some decent permission and some cash

 

Anyway: Thanks Steve :blink:

Blimey, I was just trying to say thanks to a bloke for helping me out

[jamie g]

The HMR is less affected by the wind than .22lr!

 

Of course its all down to personal choice, but if I had a village pretty close I wouldn't be using the lr, bit of noise is better than a riqochet up someones *****.

 

Whatever you choose (go for both) good luck.

 

i cant see how that works mate. say at 70 yards a 40 grain bullet will be less afected by wind then a 17 grain bullet surely ?

[bullet boy]

(Stands back, takes a deep breath, tries not to smile) Defo and I'll be putting in for a .243 or a 22-250 and a 12g and a moderated .410.

 

Now all I have to do is sort out some decent permission and some cash

 

Anyway: Thanks Steve :blink:

Blimey, I was just trying to say thanks to a bloke for helping me out

 

He's a great bloke and has helped me out so much.Thanks Steve.

[kyska]

i cant see how that works mate. say at 70 yards a 40 grain bullet will be less afected by wind then a 17 grain bullet surely ?

 

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread!

 

But yes, a .22 is by far less efficient in windy conditions. The table below shows by how much, as you can see, up to 4 inches less windage effect in a 10mph crosswind.

[docholiday]

Its strange how everybody thinks the HMR is affected more than the LR by wind, but it isnt as the charts show

doc

[al4x]

So Steve whats wrong with your HMR

[Alpha Mule]

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread!

 

But yes, a .22 is by far less efficient in windy conditions. The table below shows by how much, as you can see, up to 4 inches less windage effect in a 10mph crosswind.

Just to highjack my own post, a derivative of this is how I'd explain speeding on a motorbike.

Well officer, it is windy and I was being blown across the lane, so due to the principals of conservation of momentum I figured that the faster I go, the less I'll deviate off the 'safe' part of the lane. :blink:

 

If I ever have to use that, I'll let you know how it goes

[al4x]

not sure that analogy works, but fact is the HMR doesn't drift as much as the .22lr, its only known for it as people compare it to a centrefire not a .22LR which says a lot for it. With regard to ricochets its when it bounces off flat grassland you'll question things

[njc110381]

The HMR gets to the target so much faster so the wind has less time to take hold of it.

 

I hated the .22lr when I started out. The ricochets put me right off and the HMR seemed great. Now I have a .22lr but no HMR so it certainly has its place in the cabinet.

 

Why not ask for a .22lr and a HMR? Or better still a .22lr and .223?!

[Alpha Mule]

The bike analogy wasn't a dig mate, it just tickled me.

The muliple guns wasn't a dig, other than at myself. I'm having real problems finding a job and therefore the cash to splash on guns.

'Guns' - I'm going to have to sell one of the kids to pay for 1 never mind 5!

I get the differences and the justifications for each (and I have no problems with that), but in my present circumstances I'll be pushing it to get one rifle.

I went for another look round the permission I got earlier in the year and to be honest, I seriously doubt any FEO would give it a second look. It was a bit overgrown when I was last there, but now it's like a piece of Vietnamese jungle!

[njc110381]

Still apply for two or three guns if you can justify it and want them. You have five years to buy them!

[vampire]

Have to agree with you alphamule,i to have been draen to the .22lr as opposed to the .17hmr,i have had same experience as you the cz i use i am so accurate with it and it does all the range i usually shoot at where as the .17 i was looking for longer range shots,i deliberated which to put on my fac and in the end put down for .22lr,.17hmr,.223 and after speaking with feo kept the .22 and .223 and dropped the .17hmr.

The .22lr seems to do what most people want if only they could sort out the richochet element.

[Browning]

it does all the range i usually shoot at where as the .17 i was looking for longer range shots,

 

 

What a very good post

 

I shot .22LR for many many years, when .17HMR was available I bought one and used it for 2 years.

 

Over the 2 years I ended up shooting the same amount of rabbits than I did with the .22LR, and it cost me a hell of a lot more,

so I sold the HMR and went back to the .22LR.

 

I have for many years found it very strange how people use the 'no field craft' argument when talking about long range shooting with centrefire rifles,

but seem to be OK with it when using HMR's so they can shoot rabbits at longer ranges......

[wildfowler.250]

I prefer my .17 any day! You just can't beat the point and aim out to around 100 yards

 

 

Reduced ricochets, 'longer range' , less likely to wound are also plus points.

 

 

 

 

Having said that the .22 is also a great round...I'm still fiddling with the tragectory at the mommemt! Put in for as many as you like .17/.22mag/.22lr whatever-saves paying another £26 quid plus the hassle of pushing the variation through if you want another/fancy a new gun in a few years time

 

 

 

ATB

[Frenchieboy]

This debate between the .22LR and the 17HMR will rage on for ever! The fact that Steve was willing to spend the time to help you is highly commendable, well done Steve!

I will not hide the fact that I am a lover of the HMR purely because of the (Potentially) much longer range. I used to have both calibres but due to the storage space in my cabinet and the fact that I was after a larger calibre rifle one of them had to go! I opted to retain the HMR knowing that it suited me better, and that is the crux of it, the fact that it suited ME better! What suits some might well not suit others and much of it comes down to what you want a rifle for and how much you expect of it!

For longer range shots (Let's say) over 100 yards the .22LR quite simply will not touch the 17HMR, and if anyone wants to dispute that they are welcome to come up with their .22LR and try to outshoot my 17HMR at (let's say) 150 yards! However the downfall of the HMR compared to the .22LR is the noise factor. No matter what moderator you put on the end of it you will not lose that "Crack" from the HMR so if you are (for instance) out lamping rabbits then the .22LR with a reasonable moderator will have the upper hand over the HMR.

As for this "wind factor thing" I find that a little questionable - I have shot quite a few fairly rangy rabbits with my HMR in some fairly windy conditions and very rarely had to allow any compensation for the wind - You have to remember that the HMR bullet head is that much smaller than the head of the .22 so it is not going to catch the wind quite so much plus with the extra velocity the wind is going to effect it less!

There might be one last deciding factor that favours the .22LR and that is the cost of feeding it - The .22 is so much cheaper to feed (And possibly less ammo fussy) than the 17HMR, so if costs is an issue then the .22 will win every time, unless you are selling your rabbits and they are "a bit skittish" and have to be head shot at ranges constantly over 100 yards!

I will openly admit that if I was not such a tight *** I would buy a bigger cabinet and get another .22LR (Bolt Action) with a good mod and it would "have it's moments", though maybe not quite so many as my 17HMR.

If your mind is made up on the .22LR then go for it and good luck with it, it is an enjoyable little rifle to use, but why not try for a 17HMR on your ticket as well so that you are covered if you change your mind at a later date??

 

"BROWNING" has just raised a very good point to think about while we are all talking about the longer ranges of the 17HMR - He is so right when he says that there is no substitute for good fieldcraft to minimise these "long range shots" rather than taking them just because we can!!!!!!!!!

 

Footnote: I am not saying that this is the case but the 17HMR that you were trying might not have been so well set up as the .22LR, if this was the case you might well have a different opinion to the one you have at the moment!

Edited June 16, 2010 by Frenchieboy

[al4x]

Fieldcraft does slightly go out the window with us as it means when lamping from a vehicle you can reach further from the tracks which is particularly useful when its wet. Noise wise I happily shot 4 in a group last night and had I not had to reload would have been more

[wildfowler.250]

That's an interesting point with regards to noise aswell... The .22 does produce a loud thud when you hit the target. The other week I shot six out of ten rabbits in one sitting, (had to reload ) and they didn't seem to know where the 'crack' is comming from or care.

 

 

Get both