ochre Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 How do you guys/gals judge lead when it comes to our little feathered friends? For instance, at short range, how much lead do you give a bird? What about medium range, maybe 25 yds, how much extra? And finally the all important long range question, perhaps 40 yds, how much extra allowance do you give a bird? I know many people that say they don't judge lead, they just do it automatically. I have to say that whilst this may now be the case, how did you learn to adapt to range and speed? In terms of science and measurement, there must be more to it than 'practise', 'it comes with experience' or even 'it's natural talent'. I tend to estimate speed and distance and allow between a few inches and 9 yds in front for a really quick high bird. If you were being honest, what would you admit to? Many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down South Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 It does get to the stage where you just do it. I don't know if you're a novice shooter but the field is not really the place to try it out if you understand me. Go to a clay ground where you can get repetitive shots and learn, invest in some tuition maybe, its money well spent. Once you have the basics get out there and find the difference between a clay and a woody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 there is a slight problem with saying you see x number of yards lead this is that not everyone will percieve lead the same so 6yards of my lead which i would give a 35/40 yard bird just cruising along might well be percieved by you as 9 yards i used to shoot much more insinctively than i do now, this is mainly down to doing far far far too much clays, and not enough pigeon shooting, basically it comes with experiance, i found that when i first started shooting in the field (started this before clays) i could hit most things under 20 yards, but that 35/40 yard birds were a complete mystery to me, i shot at them but never came close. this i believe was due to the very short pull of the gun i was using at the time, however after going many thousands of clays over the last 2 years and practicing particually long crossers or 1/4ering birds, i have got my eye in a bit. so i suppose what im trying to say is this.....shooting instinctively comes with practice, shooting using maintained lead (im assuming you dont use any of the other methods of generating lead) you cannot really say what lead you give it, as this number unless your very familiar with a shooter (like i am with my father) means absolutely nothing to them, there are so many variables, wind, speed, choke (if the bird was centered or not) speed of shell, angle bird is flying at, and estimation of range. so i dont think i can really give you an answer. but ive rambled on the topic roughly, hope i helpled a little bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 there are so many variables, wind, speed, choke (if the bird was centered or not) speed of shell, angle bird is flying at, and estimation of range. This just about sums up the difficulty in answering your question. It is mostly a matter of instinct born from experience. If you were with me when I shot a bird and immediately asked how much lead I gave it, I doubt I would be able to tell you. One thing I do always remember, especially on the longer birds, "you rarely miss by giving too much lead". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hitman Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 i agree with cranfield on this one .i shot 21 today most over decoys so you don't think about lead but one was very high and i gave it about 8ft.I tend to mount the gun on the bird then fire as i pull through ,my dad who shot clays internationally tells me my method is wrong .so if you try to miss them in front you will soon be killing pigeons at all ranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 there is no such thing as a wrong method as long as it works personally i preffer maintained lead as i find it more repeatable, but i do use some pull through type of shots ocassionaly if the shot requires alot of lead in a short space of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochre Posted December 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 Thanks guys. i'm out tomorrow and will try to 'miss in front'. It's worked for me in the past, I've just lost my rhythm. Will let you know if I find it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 Do lots of clays Ochre LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 i dont do a lot of clay shooting but started on pigeons its hard to tell some one how much lead to give them its some thing you must do and remember how far in front you were, thats what i tell the boy and he ids doing ok at it, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 I've got to say that in my opinion, Clay Shooting and Pigeon Shooting simply don't mix well together, in that if you shoot too many Pigeons, your Clay Shooting will suffer....don't ask me why, but I've done a fair bit of both, and they simply ain't the same..!! Catamong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 (edited) to a degree this is deffinatly true, but to a degree the two are very compatable problem with clay shooting is that the clay is slowing down, where as pigeons are not slowing down, also the birds can be scared, so a rapid mount is required at the last min. however clays help develop hand eye co-ordiantion, consistant mounting, your own comfortable style, and do give you a selection of useable sight pictures to work from (if you shoot that way) i dont think shooting clays will hurt too much in the long run as long as you can develop a technique for both which works. Edited December 16, 2005 by dunganick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 I agree, there is very little similarity between clays and live quarry shooting. What clays can give you, apart from basic technique, is confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 I've got to say that in my opinion, Clay Shooting and Pigeon Shooting simply don't mix well together, in that if you shoot too many Pigeons, your Clay Shooting will suffer....don't ask me why, but I've done a fair bit of both, and they simply ain't the same..!! Catamong Thats done my head in mate. I get rounded on the clays and do very well when on the woodies?? I know they are different but it helps me no end. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 LB, My Clay Shooting scores definitely suffer when I've been shooting too many Woodies, and I'm a AAA Class shot in Sporting...!! A guy I shoot clays with regularly who has a very promising 14 year old son has actually stopped him from shooting Woodies because his scores were suffering so badly. Having said that, if you're a mediocre shot, I suppose any practice is good practice. Catamong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Thanks guys. i'm out tomorrow and will try to 'miss in front'. It's worked for me in the past, I've just lost my rhythm. Will let you know if I find it! You have PM ochre Merry Christmas WB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 I'm a AAA Class shot in Sporting...!! its alright for some we will see if shooting woodies has effected my shooting tomorrow, hopefully not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invector Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 (edited) I believe that the reverse is also true, and that prolonged clay shooting might affect my pigeon shooting!! :< I`m interested in studying, attracting and killing pigeons, and other winged pests, and not playing games shooting at little discs, which are slowing down, on an almost predictable flight path. I certainly don`t need a session on clays to improve my confidence, which has been gained in the field, in all weathers, taking every shot in the book, often from a cramped, cold and wet position. Edit: Insertion of smilies!! Edited December 17, 2005 by invector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROB REYNOLDS UK Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 (edited) i started in the field shooting pigeon some 9 years ago then went on to clay shooting to improve on my shooting and stayed on the clays for some years then went back to pigeon shooting could not hit meny as the lead is differant ..i think now im doing just pigeon again i think pigeon need less than clays why you say i think most of its down to the speed a clay needs to stay up in the air as to a pigeon flapping to stay up a pigeon with out dought is harder to hit than any clay i find clays a bit boreing now still like to go from time to time in fact im takeing my mate to one tomorrow as i have been teaching him from the start and is comeing on nice..iv found that a clay that need 2 ft lead and a pigeon out the same distance needs just over a foot , most people i have given addvise to i would tell them to nock a foot off what ever they were going to give it most pigeon are missed by clay shooter by over leading the bird ...give it less i say ..its hard to put some body right with out seeing them shoot ,i say going clay shooting it will help it did me but i did do 5 years of clay compertion but have now seen the light and back to what i went there for in the first place pigeons/crows ect but what i have forgot to say is this i would give a pigeon with the wind up its back side the same as a clay if not more ,try to read what speed the pigeon is going at not what it looks like its going at in other wards a pigeon flying in to a head wind will be flapping like hell but going no were so need no real lead .try and go with some body who knows how to shoot pigeon it may help Edited December 17, 2005 by ROB REYNOLDS UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 RRUK, For once I think I agree with you, despite the fact that I find your style of posting, (all joined up sentences, no paras), a bit difficult to read. Pigeons do generally need less lead than most clays, particularly when decoying. Obviously when flight shooting, on a windy day, shooting high birds flighting downwind, its a different game. Catamong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROB REYNOLDS UK Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 (edited) Catamong, im, a .bloke. not, a ..secetary ` but i know what your saying my speeling is bad as well it been 30 yrs since i was at skool i cant be good looking and have brains mind you i am gifted but not in that way :thumbs: Edited December 17, 2005 by ROB REYNOLDS UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 i cant be good looking and have brains Why not ? I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROB REYNOLDS UK Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 (edited) may be so , :thumbs: but your not gifted the way i am ,lets just say i should of been born black just cut me off at the knees and call me a trypod a girl came up to me last week and said your rob reynolds aint you ?yes i am i said ...shes says , theres a roomer going round that you have a 12" **** she said ,i said ,yes i know i started it now you know im only jokeing ..i was haveing a pee out in the field yesterday and my mate says does they come in mans sizes as well as kids sizes :thumbs: b***erd springs to mind Edited December 18, 2005 by ROB REYNOLDS UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Oh I'd give 'em as much lead as possible, #6 shot 32gms full pattern or 1'-6' lead depending upon how fast they're flying the vagaries of the English language, don't you just love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invector Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 The word we`re all looking for is illiterate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P03 Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 (edited) Normally find if I think about leading I miss :< , if I just do it I think Christ that was a fXXXXXg good shot, why is there nobody here to tell me what a FXXXXXg good shot I am? ..................then I get cocky and go home with only one bird Edited December 21, 2005 by P03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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