Who's Got The Vermin Condition On There FAC ?

[activeviii]

I did have a problem with vermin for shooting canada's last month so a phone call to sort it didnt work as i was told their out of season. i soon put that right and pointed then in the right direction so they could get the right fact. then they siad i couldnt shot with a rifle as there not vermin. so i asked then to define the word 'vermin'. i spoke to SACS and he say i did right and to fill my boots as they are in the wrong. if i get a problem then he will back me up.

 

i have vermin on all my rifles by the way.

[wymberley]

Interesting that you should say that as Devon have always listed Fox on my fac and everyone I know for that matter.

Don't disbelieve you, Charlie, just goes to show what a postcode lottery it is. My experience in the south of the county is as I said. The only time that I had fox specified was for "and occasional fox" on the 243 which was the wording I used when applying for it.

Cheers

[Bazooka Joe]

I did have a problem with vermin for shooting canada's last month so a phone call to sort it didnt work as i was told their out of season. i soon put that right and pointed then in the right direction so they could get the right fact. then they siad i couldnt shot with a rifle as there not vermin. so i asked then to define the word 'vermin'. i spoke to SACS and he say i did right and to fill my boots as they are in the wrong. if i get a problem then he will back me up.

 

i have vermin on all my rifles by the way.

 

 

Hi activeviii, this just highlights how incompetent some forces are when interpreting the firearms law etc. Looks like most FLO are run by civilians, who have no interest in shooting, & no experience either. Then again they are just programed with different responses, from there superiors, as per yesterday.

 

I've just done a search on PW & found that a near identical thread, started by MickyFinn I think, on this very subject, so it seems that it's an ongoing issue in different areas.

 

BJ

[al4x]

It'll be interesting to see what happens on my renewal as just put in for a .243 as well in Herts was thinking of chopping in the .223 but if I don't get vermin on the .243 I'll keep it as its great for long distance bunnies and rooks etc

[stubby]

As your rimfire is only conditioned for humane dispatch you presumably do not use it for sporting purposes but just for putting down animals.

 

It's used for pest control,

[wymberley]

There is a bottom line to all this.

FLOs, FEOs, whatever, do not issue any certificates. The person who did is whoever signed it and it cannot be delegated. Consequently, your certificate reflects the Force policy and the buck stops at the top.

Cheers

[darren_mc]

they would not let me have vermin on my .222 and .243,and when i put in for my .243 they said i could not have it as my .222 had fox and deer on it so i did not need it, took a few phone calls to get it the land was clear for up to .243 but they did not want the 2 rifles for the same quarry, after all the trouble getting the .243 did not go on for the vermin for the c/f

 

darren

[Mr_Logic]

I had an argument on the phone, a very nice argument, and got 243 added for vermin specifically.

[stokeshooter]

Staffordshire give me vermin/fox/legal deer on 223 :blink:

[dunganick]

There is a bottom line to all this.

FLOs, FEOs, whatever, do not issue any certificates. The person who did is whoever signed it and it cannot be delegated. Consequently, your certificate reflects the Force policy and the buck stops at the top.

Cheers

 

Except that the policy of different forces should be in line. They all work to the same law, the law is not different owing to your geographical location, unfortunately parts of the firearms laws use guidelines which often get used as hard and fast rules (for example the graph which says which calibre's/cartridges are suitable for what quarry).

 

It is a condition they can add, but often drag their heels as they dont like the idea of you using a .308 to shoot rabbits in vast numbers (its going to cause issues).

 

A common solution is to grant a deer legal round with the conditions to the effect of 'you can shoot vermin/fox whilst stalking', which limits your night time shooting naturally.

 

I know when BASC got involved in my recent renewal issues this matter got cleared up quickly and i was granted the condition 'the shooting of vermin or, in connection with the management of any estate, other wildlife' - (i have this condition on all my centerfires, .223, 6.5, 308)

 

As ever if your having issues then use your BASC membership, it is worth your time giving them a call at the very least, they can recommend to you how you might proceed without their input.

[Beardo]

It'll be interesting to see what happens on my renewal as just put in for a .243 as well in Herts was thinking of chopping in the .223 but if I don't get vermin on the .243 I'll keep it as its great for long distance bunnies and rooks etc

 

Here's mine as of 05/05/10 - still got Vermin/Fox (even on 6.5mm)

[al4x]

fingers crossed mine is like it though my FEO doesn't give guns out like smarties like yours :blink:

 

its sensible though and saves you taking more than one gun out when security and where to leave them becomes an issue. I'll quite regularly pop bunnies with the .223 overkill it maybe, humane it certainly is so where is the problem

[kdubya]

Here's mine as of 05/05/10 - still got Vermin/Fox (even on 6.5mm)

 

where does it say you can shoot vermin with your 6.5? your addtional conditions only state that the guns listed on your cert cover deer, fox, and vermin, not that they should be used for all?

 

KW

[MC]

where does it say you can shoot vermin with your 6.5? your addtional conditions only state that the guns listed on your cert cover deer, fox, and vermin, not that they should be used for all?

 

KW

 

 

Point 6 lists the rifles and point 8 says vermin. If you couldn't use a rifle for a particular quarry it would be listed.

 

Sorry my mistake,

 

Point 5 states that the rifles that this certificate indicates, which means all of them on it. Point 6 is the ammunition

Edited September 14, 2010 by MC

[kdubya]

Point 6 lists the rifles and point 8 says vermin. If you couldn't use a rifle for a particular quarry it would be listed.

 

Sorry my mistake,

 

Point 5 states that the rifles that this certificate indicates, which means all of them on it. Point 6 is the ammunition

 

so they way you read it means that .17 can be used for deer? I think the whole reason that this I have vermin you don't argument comes round and round,is that people don't understand there certs my cert states intended use of each gun then says exactly as point 8? it's a reference to the use of the guns and ammo not the suitability for intended quarry

 

KW

[al4x]

I've just got a list of guns then use after though only vermin and fox much the same as that. Its why the Home office are preferring the any legal quarry against each gun as that takes all the guesswork out of it. Obviously the HMR is illegal for deer so cannot be used however we can use them on foxes so its only the deer use that could be mis construed

[kdubya]

I've just got a list of guns then use after though only vermin and fox much the same as that. Its why the Home office are preferring the any legal quarry against each gun as that takes all the guesswork out of it. Obviously the HMR is illegal for deer so cannot be used however we can use them on foxes so its only the deer use that could be mis construed

 

 

which equates to a selective reading of the cert IE I know I wont get away with deer and hmr ?

 

KW

[al4x]

which equates to a selective reading of the cert IE I know I wont get away with deer and hmr ?

 

KW

 

 

simple fact is you probably would get away with it but that is a side issue. Which part on there says to you that you cannot use the 6.5 for vermin?

 

I'm sure I've got the .17hmr and .223 shall be used for Vermin control, fox and the zeroing mumbo jumbo

[allthegearandnoidea]

This is what mine says.

[dunganick]

I like the 5.56x45/223 comment. Must be a drilling you have there, being different cartridges.

[malkiserow]

My .243 says fox as does my .17HMR

[kdubya]

simple fact is you probably would get away with it but that is a side issue. Which part on there says to you that you cannot use the 6.5 for vermin?

 

I'm sure I've got the .17hmr and .223 shall be used for Vermin control, fox and the zeroing mumbo jumbo

 

 

as I said which part does ? again selective interpretation comes into play :blink: step 8 IE the vermin bit comes after the purchase and use of ammo step step 5 of his cert merely interprets the use for the guns he has not how each gun should be used and their suitabulity for quarry. oh and 99.99% have the mumbo jumbo again after ammo !

 

KW

[MC]

so they way you read it means that .17 can be used for deer? I think the whole reason that this I have vermin you don't argument comes round and round,is that people don't understand there certs my cert states intended use of each gun then says exactly as point 8? it's a reference to the use of the guns and ammo not the suitability for intended quarry

 

KW

 

 

No quite obviously not as the shooting of deer is covered by the deer act and specifies minimum calibres and energy etc.

 

My own certificate lists each gun by its serial number and says whet each one can be used for. My two target rifles are listed to be used on approved ranges only and the other two are listed as vermin control and estate management.

[kdubya]

My .243 says fox as does my .17HMR

 

if its specifically listed then good your sorted :blink: its just people are reading the general use terms for expanding ammo as a right to use each gun for just about everything, like yours my cert lists the quarry for each gun from fac air through to .243 no ambiguity or self interpretation (no bad thing its seems)

 

KW

[kdubya]

No quite obviously not as the shooting of deer is covered by the deer act and specifies minimum calibres and energy etc.

 

My own certificate lists each gun by its serial number and says whet each one can be used for. My two target rifles are listed to be used on approved ranges only and the other two are listed as vermin control and estate management.

 

ain't it funny for deer its obvious but for vermin its not? selective or what :blink: talk about double standards.

 

KW