Paddy Galore! Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 If i was comfortable with it i'd take a long range shot, depends what's classified as long range that's all (about 250yds for me) Not knocking anyone else for taking longer shots, if they're capable then good on em, if they miss then it's their conscience. Davek, the 700yd thing came from an earlier topic, this one came off the back of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Why doesnt someone do a poll on what is classed as long range ! Calibre specific. Although that wont work as some people tell porkies on forums. Why dont we do it on whats an ethical distance ! No that wont work as some people dont practise what they preach. Why dont we agree that you shouldnt shoot at animals unless there is a very good chance that you can kill it outright first time ! No that wont work either as some people say they can when they cant and others say they cant when they havent tried. Stuff this i am going for a pint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 I've just spent nearly 15 minutes reading every post on this thread and they seem to have got precisely nowhere. My opinion (For what little it is worth): If you have practiced at long range shooting, have the right equipment and rifle and are confident enough then go ahead but I will stick to what ranges I am comfortable with on live quarry - 200 yards max for foxes with the .222 and 175 (ish) yards with the HMR for rabbits (As long as there isn't too much wind)! I do not think of myself as being a "Long Range Sniper" as even when I was videoed doing a set of fairly accurate 300 yard shots (At paper) with a .222 I was as good as called a liar! There's just no pleasing some people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Gram71 Correct but it's still appropriate. Sprags, I didn't say you did. So the next question(s) then. Is "Because I can do it and I'm good at it" sufficient justification for using live quarry for target shooting. AND, does this qualify to be classified as pest control? BTW, on a slightly different tack, even with all the gear such as windmeters etc, how can someone predict what the wind is likely to be doing 400 yards away for example? It may be blowing in one direction where you are but doing something totally different further out. genuinely interested in this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 BTW, on a slightly different tack, even with all the gear such as windmeters etc, how can someone predict what the wind is likely to be doing 400 yards away for example? It may be blowing in one direction where you are but doing something totally different further out. genuinely interested in this one. To keep it simple you can't. When pushing out this far the time the bullet is in flight starts to casue problems too as things can actually change after the trigger has been pulled. The longest range I have shot targets at is 600 yards and if you watch tracer rounds at that range they curl and swerve in the wind like a Swallow chasing flies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 You know what I would love to see .... ? An organised meet and see just how great some are! It would definitely be interesting to see who can back the claims, who would bottle it. I just do not see the need to take the shots at silly distance,I only see the want to take the shot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Yes I'd like to see that too. Definitely be good fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varmartin Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 I was contemplating a write up to go with the pic...but you may have a coronary ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Yes I'd like to see that too. Definitely be good fun! Before you know it. long range shooting opportunities for sale. 100 notes half a day 150 for a full one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Before you know it. long range shooting opportunities for sale. 100 notes half a day 150 for a full one. And who will offer the mandatory training courses to be able to sign up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varmartin Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 We have regular meetings ...and would not dream of charging a penny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Cool - details please? Sounds fun! BTW, great shot on that rabbit - what calibre is the Sako? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 My take on long range shooting is that the wind takes away the consistency needed to be accurate. If all there was to consider was drop I would happily take shots at 500+ yards because I feel I could be that steady and dial my drop correctly. The trouble comes when you add wind. It's not a constant like drop. You never know exactly what the wind is going to do even if you have wind meters and flags. At 100 yards if there's a huge gust of wind as I take my shot the drift will be minimal at that range so the bullet will probably still hit the kill zone. If I do fluff it I can probably either shoot again or get up and run to my injured quarry before it manages to crawl back down it's burrow or run into cover. At 500 yards the drift could mean you shoot it's back end off, then because it's moving you have next to no chance of hitting it again. Even if you can jump in a truck and drive to it there's a good chance it will be gone by the time you get to it. People say if you hit a small animal with a centrefire it will die anyway. Well that's true if you hit the main body mass but what if you shoot its jaw or legs off? The energy transfer to the vitals isn't enough to kill in these cases no matter what calibre you're using. Nobody ever said there is no risk of wounding when shooting at under 100 yards but there's no getting around the fact that it's easier to fix a bad shot and also much less likely that you'll make one at shorter ranges. Gram71 Correct but it's still appropriate. Sprags, I didn't say you did. So the next question(s) then. Is "Because I can do it and I'm good at it" sufficient justification for using live quarry for target shooting. AND, does this qualify to be classified as pest control? BTW, on a slightly different tack, even with all the gear such as windmeters etc, how can someone predict what the wind is likely to be doing 400 yards away for example? It may be blowing in one direction where you are but doing something totally different further out. genuinely interested in this one. Totally agree with the above, shooting at paper at long range is fine but at live quarry? Stupid in my opinion, if that is a rabbit in the pic shot at 800+ yards then you sir are an idiot, if you had clipped that rabbit how do you expect to follow up and humanely dispatch? I have always been shown that most of the skill is getting close to the deer (example) without it being aware, the shot is the bit that's over quickly! I am totally with mungler on this one, it's nothing to do with the ability as most have done it on paper it's a macho thing of wanting to shoot live targets at long range which is just walt city in my book! And to answer the first question - the difference is the taliban shoot back! Regards, Gixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonsterandmerlin. Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 (edited) Some of you boys are clueless when it comes to longrange shooting be it rifles or any other weaponary . Yes some of you think its wrong to shot at live quarry at distance for a number of factors but most of it being skill level is below that is needed for this shooting. Some think its wrong to shoot at live quarry full stop for the reasons highlighted by yourselfs for longrange shots if your not prepared for the harsh fact that you may injury a animal then go knitting . The only clear thing we need to is try to reduce animal suffering and you some can shot beter at 500 yards than others at 100yards. How many shots did the sniper have at the guy I think it was 4/5 shot berfore his spotter dial his shot in for him. I think its a good debate but only rifle shooters with true knowledge of long range shooting can have meaningfull imput to debate . Cheers OTH Edited October 25, 2010 by Over the hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 Totally agree with the above, shooting at paper at long range is fine but at live quarry? Stupid in my opinion, if that is a rabbit in the pic shot at 800+ yards then you sir are an idiot, if you had clipped that rabbit how do you expect to follow up and humanely dispatch? I have always been shown that most of the skill is getting close to the deer (example) without it being aware, the shot is the bit that's over quickly! I am totally with mungler on this one, it's nothing to do with the ability as most have done it on paper it's a macho thing of wanting to shoot live targets at long range which is just walt city in my book! And to answer the first question - the difference is the taliban shoot back! Regards, Gixer. If u have the skills,and its an occasional thing then go for it,hydrostatic shock should do the job on rabbits,hare if just cliped. What we are seeing here is I believe resentment of target shooters, well I'm one who does and enjoys both target and bloodsports. Target is good practice and stands u in good steed for live quarry kills.(Go to the range on a dsc1 don't you?). As for the respect of animals etc well I've shot many rabbits only to have the thing go to ground upon retrieval,sure I felt bad what what can u do? Sometimes they move as the projectile is making its way to target. Anyhow in conclusion if its a occasional thing not mainstream then I see nothing wrong in it,but deer fox boar must be taken at a sensible distance to allow quick follow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 Once again, I ask the question "why the need to shoot something that breathes at 700 or 800 yards?" The only answer is selfish because it's "I can" or "I want to". There is no other answer or indeed good reason is there? You can blather on about practice, consistency and dialing in the shots but if you got a group of the best trained snipers on the planet they will consistently shoot better and put more shots in a kill zone more often at shorter ranges. Long range stuff is fine for paper, but if it breathes, do it a favour and get nearer to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 I have to add as a "LONG RANGE " shooter, I would feel perfectly confident of going to a range like Bisley any day of the week and putting a bullet through the middle of a target and any range upto 1000 yards. I know I can do this and have done many times, I have also shot TR for my county team. However that is in a fairly well controlled enviroment and I shot at these distances before several times and also have a history of elevation and wind allowances built up over time. However that said I would not take a shot at a living animal at anywhere near those ranges as the variables are too great. There can be a world of difference between 700 yards and 725yards. I know that when I go to Bisley and set up on the 600 points that the target is 600 yards away. I also know what elevation I need from my 300 yard zero. However this doesn't garantee a V Bull, and also a vee bull at 600 yards is 7.8 inches in diameter so there is a fair margin for error. I doubt that anyone with the naked eye could see a hare at 704 yards, let alone hit it. Also several people are adding that they just look on a ballistic chart and dial it in, If only it were that easy. we would have a country full of world champion shooters (and not the armchair variety) Most scopes do not have the adjustment to allow the dialling in, which is why long range shooters use a 20MOA rail to give the extra elevation. IF the hare was hit at 704 yards then I suggest that it was a fluke and could not be repeated. After all we can all hit something once, doing it consistently is the name of the game. I also understand moving to get out of a cross wind but why move further away? Surely you could still get round to a head wind and be 150 yards away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 704 yard hare is girls stuff . I head shoot edible dor mice at 1200 yards all the time with my .308 ruger . The 308 will give you a few extra yards over the .243 . Harnser . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 doesn't really warrant a new thread does it? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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