Poachers

[dazza]

Some people think all poachers over the water are Irish. Read al4x's post that I was replying to.

 

' know a keeper who has done it and well some of your countrymen decided to have a go and lets say they didn't try it again, and funnily enough they ran to the police'

[al4x]

Some people think all poachers over the water are Irish. Read al4x's post that I was replying to.

 

' know a keeper who has done it and well some of your countrymen decided to have a go and lets say they didn't try it again, and funnily enough they ran to the police'

 

 

the vast majority who run dogs on other peoples ground here are Dazza, its not fiction they just think because they live in caravans and travel that they are untouchable. The keeper in question did end up in court but got off but only just, Anyway we'll just have to disagree that most dogmen don't worry about boundaries or permission.

[paddywack12]

the vast majority who run dogs on other peoples ground here are Dazza, its not fiction they just think because they live in caravans and travel that they are untouchable.

 

Agreed.

 

in my area anyway.

[Redgum]

Theres a local story that happened a couple of years ago around my way. A local farmer had reoccuring problems with travelling types and dogs on his land. Saying travelling types, they have actually camped up for the last 20years or so and have put bricks around their caravans. The farmer shot two dogs and threw the bleedy bodies into the back of his pickup and drove into the travellers camp, opened up the back and chucked the dead dogs on the ground saying," I think these belong to you and if I catch any of you on my farm it won't be dogs I will be delivering back next time."

The farmer never had more hassle, though this approach does carry a government health warning and obviously should not be repeated at home. Most around here believe these accounts and the farmer in question is a bear of a man, a local tug of war legend and it gives me a warm glow inside to think this is true. Last year there was a murder in the same camp, one of their own killing one of their own, the police sent in 40 officers to sort it. That farmer must have balls of pure and solid brass.

[wildfowler.250]

Plenty of people get guns and they have knowwhere to use them. Just have a look in the permission wanted section.

 

I would agree with that to a certain extent however guns don't need exercised.

 

 

 

 

ATB

[Greenhunter]

Plenty of people get guns and they have knowwhere to use them. Just have a look in the permission wanted section.

I thought that it was necessary to prove a need for a firearm!! Getting one without anywhere to shoot live targets is possible if you say you want to shoot clays. Which is what happens first and then people decide they would like to try shooting live stuff. What happens then, if they do get a permission, is something that worries me but that's another story.

 

This thread has been going for sometime but I'm posting on it today as, coincidentally, it is relevant as I have just been out for a walk round on one of my bits of land, just to see what was about, only to find 4X4 tracks all round the fields. Luckily, not too much damage as the ground was really frozen but the empty can of Fosters left in the middle of the field upset me almost as much as the idea of someone else taking the rabbits I should have had! I haven't been out simply because I won't use the rimmie over frozen ground for the obvious safety reasons..these 'people' had no worries in that direction!! Admittedly they could have been dog men or using other calibers but it doesn't stop me thinking what might have been going down!!

 

It's not on, no matter what the 'excuse' might be.

[njc110381]

I think if you are going to shoot a ****** dog then you have to be prepared for war! Where does it end? If you shoot the dog you near enough have to be prepared to shoot the owner too because that's how far it can go.

 

What do you think you can get away with without getting caught? It's common knowledge that people who break the law are in a better position than those that are good people.

 

Whatever happens the tried by twelve still stands for me. I'd do whatever it takes to make sure I wasn't the one being carried. I think from one end of the scale to the other it's better to try not to get into that situation in the first place unless you have no choice!

[dazza]

Is calling someone a ***** racist? Just wondering

[olim]

Is calling someone a ***** racist? Just wondering

 

 

not really, but they say it can be.

[latchy]

there again pulling people down. i live near a camp site and have done all my life and im yet 2 have a bad word said to me by any of them. . ye you get the bad ones but dony tou in all forms of life . at the end of the day this comes down to an arrgument about shooting an innocent dog for the handler doing wrong.. like many farmers and keepers do wrong and many humen beighns

[proTOM1]

[quote name='latchy' timestamp='1291925562' post='1257529 like many farmers and keepers do wrong

 

Hi you keep saying in your posts its only a select few dogmen and this is the same for keepers and farmers not many a few bad ones !

 

We have no end of trouble from dogmen with the area being flat its hard work but the best thing to do is call the police as its against the law and they now have the power to take there cars off them which is working very well round us and i have to say its the older dogmen we get and only a few younger guys plus its nearly the same few gangs each time .

We have now gated all trackes and so on and this has worked well and like said the police are being ver pro-active we have 2 cars around for most of the day and more than 4 on the weekend ,the more you report and get them moved on the less they come to your area . i know they will go else where but if everyone was to report them it would make it much harder for them

 

Its not the dogs fault so leave it be its the handlers so shop them asap

[Redgum]

I was on the Deer Fund stand at the Midland Game fair, as most will know the Midland is more lurchers and tattoos than the CLA. On the stall there is stuffed, half devoured Munty to highlight what pet dogs can do to deer. One chap found this quite funny and told me his dogs would kill fallow much cleaner than that.We entered into a long and interesting conversation about hunting deer with dogs. This chap was a likable fellow of obvious intelligence and his view was that people were hunting with dogs long before the gun was around and it was in his blood. He hated the high moral standing of deer stalkers and ranted of politics and the working classes etc. He thrived on the adrenalin fueled night antics and the thrill of the risk,even explaining of how they legally get their dogs back from the police pound. Apparently groups plan weekend reckies to the highlands for a couple of nights on the red deer with their dogs.This chap was smart and knew the chances of being caught are slim and the law protects him from being shot. It was interesting conversation hearing his views and it made me realise just how powerless a law abiding generally good citizen is against these people.

[Fishermanpaddy]

the vast majority who run dogs on other peoples ground here are Dazza, its not fiction they just think because they live in caravans and travel that they are untouchable. The keeper in question did end up in court but got off but only just, Anyway we'll just have to disagree that most dogmen don't worry about boundaries or permission.

 

Im not trying to stir things up here but I respectfully disagree. A large portion of that vast majority will hold English birth certs and have spent their whole life in England. Their habits, accent and mannerisims will have been learned from their camp giving the impression that they are Irish. I have met many tinkers in my travels and I agree with you that a lot are arrogant with an I dont give a f##k attitude, but a lot are also very respectful.

 

Im not defending anyone here just trying to outline that there is good and bad to be had in every type of people.

[Redgum]

Im not trying to stir things up here but I respectfully disagree. A large portion of that vast majority will hold English birth certs and have spent their whole life in England. Their habits, accent and mannerisims will have been learned from their camp giving the impression that they are Irish. I have met many tinkers in my travels and I agree with you that a lot are arrogant with an I dont give a f##k attitude, but a lot are also very respectful.

 

Im not defending anyone here just trying to outline that there is good and bad to be had in every type of people.

In my experience this is true,poachers are not always Welsh or ****** as the media always make out. I have heard it from the horses mouth that the people who run dogs at deer and hares come from all walks of life from the unemployed chap trying to get some extra cash to London investment bankers. Its seen as an adrenalin rush and a historical right that has been carried on for many generations and dare I say it, quite a northern thing. They are openly throwing two fingers up to the law as they see it that the working class passion is surpressed by the upper classes in the laws they create. When speaking to one of these chaps in length he brought up the subject of fox hunting, its against the law, thats what the general public wanted, laws were passed but has it stopped land owners hunting foxes with hounds, of course not, they are pretty much protected from the law regardless.This is something that has been going on for hundreds of years and unfortunatly in economic down turns it is worse. Around my area poaching isnt restricted to hares and deer, turkey, pig, sheep and chicken farmers are also targeted.

[dazza]

Good discussion. Put the legalities to one side. What are peoples thoughts on using dogs to take deer?

[al4x]

they aren't up to doing it humanely with the bigger species, baying them with hounds to be shot is one thing coursing them another.

[Redgum]

Good discussion. Put the legalities to one side. What are peoples thoughts on using dogs to take deer?

It depends on who you talk to,I shoot deer to control their numbers and stop them becoming a pest thus the landowner will tolerate them on their land. I try to make sure that killing of deer is done as humanely and stress free as possible.

Some run dogs to course deer for the sport, others use the dogs to drive deer into nets were they are hacked to death and butchered on the soil. Coursing a deer with dogs causes obvious stress, broken limps and injury, its illegal and as its carried out without permission and makes the landowners real mad to the point they would rather all the deer shot to resolve the problem. As mentioned earlier I have talked to a few chaps who run dogs for this purpose and the arguement is its the most natural way of taking deer as deer are prey animals and have been chased by dogs for millions of years. The fittest of deer will either out run the dogs or fend them off( obviously if being poached and there is a net in the way its another matter). This process to some seems much more acceptable than creeping up to an animal and releasing a high powered rifle round at its lungs. And another point brought up in conversation was resentment to big landowners mis managing deer populations for gold medal trophies eg more females then more chance of good bucks or stags.( over population of reds in scotland has been a massive problem in recent years and ironically some are lobbying for wolves to be reintroduced to sort this.)

[al4x]

Interestingly we had them out on Tuesday night judging by the tracks, slightly concerning as surely you don't run dogs on very frozen ground which would mean they were using firearms.

[dazza]

In some places it would seem poaching with firearms is as big a problem as poaching with dogs?

[Fishermanpaddy]

over population of reds in scotland has been a massive problem in recent years and ironically some are lobbying for wolves to be reintroduced to sort this.)

 

Thats a topic that could have a forum dedicated to it.

[al4x]

thats assuming they didn't give a hoot about their dogs, poaching with firearms carries a hell of a risk with it from a legal standpoint. They don't just let you off as they do with dogs

[dazza]

Would it be the Irish travellers with the firearms?

[al4x]

unlikely

[BADFEET]

To be honest, some of the things I have read on this thread about dogs and people who work dogs is a bit like saying "All people who own guns just shoot at anything and everything no matter what it is and dont care if they wound it or not"

 

 

It really is as un-informed as that......shocking to see really.

[Redgum]

Its amazing how those that run outside the law have so little fear of it, and some who work with dogs have so little emotional attachment to their animals. Around here people lamp from their vehicles and will take any deer they see. Recently seven butchered fallows were discovered by a walker, interestingly apparently the poachers vehicles used Forestry tracks that are paddlock up with combination locks, no locks had been broken.

As deer numbers increase then so will all of these problems, what can we do, and I really think the police are nervous about tackling villians that have no worries in giving them a hiding, prison to them is an occupational hazard. Its much easier to lean on the morally honest man, you will be able to squeeze much more money out of him, safely too.