Badger cull?

[njc110381]

I just received an e-mail from the Gloucestershire Wildlife Trust asking me to oppose the Badger cull? Supposedly trials are due to take place here and they don't agree with it.

 

I've replied in great detail that I will not be casting my vote either way until I know more details. I can see both sides of the arguement and to be perfectly frank I feel that an uninformed vote is worse than no vote at all! Unfortunately there will be a lot of anti response because Badgers are cute and fluffy rather than based on facts.

 

So, what's the score with the cull? Is it about time Badgers got whacked? There are too many about in some places TB or not and other species suffer for that, but that's just a conclusion I've come to in my own mind?

[pegleg31]

i've no problem with a controlled cull.however i'd hate to see the day when anyone with a rifle and vermin on their license can go out and shoot them

 

i'll probably get slated for my view,however it's only my view and i'm not saying it's correct

[955i]

I think the main problem will be that many shooters (and more than a few off here!!) have been gagging to get a chance to shoot badgers, often to my mind not because of any issue they cause but because along with the fox they are the biggest carnivores you get in this country.

 

I think that if it happens (and to my mind it shouldn't really as TB is the only argument FOR it and I believe that there are other just as significant factors such as transport of livestock responsible for the spread of the disease that should be dealt with first, but hey, everyone loves a scapegoat ) then it will have to be very carefully run or it will just turn into a free for all with populations being wiped out in some areas that have had stable populations for many years.

Edited December 1, 2010 by 955i

[BADFEET]

Anyone who spends anytime in the field will know that this country is literally heaving with brock.

Control wont effect the population any more than it effects the fox population, that said you can bet your bottom dollar that field sportsmen wont get a look in, political P.R will dictate that its the men in white coats who will do the cull by gassing every bloody thing!!

Edited December 1, 2010 by BADFEET

[Fisherman Mike]

I don’t agree with Badger Culls

 

I would like Defra to show me unequivocal documented evidence that Badgers spread Bovine Tubercolosis.

 

Indigenous wildlife will always find its own natural levels of population depending on habitat and food source availability without any help from us.

 

If the numbers of badgers are burgeoning its because 3 above is true.

 

We shouldn’t **** about with nature

 

Government should forward the development programme of a suitable vaccine instead of dilly dally about waiting for the European commission to get its *** into gear.

[al4x]

about time you hung up your guns and went to work for the antis fishermanmike

 

for a few facts have a look here

 

http://jamesmarchington.blogspot.com/2010/11/theyve-all-gone-badger-bonkers.html

 

 

simple thig is they aren't looking for a blanket cull just round affected farms, the plus points will be a major boost to ground nesting birds in areas where the badgers are culled. They are a top predator and have nothing to stop them other than cars at the moment. I like seeing them but I'm not trying to farm cattle in an affected area. The graph above speaks for itself and yes listen to the antis too much and we would all be out of a hobby

[Richie10]

I don’t agree with Badger Culls

 

I would like Defra to show me unequivocal documented evidence that Badgers spread Bovine Tubercolosis.

 

Indigenous wildlife will always find its own natural levels of population depending on habitat and food source availability without any help from us.

 

If the numbers of badgers are burgeoning its because 3 above is true.

 

We shouldn’t **** about with nature

 

Government should forward the development programme of a suitable vaccine instead of dilly dally about waiting for the European commission to get its *** into gear.

 

He he! You are an anti!

 

I like you Mike, you certainly stir things up.

 

There are now more Bagders than ever before. Your anti view that everything has a natural level of population is good for the top levels of the food chain but not for the lower levels.

Badgers are opportunists and benefit from humans as well as natural food sources. If you let the number of larger predators increase then below will suffer, such as ground nesting birds etc. What this theory benefits is the foxes and badgers of our land and antis, it doesn't take into account that a higher level of predation is needed to keep these guys in check. This is the role of humans which previously was taken by wolves(a very long time ago).

[silverhawk]

where i go lamping Theres more badgers on my permission then rabbits in a space of 5hours we counted 17 .

Edited December 4, 2010 by silverhawk

[CEREALTHRILLER]

I don’t agree with Badger Culls

 

I would like Defra to show me unequivocal documented evidence that Badgers spread Bovine Tubercolosis.

 

Indigenous wildlife will always find its own natural levels of population depending on habitat and food source availability without any help from us.

 

If the numbers of badgers are burgeoning its because 3 above is true.

 

We shouldn’t **** about with nature

 

Government should forward the development programme of a suitable vaccine instead of dilly dally about waiting for the European commission to get its *** into gear.

 

What he said

[drut]

"where i go lamping Theres more badgers on my permission then rabbits "

 

Same here!Badgers everywhere.

[CharlieT]

I'm with you FishermanMike.

 

To often a thread comes up on this forum from a trigger happy, bloodthirsty, gun owning reprobate wanting to know when he will be allowed to add another of God's creatures, namely the poor old badger, to his quarry list.

 

Just because bumbling Mr Brock is beginning to recover from years of persecution and return to his centuries old sets counts for nothing. It's time to hound him again and shoot him on sight and then chuck him in a ditch cause he's not that popular on the table for Sunday lunch nor are his bristles sought after for shaving brushes as most of the population seems to favour the unkempt facial look of David Beckham.

 

But the shout goes up, he's a ferocious, dirty, disease spreading, opportunistic carnivore who delights in eating ground nesting birds, lambs, deer calves, rare bees nests and any other delight he may come across. Btb is endemic in his population and it is he most probably who transmitted this dreadful disease to deer and it is most definitely he who spreads it to my cows and calves who incidentally live in a closed heard and therefore never come into contact with other beasts to contract the disease.

 

There is only one solution and that is to shoot them and give us a bit of sport in the doing, chuck him in the ditch and spread Btb to another unsuspecting cow who happens to be grazing quietly in her field.

 

We as a nation spend millions vaccinating people against flu, yet refuse to permit the vaccination of cattle against Btb. Far better to shoot the badger and perhaps while were at it the OAP with flu thus providing more sport and saving on the cost of vaccine.

[al4x]

this vaccine you talk about Charlie is there one?

 

This demonstrates what the issue is and why stopping controlling badgers has actually been detrimental for them as it has increased the problem. Ignore the ground nesting birds we don't need them as Fisherman Mike says the badgers will just wipe them out and all other sources of food and at that point their population will decline thats how nature works.

 

 

 

The whole cull issue isn't a blanket cull it is purely where it is proved the local population has TB and as the above graph demonstrates the system used to work.

[markbivvy]

I'm with you FishermanMike.

 

To often a thread comes up on this forum from a trigger happy, bloodthirsty, gun owning reprobate wanting to know when he will be allowed to add another of God's creatures, namely the poor old badger, to his quarry list.

 

Just because bumbling Mr Brock is beginning to recover from years of persecution and return to his centuries old sets counts for nothing. It's time to hound him again and shoot him on sight and then chuck him in a ditch cause he's not that popular on the table for Sunday lunch nor are his bristles sought after for shaving brushes as most of the population seems to favour the unkempt facial look of David Beckham.

 

But the shout goes up, he's a ferocious, dirty, disease spreading, opportunistic carnivore who delights in eating ground nesting birds, lambs, deer calves, rare bees nests and any other delight he may come across. Btb is endemic in his population and it is he most probably who transmitted this dreadful disease to deer and it is most definitely he who spreads it to my cows and calves who incidentally live in a closed heard and therefore never come into contact with other beasts to contract the disease.

 

There is only one solution and that is to shoot them and give us a bit of sport in the doing, chuck him in the ditch and spread Btb to another unsuspecting cow who happens to be grazing quietly in her field.

 

We as a nation spend millions vaccinating people against flu, yet refuse to permit the vaccination of cattle against Btb. Far better to shoot the badger and perhaps while were at it the OAP with flu thus providing more sport and saving on the cost of vaccine.

 

Have some posts been taken of please C, or have you been sniffing the sheep dip again.

[al4x]

unless things have changed there isn't a vaccine available and things are getting exponentially worse with no action. Here is a little bit from DEFRA and yes they admit vaccination would be the best way forward except there isn't one yet

 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/diseases/atoz/tb/research/vaccine.htm

[CharlieT]

Al4x

 

My post above was a little tongue in cheek, I strongly believe that badgers are responsible for the spread of bTB in cattle and would support a badger cull in bTB hot spots. On my land I am of the view that the only good badger is a dead one !.

 

However in my view the only way forward for the long term is to vaccinate cattle and I gather that a vaccine should be available in 2012. Regrettably under EU law it is illegal to vaccinate cattle against bTB and I gather that it will be at least 2015 before the EU law will be changed. This is one of the reasons DEFRA favours localised badger culls now (in addition to the £40 odd million they have spent on vaccine development which, as I said, should bear fruit by 2012). The problem with the EU is that vaccinated cattle would show positive with the current bTB skin test and therefore vaccinated cattle would show positive and as such would scupper their testing policy. Although as we all know that test is hardly definitive and is little better than useless.

[CharlieT]

Have some posts been taken of please C, or have you been sniffing the sheep dip again.

 

 

Just my warped sense of humour towards Fishermanmikes post and as you say a little to much sheep dip in years gone bye.

[markbivvy]

Top man C .Bronze maggots have a lot to answer for.

thanks

[al4x]

I thought it was tongue in cheek till the last bit

 

its a case of how to convince Brian May and Fisherman Mike they are linked when the evidence just gets dismissed

[stokie]

I remember reading that Defra were proposing to vaccinate badgers against TB in 2 areas throughout the country . One of which was Staffordshire . They scrapped the plan as it would be to costly .

Some of my farmers have been sent a letter asking them if they are in favour of a trial culling and to nominate the names of shooters they will give permission to .

Two of them have put my name forward but I have heard nothing more .

In Staffs and south Cheshire where I shoot there a lots of badgers and TB is rife again .

The only thing that worries me is that when shot how would you handle the carcass . I assume it will need to be destroyed

[BADFEET]

Fishermanmike is seriously confused I think, a shooter who used to work for the RSPCA!!

He shoots, but only when and what he considers to be right (nothing wrong with that) but seems to assume that his killing is better than someone elses killing??

Totally bizarre!

 

He lives in some of the best hunting country in England and the area is also lifting with brock and cattle farmers, but he seems very anti hunting? (unless its HIS hunting of course)

 

My feeling is that he probably still works for the RSPCA and is an information gatherer, not that anyone does anything wrong on here but they have never let that get in the way of a good story yet.

[wymberley]

I remember reading that Defra were proposing to vaccinate badgers against TB in 2 areas throughout the country . One of which was Staffordshire . They scrapped the plan as it would be to costly .

Some of my farmers have been sent a letter asking them if they are in favour of a trial culling and to nominate the names of shooters they will give permission to .

Two of them have put my name forward but I have heard nothing more .

In Staffs and south Cheshire where I shoot there a lots of badgers and TB is rife again .

The only thing that worries me is that when shot how would you handle the carcass . I assume it will need to be destroyed

Hi,

Your last 2 sentences make up the can of worms that as yet still has the lid on.

I ran, at grass roots level and on a day to day basis, the badger road kill survey in the south west. For various reasons, I would hazard a guess that the carcasses would need to be "bagged and tagged" and taken to the local veterinary science laboratory (if this is correct, it takes care of your final sentence). Now, this means doing so in the recognised manner and taking into account "health and safety" and as I can't see the lab driving around to collect them, the onus will/could be on the shooter to do it. This would require a (admittedly a limited) degree of training as you can bet your bottom dollar that DEFRA et al will ensure that there is no comeback on them if anything goes wrong.

If my guess is wrong then it still leaves the carcass to be disposed of in the correct manner.

In short, anyone jumping in with both feet without checking first of all what is entailed, may just wish they hadn't been quite so quick off the mark.

Cheers

[vulpicide]

A friend of mine is just back from digging Badgers in Sweden in his capacity as an expert witness he had been involved in recent prosecutions under the badger act now he has first hand experience in this method of pest control. Remember a badger is only a big WEASEL with a good PR team. :o

[Fisherman Mike]

Fishermanmike is seriously confused I think, a shooter who used to work for the RSPCA!!

He shoots, but only when and what he considers to be right (nothing wrong with that) but seems to assume that his killing is better than someone elses killing??

Totally bizarre!

 

He lives in some of the best hunting country in England and the area is also lifting with brock and cattle farmers, but he seems very anti hunting? (unless its HIS hunting of course)

 

My feeling is that he probably still works for the RSPCA and is an information gatherer, not that anyone does anything wrong on here but they have never let that get in the way of a good story yet.

 

 

Utter obllocks...

Many of the Cattle farmers around here and there are quite a few prime dairy herds have no association of TB cattle and badgers. Like I said show me documented hard evidence that Badgers are responsible for the spread of Bovine TB and I will load the cartridges.

One of my closest friends has a 4th generation pedigree Fresian herd locally that runs in fields frequented by large badger populations and he hasnt had a single outbreak in over 80 years.....

I do not work for the RSPCA and even if I did what Business is it of yours. I am not an anti either, I shoot when pigeons and other vermin are a problem at the invitation of some of the most established shooting estates in this area.. I have follwed the Berkely hunt for over 30 years... I shoot vermin within the confines of the law and within the meaning of the Defra licence...do you? I dont shoot woodcock, snipe or Plover because I belive them to be in decline.

 

Im afraid your post is typical of the general ill informed assasins which have degenerated this forum in the last few years who are only interested in shooting weekly anything that moves and feel inadequate if they dont.

 

 

Sorry badfeet but you havent got a clue what you are talking about....

[rodp]

Two things if I may gents, first, is it proven beyond doubt that Badgers are the main cause of infected cattle?

 

Secondly, below is a paragraph copied from the article by James Marchington.

 

There is no such thing as "badger baiting." People do not catch badgers and set up organised fights, in the manner of cockfighting or dogfighting (which do exist). It's a fiction put about by animal rights groups to smear anyone in favour of culling.

 

He's obviously never visited the Black Country, or I've got the wrong end of the stick

[Fisherman Mike]

As I understand it it can be any animal within the Animal Reservoir which will carry the Virus in dormant form even Humans

 

Perhaps we should organise a mass cull like they did with the Rabies scare in the South east of England in the late 60,s and all go out and blast the **** out of everything that moves....

 

Only then perhaps will many on this Forum be happy.