clay cartridges on pidgeons ???? whats your view please???

[lampingking]

recently i have been shooting alot of wood pigeons, now it is costing me a fortune in cartriges (£70 per 250 32gram 6's), i was looking at clay pigeon cartridges in the gun shop and they are a lot cheaper, do you think that clay cartriges would be ok for shooting woodies and a few crows. would they kill them , if so what gram and number, thanks lk

[V8 90]

I use "Kent High Velocity" 7 1/2's on Pigeons & clays 28grm seem fine to me fella !!

I have read in a comic 7 1/2 is an American size in this cartridge & is equal to UK 7.

[silver pigeon 3]

Personally i like to use 30/32g 6's for pigeons. £70 for 250 pigeon cartidges is a bit steep what are you buying? I normally pay about £180 a thousand for my pigeon cartridges.

[welshwarrior]

I use 28g and above and any shot UK 5-7 happily on woodies whatever I have I prefer 30g of 61/2 tho, so 7 maybe 71/2 should be fine.

[webber]

I shoot either Eley HB Pigeon or Hull Pigeon, both fibre wad. Pigeon cartridge for shooting Pigeon, clay cartridge for clays.

 

webber

[sitsinhedges]

Try and get 2.4mm shot which is actually a English size 7 even though the box might say 7 1/2. I think the extra shot in the pattern compared to 6s more than makes up for lack of size at reasonable ranges.

[ppuk]

Personally i like to use 30/32g 6's for pigeons. £70 for 250 pigeon cartidges is a bit steep what are you buying? I normally pay about £180 a thousand for my pigeon cartridges.

would it not be a good idea for members to state good deals in cartridges and where they get them from as they seem to vary big time from your £45 for 250 compared to £70 for 250 another member stated

[dazz]

recently i have been shooting alot of wood pigeons, now it is costing me a fortune in cartriges (£70 per 250 32gram 6's), i was looking at clay pigeon cartridges in the gun shop and they are a lot cheaper, do you think that clay cartriges would be ok for shooting woodies and a few crows. would they kill them , if so what gram and number, thanks lk

ive used d and j's in the past and there fine if the birds are comin close.there a 28g size 7 1/2.know what you meen about prices but ive just bought 250 ok carts made by nobel 30g size 5 for £45.can use them on clays to phesents and there are a clean cart compared to the d and j's.

 

cheers daz

[apache]

Have some respect for your quarry and use something suitable. Crows seem particularly hard and if they are further out you may need number 5's.

 

I don't doubt that you physically can shoot live quarry with a clay cart, but if it's on the edge of your patten and only takes one or two pellets then a 7 1/2 has a lot less energy than a 5 or 6. You are more likely to wound and do a less humane job. Shop around for a better value game cartridge!

 

30g 5 or 6 £189 + £15 P&P is £51/250

 

http://www.justcartridges.com/xtremegame.html

[sitsinhedges]

Nothing whatsoever wrong with 7s on a little bird such as a pigeon.

[Bluebarrels]

Nothing whatsoever wrong with 7s on a little bird such as a pigeon.

 

As above 7/7.5 no problem at all for shooting pigeon,as long as your a competent shot and keep the range sensible BB

[proTOM1]

7,5s are ok for pigeon shooting as long as you know your limits 6s are better but have shot plenty with 7.5s ,i now use a 20g and 6s . Cant say much about prices as this time of year i buy in bulk ready for the fun to start in feb

[Dekers]

Use the most appropriate cartridge for each task, just shop around and don't pay £280 x 1000.

 

Example

 

http://www.justcartridges.com/xtremegame.html

[Katash]

I read an article in a shooting mag about 6 months ago explaining clay loads and game loads have different antimony quantities, clay loads are harder to give a more uniform pattern but are not as good at killing as softer game loads that deform better on impact.

[sitsinhedges]

I read an article in a shooting mag about 6 months ago explaining clay loads and game loads have different antimony quantities, clay loads are harder to give a more uniform pattern but are not as good at killing as softer game loads that deform better on impact.

 

 

The difference is neglible with regards to killing potential in my opinion if you take a low antimony load of say 2% or a high one of 6% the actual weight difference is negligible and unless the pellet passes clean thru the bird all it's energy will be expended inside the bird.

[utectok]

I'm going to keep my head Low as these threads cause a few fireworks lol

It's a range thing IMHO 7 1/2 shot up 35yds on live game ??

[motty]

Have some respect for your quarry and use something suitable. Crows seem particularly hard and if they are further out you may need number 5's.

 

I don't doubt that you physically can shoot live quarry with a clay cart, but if it's on the edge of your patten and only takes one or two pellets then a 7 1/2 has a lot less energy than a 5 or 6. You are more likely to wound and do a less humane job. Shop around for a better value game cartridge!

 

30g 5 or 6 £189 + £15 P&P is £51/250

 

http://www.justcartridges.com/xtremegame.html

 

I use mostly 7 1/2 for my pigeon shooting and have lots of respect for my quarry. I don't take shots at 75 yards like i see some people do. A good example i can remember of shooting with 7 1/2 shot from last year was on a rape stubble in august. I shot 176 pigeons and a crow for 252 shots for a ratio of 1.42 shots per bird killed.I shot at birds from all angles and heights and killed them just as easily as if i'd been using 6 shot.

Now, everyone wounds the odd pigeon- no matter how good a shot they are. I class myself as a better than average shot. It is easy for a poor shot to blame shot size etc for missing or wounding birds. If you're on target with 7 1/2 shot, the bird should come down. Oh, by the way, on the edge of your pattern it's more likely to be hit with more pellet by using 7 1/2 shot as opposed to a 5.

Also- and i've mentioned this before- a mate of mine who always used to use 5's used to wound alot more birds than me using 7 1/2's.

Edited January 2, 2011 by motty

[Ferret Master]

There is a reason 'pigeon' cartridges are loaded in 5's, 6's and 6.5's.

 

Many people claim to use clay cartridges effectively on pigeon, but I bet if they were offered a box of 6's over a box of 7.5's or 8's they would pick the 6's every time. This is because most people that shoot clay cartidges for pigeon are doing it purely as a cost saving exercise and not because they are better. If they were better then they wouldn't bother loading cartidges in larger shot sizes!

 

I've shot with game cartridges and clay cartridges decoying pigeon last summer after I started to run out of shells on a good day and the 'proper' quarry shooting cartridges performed far more effectively. I was getting birds that were runners despite being hit in several vital areas with the smaller shot sizes, even in a 32g load. There is also the times when you clip a bird and need to have another shot at it at range as it flies away from you. Good luck dropping a pigeon with its backside facing you and flying away rapidly 50m out with an inferior shot size.

 

Moral of the story, buy some decent cartridges and it's one less thing to worry about.

 

FM

[apache]

OK doing a very basic calculation, using data from Hull carts [in my browsing history].

 

With Comp X 28g plastic wad 7.5 shot size as a 'budget clay cart'

Velocity @ 30m 212.5 m/s

Velocity @ 50m 157.7 m/s

Number of pellets 378

Mass of a single pellet 0.07g

Kinetic energy of 1 pellet @ 30m 1.58 joules

Kinetic energy of 1 pellet @ 50m 0.87 joules

 

With Hull Special Pigeon plastic wad 32g shot size number 6/

Velocity @ 30m 225.5 m/s

Velocity @ 50m 172.8 m/s

Number of pellets 288

Mass of a single pellet 0.11g

Kinetic energy of 1 pellet @ 30m 2.8 joules

Kinetic energy of 1 pellet @ 50m 1.6 joules

 

Doing a few simple calculations there are just over 25% more pellets in a 28g of 7.5's versus 32g of 6's but @ 50m to deliver the same energy to the bird it would require twice as many pellets to strike!

 

EACH number six has almost TWICE the energy of a number 7.5.

 

Energy = penetration and clean kills.

[sitsinhedges]

OK doing a very basic calculation, using data from Hull carts [in my browsing history].

 

With Comp X 28g plastic wad 7.5 shot size as a 'budget clay cart'

Velocity @ 30m 212.5 m/s

Velocity @ 50m 157.7 m/s

Number of pellets 378

Mass of a single pellet 0.07g

Kinetic energy of 1 pellet @ 30m 1.58 joules

Kinetic energy of 1 pellet @ 50m 0.87 joules

 

With Hull Special Pigeon plastic wad 32g shot size number 6/

Velocity @ 30m 225.5 m/s

Velocity @ 50m 172.8 m/s

Number of pellets 288

Mass of a single pellet 0.11g

Kinetic energy of 1 pellet @ 30m 2.8 joules

Kinetic energy of 1 pellet @ 50m 1.6 joules

 

Doing a few simple calculations there are just over 25% more pellets in a 28g of 7.5's versus 32g of 6's but @ 50m to deliver the same energy to the bird it would require twice as many pellets to strike!

 

EACH number six has almost TWICE the energy of a number 7.5.

 

Energy = penetration and clean kills.

 

 

Most pigeons aren't shot at 50metres where a pattern is full of pigeon sized holes are they. I have a case of Winchester Western 32gram 5s, American sizes so nearer to 4s and I would choose 7s over them every time because the patterns aren't there at range without tight chokes.

 

 

A look on youtube will show exactly what a clay cartridge will do at sensible ranges in competent hands and 400 pellets against 300 can fill in an awful lot of spaces in the pattern. I am happy to use both knowing either will do its job within its capabilities but I certainly wont be shooting at 50metres with any cartridge.

 

[Dekers]

Most pigeons aren't shot at 50metres where a pattern is full of pigeon sized holes are they. I have a case of Winchester Western 32gram 5s, American sizes so nearer to 4s and I would choose 7s over them every time because the patterns aren't there at range without tight chokes.

 

 

A look on youtube will show exactly what a clay cartridge will do at sensible ranges in competent hands and 400 pellets against 300 can fill in an awful lot of spaces in the pattern. I am happy to use both knowing either will do its job within its capabilities but I certainly wont be shooting at 50metres with any cartridge.

 

 

 

I think that is the whole point.....

 

Any cart is capable at the right range, but many push the lighter loads to far (frankly I think many push the heavier loads to far as well).

 

Some years back I did some thoroughly unscientific, but interesting tests on a bit of surplus 40mm chipboard worktop with the 12g.

 

Shots were VERY CLOSE, all around 25 feet (about 8 metres) I seem to remember, a 24g 9 hardly dented the surface, even that close, but obviously had a dense pattern, others were tried right up to and including a SG. EVERY lump of the SG went right through and left BIG holes on exit.

 

I'm sure you can fill the gaps in between the two shot sizes yourself, the lighter loads may well have a dense pattern but they do not carry their energy well, so for live quarry you need to be very close, the heavier loads carry their energy far better but the pattern is wide, so an appropriate balance has to be found!

[chrispti]

There is a reason 'pigeon' cartridges are loaded in 5's, 6's and 6.5's.

 

Many people claim to use clay cartridges effectively on pigeon, but I bet if they were offered a box of 6's over a box of 7.5's or 8's they would pick the 6's every time. This is because most people that shoot clay cartidges for pigeon are doing it purely as a cost saving exercise and not because they are better. If they were better then they wouldn't bother loading cartidges in larger shot sizes!

 

I've shot with game cartridges and clay cartridges decoying pigeon last summer after I started to run out of shells on a good day and the 'proper' quarry shooting cartridges performed far more effectively. I was getting birds that were runners despite being hit in several vital areas with the smaller shot sizes, even in a 32g load. There is also the times when you clip a bird and need to have another shot at it at range as it flies away from you. Good luck dropping a pigeon with its backside facing you and flying away rapidly 50m out with an inferior shot size.

 

Moral of the story, buy some decent cartridges and it's one less thing to worry about.

 

FM

 

 

100% agree with you mate.

 

I have used #7.5 before, killed the close birds ok but had a hell of allot of runners (if they came down in the first place) after being shot over, or passed the decoys (30 yrds out).

[motty]

Many top game shooters use size 7. There isn't much difference between those and a 7.5, is there.

[sitsinhedges]

Many top game shooters use size 7. There isn't much difference between those and a 7.5, is there.

 

 

Thought Archie Coates also settled on the 2.4mm English size 7 that is also known as 7 1/2 in a lot of clay cartridges

 

Certainly working for me roost shooting pigeons over the tops of some pretty high trees but still probably sub 40metres

[chrispti]

Many top game shooters use size 7.

 

Not according to page 50-51 of January 2011 Sporting Shooter

 

 

Edit to add;

 

That does only list 6 shooters and one of them uses #6.5.

Edited January 2, 2011 by chrispti