buckaroo23 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 .17 hmr for fox not restriction warwickshire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) would we want and or benefit from a single directive to cover the UK to tidy this up? Whilst a .22WMR may be ideal on a chicken farm for short range charlies it wont suit other applications such as on large open areas where a CF is clearly needed Edited March 1, 2011 by pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 would we want and or benefit from a single directive to cover the UK to tidy this up? Whilst a .22WMR may be ideal on a chicken farm for short range charlies it wont suit other applications such as on large open areas where a CF is clearly needed depends how picky you want to be on conditions, I am happy foxes are vermin or pests so would shoot them with those conditions helped by my force having some people that say its ok. And there you have the issue, individual FEO's making it up so unless you have fox on there you can never be sure its still policy. as you say in the right situations they do the job well and better than a centrefire if you have to think about noise and ricochets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Yep, hmr for fox and vermin!! Essex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsamatt Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 .17 hmr for fox not restriction warwickshire same here, got HMR for fox in Warwickshire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the crowman Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 hi all just had Bob(Westmids) round to grant me my FAC cant use .17HMR for fox min .222 it only took 2weeks well done Westmids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant.mass Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 We have had this debate many a time, I have .22lr, HMR and WMR ALL conditioned for fox. Thames Valley! im in oxford and Thames Valley said to me they will not allow HMR for fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigrifle Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 i used to have Greg, now have Richard as my FLO. Very missleading as you chose not to show us 1-5 which would show which rifle ie caliber is for which species this is in 1 if your not sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigrifle Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Notts total no no 17 HMR, 22 Rim Fire, Derbyshire total yes 17 HMR 22 Rim fire, fox is not covered under vermin never has been never will be this has been done to death on the BBS site and was tested in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBLATCH Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) none for durham we can only use the specified. 17hmr NO .22lr NO only the 223 and above allowed here. Edited March 17, 2011 by ROBLATCH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) im in oxford and Thames Valley said to me they will not allow HMR for fox Is your FAC worded "any other legal quarry"? Edited March 18, 2011 by Mr_Logic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Is your FAC worded "any other legal quarry"? Mine is, although I'm not entirely sure what it means. Can you shed any light on it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Yes. Means what it says - you may shoot anything you like so long as not rendered illegal by another law. So, vermin + any other legal quarry does include fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktattoo Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Lancashire & GMP are no for fox with hmr . Some people have fox with hmr with gmp however from what info I have is that when their certificates are updated or renewed then the condition will be removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Devon & Cornwall - the man He says (actually its a Lady) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Very missleading as you chose not to show us 1-5 which would show which rifle ie caliber is for which species this is in 1 if your not sure I take it you don't have a FAC then? As 1-5 are generic conditions which apply to all licenses.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Yes. Means what it says - you may shoot anything you like so long as not rendered illegal by another law. So, vermin + any other legal quarry does include fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Yes. Means what it says - you may shoot anything you like so long as not rendered illegal by another law. So, vermin + any other legal quarry does include fox. So following that assumption, I can use my .17HMR for wild boar. After all there is no law stipulating caliber for boar such as there is with deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Acpo guidelines say minimum .270 minimum but I see where you're coming from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 So following that assumption, I can use my .17HMR for wild boar. After all there is no law stipulating caliber for boar such as there is with deer. Technically yes you can. However, not sure the nice boar is going to show you too much mercy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 So following that assumption, I can use my .17HMR for wild boar. After all there is no law stipulating caliber for boar such as there is with deer. The Answer is Yes...but in all honesty would you, you would be pretty daft if you did Police regions each have their own agenda as we are all aware, in principle the condition...ALL LAWFUL QUARRY will feature on those peoples FAC who have reason and experience and normally Open, and therefore deemed to have some understanding of shooting. The condition is arguably a privilege and compliment, so I expect anyone who asks the question you have would probably not get the condition (or keep it long if they asked their FEO that question)! ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 The Answer is Yes...but in all honesty would you, you would be pretty daft if you did Police regions each have their own agenda as we are all aware, in principle the condition...ALL LAWFUL QUARRY will feature on those peoples FAC who have reason and experience and normally Open, and therefore deemed to have some understanding of shooting. The condition is arguably a privilege and compliment, so I expect anyone who asks the question you have would probably not get the condition (or keep it long if they asked their FEO that question)! ATB! Daft and legal are two different things. Various posters keep telling me/us that "any lawful quarry" means exactly that. Namely that if there is no legislation in place prohibiting the use of a caliber, such as the deer act, then the said wording on ones certificate means you can shoot anything with it. As far as I am aware there is no legislation in place covering calibers except for the deer act therefore if we are to believe this theory then I can use my .22lr and HMR to shoot boar. I do not believe such a condition to be a privilege and as for a compliment.....you must be joking, as the ACPO have recommended that this condition should become standard. I for one though do not believe this theory. I maintain that this condition only covers species lesser than the largest named species on ones fac. I intend to write to Adrian Whiting to get a definitive answer. because I for one do not wish to be placed in a compromising situation when my photo appears in Sporting Rifle showing the 1000lb pig I shot with my HMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 (edited) I take it you don't have a FAC then? As 1-5 are generic conditions which apply to all licenses.... er you've only posted 1 to 4? 5 is additional conditions which may be added to your license,mine is specific to what gun and what quarry,so its unfair to say he has no fac I often In fact always now, believe the whole saga of interpretation of "legal quarry"/ vermin is simply an attempt to read a license to suit in order that they feel justified in shooting fox with an HMR or 22 rimmie, KW Edited March 20, 2011 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 (edited) Daft and legal are two different things. Various posters keep telling me/us that "any lawful quarry" means exactly that. Namely that if there is no legislation in place prohibiting the use of a caliber, such as the deer act, then the said wording on ones certificate means you can shoot anything with it. As far as I am aware there is no legislation in place covering calibers except for the deer act therefore if we are to believe this theory then I can use my .22lr and HMR to shoot boar. I do not believe such a condition to be a privilege and as for a compliment.....you must be joking, as the ACPO have recommended that this condition should become standard. I for one though do not believe this theory. I maintain that this condition only covers species lesser than the largest named species on ones fac. I intend to write to Adrian Whiting to get a definitive answer. because I for one do not wish to be placed in a compromising situation when my photo appears in Sporting Rifle showing the 1000lb pig I shot with my HMR. The condition written on my FAC reads ...... ANY OTHER LAWFUL QUARRY, not lessor, that is a definitive answer. There is also a reason for losing your FAC, it comes under the all encompassing heading Not a suitable person, just what do you think your region would make of you if you decided to take the **** and make a habit of going out Boar hunting with your HMR? The condition puts responsibility at the feet of the shooter! Write to whoever you like, you will not get a definitive answer from them because my FAC reads any, this is the agreed wording, and until your man gets authority to write lessor on my FAC, it means ANY! And it isn't a Theory, I checked a year or two back with my Firearms Manager when this first appeared on mine, he confirmed it means ANY! Edited March 20, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Daft and legal are two different things. Various posters keep telling me/us that "any lawful quarry" means exactly that. Namely that if there is no legislation in place prohibiting the use of a caliber, such as the deer act, then the said wording on ones certificate means you can shoot anything with it. As far as I am aware there is no legislation in place covering calibers except for the deer act therefore if we are to believe this theory then I can use my .22lr and HMR to shoot boar. I do not believe such a condition to be a privilege and as for a compliment.....you must be joking, as the ACPO have recommended that this condition should become standard. I for one though do not believe this theory. I maintain that this condition only covers species lesser than the largest named species on ones fac. I intend to write to Adrian Whiting to get a definitive answer. because I for one do not wish to be placed in a compromising situation when my photo appears in Sporting Rifle showing the 1000lb pig I shot with my HMR. Charlie, Deker is right here. The condition carries with it the assumption that the shooter in question has a brain. Arian Whiting is hardly the right person for clarification on matters of law, I would suggest a senior judge would be a much better bet. The simple fact, please note, fact not theory, is that the law says you must obey the conditions on your FAC. Those conditions TEND to be the governing factor in deciding what you can use to shoot various species. In the absence of other legislation, the conditions on your ticket effectively form the letter of the law. If they say "any other legal quarry", then if it's legal, you can shoot it. End of, it's not negotiable - it's there in black and white. Unless of course we are going to debate the meaning of the word 'any'? Is there anything, anywhere on your ticket, which says, expressly or implied, that 'any' isn't actually 'any', but 'lesser'? unless you have a very strange ticket, the answer is No. Therefore, imagine, as prosecuting counsel, trying the argument "Charlie shot this boar with his HMR. This was illegal because his ticket says he could shoot any other legal quarry on it, but any doesn't mean any..." Not really going to work, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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