Having a bad time on the Foxes

[njc110381]

Hey guys. I'm at a real loss over the last week or so. I'm having a real run of bad luck on the Foxes and it's starting to get to me! I'm trying to get to the cause of it and although I know what I'm doing (at least I think I do!) it's not going right so I'm posting up a chance to pick holes in my shot placement etc. At the end of the day I want them to drop and they're not, so here goes....

 

A grid of a Fox...

 

 

Now, I'm sending rounds into them at the bottom middle to left of B2. They bowl over like they've been hit by lightening, thrash around for a second or two then take off! Are the vitals of a Fox really well forward or something? I've hit six on that spot in the last week and I've found two of them. Shots are at under 100 yards with either the .22 Hornet (45gr SP) or .222 (52gr A-Max). Four of them have been with the Hornet of which I have found one and two have been with the trip, also found one. Now I was beginning to think that it was a dodgy batch of bullets in my Hornet as it always used to work with 35gr V-Max when I hit them here, but then I had a runner with the trip last night. I know A-Max work a treat as I used to use them in my .223 with great results, so it must be me. I'm hearing the impact and it's hitting them hard. I just don't get it!

 

Both rifles shoot to under an inch at 100 yards and shots are taken off the bipod. I'm quite cofident that I'm hitting them where I'm aiming. Am I aiming at the wrong spot? :look: :(

[garyb]

B3 would be my choice, tucked in just behind his shoulder

[al4x]

two thoughts the sp's don't give you much room for error and the A max could be doing the same driven slower than .223 speeds. If you are putting them in B2, C2, B3, C3 as ideal locations you should be putting them down no problem. Swap to a vmax in the .222 and something similar with the hornet if you have to use it You possibly are a little far back but not too far back if you use a rapidly expanding bullet which you aren't

 

with 4 out of 6 not being found stop now and use the .243 till you've found some better bullets

Edited April 21, 2011 by al4x

[njc110381]

with 4 out of 6 not being found stop now and use the .243 till you've found some better bullets

 

I recon they're wearing flak jackets! I was thinking of using the .338!

 

Seriously though, the first night I thought I was just having a bad day, but now I've had a second night of it I'm really bothered and will stop using the Hornet. I don't like seeing runners and although I doubt they're making it far through the hedge it's still a poor show.

 

Did I mention I've put in a variation for .223?

Edited April 21, 2011 by njc110381

[Billy.]

B2 for me

[markbivvy]

just into c on the 2 and 3 line for me.

but not with a 45 grain hornet sp, i only use the 40 grn vmax or blitzkings.

Edited April 21, 2011 by markbivvy

[al4x]

I doubt it as well problem is that leaves foxes with bullet holes about, hopefully in the thickest hedge they could find

 

All I can think is lack of expansion if you are placing the bullets in the right place with them being SP's and A max its possible. Get some different bullets and go from there, I did see the .223 questions and just smirked a little you've got the best fox caliber going you're just not taking it out

[al4x]

B2 for me

 

 

you thats about the middle should give as much room for error with that dodgy rifle as possible

 

have you got it sorted?

[Bowen20]

I shoot in b2 but on the bottom right hand side of the square and most times if they are 100 yds of less I go for a head shot all my shots are mainly done at night under the lamp and range finders are used for around 90% of shots. Rifle is a Howa 1500 .223 using 55 grain pirvy partisan soft points all with a nice big fist sized exit except a couple that were facing me and there were no exit I've never had one run or even move they always drop on the spot even out to 200+ . I rekon it's the bullets your using cos from what I've heard the .222 is quite effective. And there is nothing more disappointing than a fox that's got away I hate it if I had one run or not drop on the spot I'd check my zero, my ammo and the fox that I shot where I hit it before I started shooting more cos it just ain't right letting it run/get away.

[Clamps]

Dare I mention :o are you actually hitting them there - have you checked your scope/range is zeroed correctly - not been bashed/dropped etc. just a thought.

[Billy.]

you thats about the middle should give as much room for error with that dodgy rifle as possible

 

have you got it sorted?

 

No. GB has offered his skills at attaching a scope, but has failed to deliver. It's sat in the cabinet collecting dust and hatred.

[njc110381]

Dare I mention :o are you actually hitting them there - have you checked your scope/range is zeroed correctly - not been bashed/dropped etc. just a thought.

 

The rifles go on a range day on the last weekend of every month to check all is well. They're always spot on. It's likely to be either bullet issues or operator error, or a mixture of the two it seems!

 

What I need to decide is when the .223 arrives, do I keep the Hornet? I really do like it but think I've picked a poor bullet for it. And Al4x, I know the .243 is the ultimate Fox gun - I just want the smaller rifles to work!

[Dekers]

****** any grid, you are simply not hitting them right, not many will run after a Hornet in the right place, and you have a bit of margin to!

 

Forget all this doings, it's YOU, you have had a run of bad luck/shots, it happens!

 

Go and check the zero, odds are you may well find it spot on, and the odds are after you check and get some reassurance/confidence back the next fox will fall down.

 

It happens, it happens to me, I don't know why, you can go a a few outings and everything falls apart and you begin to doubt yourself/tools/ammo/whatever, you need the proverbial kick up the **** and show yourself everything is ok...it usually works again then...certainly does for me......

 

If all else fails call Derren Brown!

[Bowen20]

Get the .223 and use that m8 get rid of the other 2 to fund the .223 I doubt you would need them all if your getting a .223 as well as the rest plus .243 and .223 would cover all bases with regards to fox and deer hornady are expensive in .223 if you don't reload your own so try some of the cheaper brands I like privy as I always BLAG on about them lol.

[WGD]

Are you seeing them run or just not finding them?

 

What kind of ground is it?

[activeviii]

 

 

It's not the 222 mate or the loading of them. if the wind drops tomorrow i will go and put a few more down it just to check, as you know, the 222 was played with on the range and then i tweaked 1/2" right two weeks ago. i will let you know tomorrow what i find.

 

the A-max dont lose very many arguments, im not telling you anything as i have seen what you can do and i can only dream on being able to group like i have seen you do. it could be something as simple as over analyzing but then what do i know

 

thinking about it, the over hedge fox, he just slumped on the spot and that was with the hornet.

 

 

I have e-mailed you a couple of photos of how well the a-max expand and i have a photo here of near on every fox i have hit in the last 3 years all with massive exit holes.

 

 

I will go and check the trip tomorrow as its bugging me two now.lol.

[njc110381]

Something has just entered my head, and I do feel like a total spanner for it, but with the number of Deer I shoot increasing I'm conscious of thinking that hitting the shoulder isn't good and that I need to hit just behind it....

 

ON A FOX?!?! What a ********!

 

Anyway, I'm buying a Box of V-Max on Saturday so I can zero them at the range on Monday.

[activeviii]

tin hat and flak jacked day then is it?

[Magus69]

Next one you shoot place the shot slightly higher and slightly further forward than you normaly would.A foxes profile appears much bigger than it actually is to convince yourself of this skin the lil bu gger and see for yourself or better still buy,beg,borrow, a book titled Foxing With Lamp And Rifle by R.Bucknell.

I would also definately ditch the A-Max bullets for something more appropriate.

Mike...

Edited April 21, 2011 by Magus69

[Alycidon]

Bottom line of 2 then straight through the centre of the chest so the line between C and D.

 

Dont worry about the back of the leg heart shot, we place deer bullets there to leave the front legs eatable, get a bit of drift and you are into an upper stomach hit, not good news. Just aim to put the bullet through the middle of the chest, drops them every time on the spot with a centerfire. Only once had a hit fox move ever, that was my fault as the rifle went off slightly before i intended and I hit him very low in the front chest, went 100 yards and piled up.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Alycidon

[salukiwhippet]

Straight through the shoulder for me, I had the exact same thing when I started shooting a lot of deer, trying to miss the shoulderblade on foxes too!

 

I used 45gn SP when I first had the hornet, they were pretty poo, 45gn HP weren't much better. 40gn NBT's are wicked, as are 35 vmax. I've also got some 30 grain berger HPs, theyre showing promise on the range but not shot a charlie with them yet.

 

James

[Frenchieboy]

I tend to try to put the shot in the lower part of B2 and using a .243 with 100g soft points they seem to go down like a sack of spuds, especially if the shot is more towards the shoulder and the bullet clips the shoulder bone on entry. Admitedly the shot can hit the shoulder bones and take the sting out of a smaller bullet but with a 243 there is enough power to still take the ribs out the other side and it is dead! However, as you are not using a .243 I would suggest that just behind the shoulder should do the job fairly well without too many problems, which is where I used to place the shot when I was using a .222! Although few people advocate it I will occasionally take a head shot but there have to be certain circumstances before I will consider it - The fox has to be very still and settled, it has to be completely broadside on to me, there has to be little or no wind, it has to be within about 80 yards of me and I have to be feeling confident, otherwise there is too much margin for error.

Just a thought but could it be that the bullets you are using are not expanding properly through not hitting any hard tissue and passing straight through the fox doing only minimal damage and not causing enough internal trauma?

[activeviii]

I knoq the A-max in the 222 exspand well. i have sent a photo of the one he hit the othernight. he asked me no to post it as it is rather bloody. if you wish to see the way an A-max exspands then ask him for a photo.haha.

 

im just off out now to check zero on the .222 but i hope NJC knows what was happening now. shot to far back is my bet.

 

Phil.

[kent]

now then it just aint that unusuall for a fox to run a bit then drop dead, hit in the heart or lungs they die from lack of oxegen to the brain (ok we all know that or should)however your shots are under 100 yds you state and we recently had conditions of a big bright moon. Nope i am not suggesting witchcraft, simply that the foxes were aware and full of adrenalin and ran further than normal because of it.

Knocking a fox over on the spot only proves you just busted its front legs or it went down sort of winded if you like (being unaware of your presence) but as it was dead within seconds as the blood suply to the brain stopped failed to get up again

All were shot with this placement? that amazes me as i shoot foxes from all sorts of angles and use simple knoledge of thier anatomy to place shots to the best advantage of a clean quick kill. I supose most are shot facing me as they are often comming in to the call

 

If its a balistic problem (which i doubt) its failure to expand, sometimes this happens when you slip one between the ribs on both sides the harder type bullets don't find lung tissue and a bit of fluid enough to induce fragmentation so the result is far less and slower bleed out. In exreame cases lung tissue can heal up from such a strike, its very rare and i have never personally witnessed it but have seen photos of such healing in the lungs of whitetail deer hit with broadheads and susequently baring the caraterisic cross scar left by the said arrow head. The chances with a firearm are going to be far less i suppose though.

 

Failure to expand is a BIG issue with the .243" using 100 grn deer bullets by the way, to such an extent that i now think twice about broadside on cavity shots when loaded with bullets like the tougher 100 grn prohunter. many times i have put them down with a good shot then they get up and run some before going all bandy legged and flopping in a big heap from bleed out (sometimes on examination of the wound you wonder how the heck they got up again or phyically managed that run but they do)

 

Don't fret, far better than another bigger gun is get a good dog (it will find them and put your mind at rest)

[Paul223]

for me b3 where the dark fur from the legs ends just to the left of where activeviii has marked for a side on shot, i agree with al4x more like a bullet issue, soft point can pass clean through with very little expansion, I've done it and had foxes run 20 or 30 yards into standing barley or wheat hedges or whatever, but I've also blown the side out of a fox and had it run ten yards with v max, so yes some times it does happen, more so with less expansion but i think you already knew all this and just wanted some reassurance eh!!