Chief Constable Says NO

[poacher boy]

Hi looking a bit of advice ? A friend had his application for a firearms licence for a shotgun turned down.

Yes he was arrested for a offence but it never went to court as there was not enough evidence (what police said) so my way off thinking is he has a clean record even his driving licence is points free any advice?

[CZ550Kevlar]

Hi looking a bit of advice ? A friend had his application for a firearms licence for a shotgun turned down.

Yes he was arrested for a offence but it never went to court as there was not enough evidence (what police said) so my way off thinking is he has a clean record even his driving licence is points free any advice?

 

As you said he was arrested which means he was cautioned, just because it didn`t goto court doesn`t mean alot, it still shows up on his record. He can appeal but head and brick wall springs to mind. You also don`t say what he was arrested for which is the telling factor.

[Cannon]

Hi looking a bit of advice ? A friend had his application for a firearms licence for a shotgun turned down.

Yes he was arrested for a offence but it never went to court as there was not enough evidence (what police said) so my way off thinking is he has a clean record even his driving licence is points free any advice?

What was he arrested for and how long ago?

[dadioles]

It may be that he accepted a "Police Caution" and most people think that is without major consequences and the end of the matter, rather like a strict telling off.

Unfortunately accepting a police caution is admitting guilt and will remain on record.

There is a train of thought that says that if the police are certain of a conviction, they will prosecute. If they are uncertain, they will issue a formal caution that you have to agree to and accept, they can tick it off as a solved case - you are guilty and recorded as such.

If you refuse to accept the caution charges may either be dropped due to insufficient evidence or you may win in court and keep a clean record.

BASC produced a handy document about this - do a search of their web site (www.basc.org.uk) for "police cautions" it is essential reading.

[webber]

POLICE CAUTIONS

Preface

This fact sheet refers to Adult Cautions which may only be awarded to persons aged 18 or

over. Verbal cautions i.e. verbal warnings are very different from Adult Cautions which

have to be agreed to and signed for by the suspect at a police station. Verbal cautions are

also given at time of arrest or before interview so the suspect knows their rights during

the process.

Introduction

Most people go about their lives with little or no contact with the police. But for people

who shoot for a living, sport or recreation, contact with the police is inevitable. To apply

for a firearm or shotgun licence you must deal with the police or their agents. But the

mere fact that you carry a firearm or shotgun is likely to bring you in contact with the

operational police.

Chief Officers of Police are under pressure to increase their detection rates, therefore

there is pressure on officers to detect more offences. There are several methods of

recording the detection of an offence, and one of these is a police Adult Caution.

A Caution – to put it simply - is an admission of guilt without the need for an appearance

in court, but make no bones about it, an Adult Caution is still an admission of guilt and

can carry the same weight as a conviction in court for 5 years after it was given. Cautions

may only be accepted/awarded to persons aged 18 or over.

It is BASC’s advice, that even if you believe that you may have committed an offence,

SEEK LEGAL ADVICE.

What to do in event of a caution!

A Caution will always be dealt with at a police station, sometimes this will be on the day

where an offence is alleged to have been committed or otherwise you are likely to be

called to a police station after an investigation has taken place, often when you have been

arrested and bailed for which a date to reappear at the police station is set. During any

arrest or attendance at a police station you are entitled to seek legal representation i.e. a

solicitor. The police, on your request, have to provide you with a duty solicitor before any

interviews take place; you have the right to consult a duty solicitor when you are offered

a Caution. If you do not accept a Caution the police may, depending upon the quality of

evidence, submit a file to the Crown prosecution Service (CPS) for consideration which will

either result in a court case or no further action being taken against you.

Below are some guidelines from Home Office Circular 30/2005 issued by the Office for

Criminal Justice Reform. These guidelines have been provided to the Crown prosecution

Service, the police and HM Courts Service. They will help you determine what the police

are allowed to do and should do when considering a compliant about an alleged offence

 

The Cautioning process

1. The Victim

Before an Adult Caution can be given, it is important for the police to try to establish:

• The views of the victim about the offence;

• The nature and extent of any harm or loss, and its significance, relative to the

victim’s circumstances;

• Whether the offender has made any form of reparation or paid compensation

(although this would not be appropriate in some cases, such as offences of

violence). Police officers should not become involved in negotiating or awarding

reparation or compensation.

2. The Suspect

Has the suspect made a clear and reliable admission of the offence (either

verbally or in writing)?

In order for there to be an adequate police record of an independent admission of the

offence, the details of the admission could be recorded by any of the following methods:

A tape recorded interview;

• A record of the admission in the police officer’s notebook and signed by the suspect

as an accurate record. This could cover any statement made by the suspect on

arrest, after being cautioned;

• A statement made by the suspect whilst in police detention (after being reminded

they are still under verbal caution*) could be recorded in the custody record and

signed by the suspect as an accurate record;

• A basic interview under verbal caution* could be conducted in the absence of the

suspect making a voluntary statement of admission, or for clarification where the

statement does not meet the required evidential standard. The notes should be fully

documented.

* A verbal caution is where police read you your rights before interview and does not

relate to Adult Cautions.

Has the suspect been made aware of the significance of an Adult Caution?

If an Adult Caution is being considered, then the full implications must be explained to the

suspect. Under no circumstances should suspects be pressed, or induced in any way to

admit offences in order to receive an Adult Caution as an alternative to being charged.

 

Has the suspect given informed consent to being cautioned?

If the suspect does not consent, then police may choose to continue with a prosecution.

Officers must avoid any suggestion that accepting an Adult Caution is an “easy option”.

Similarly, every effort must be made to avoid any suggestion of the suspect being coerced

into accepting an Adult Caution. They should be allowed to consider the matter, and if

need be, take independent advice.

The Consequences of receiving an Adult Caution

An Adult Caution is not a form of sentence (which only a court can impose), nor is it a

criminal conviction. It is, however an admission of guilt. An Adult Caution forms part of an

offender’s criminal record and may influence how they are dealt with, should they come to

the notice of the police again. Adult Cautions given for recordable offences are entered on

the Police National Computer, where they are held in line with Association of Chief Police

Officers (ACPO) Retention Guidelines for Nominal Records on the Police National Computer

2006.

The fact of the Adult Caution may also be cited in court in any subsequent court

proceedings and can be quoted on a Standard or Enhanced Disclosure issued by the

Criminal Records Bureau and thus can be made known to a prospective employer.

Fingerprints and other identification data can also be held on databases to which the

Police National Computer (PNC) has links. Therefore the significance of the admission of

guilt in agreeing to accept an Adult Caution must be fully and clearly explained to the

alleged offender.

Under the current ACPO Rules, Adult Cautions should be removed from the PNC after 5

years, provided there are no convictions on the record and no further Adult or Conditional

Cautions have been given. The Guidelines provide further explanation about the retention

of data if the subject has been convicted of other offences since an award of an Adult

Caution.

ENQUIRIES TO: Phone 01244-573010

E-mail: firearms@basc.org.uk

© BASC June 2009

Edited May 30, 2011 by webber

[tweedledee]

no means no. the police constable`s decision is final. i think you could appeal it but i`m not sure how much good it will do. ask him to join basc and ask for their help. they should be able to advise.

[monkeyboots]

i know of several people who have been told no and after they appealed it they recived there FAC what reason did they state on his refusal letter

[Dirty Harry]

Ignore cz550kevlars advice as he does not know what he is on about.

An arrest does not mean he recieved a caution. If he was cautioned he would know about it and would have been given some paperwork in custody.

If he was released without charge then he may have a chance.

 

Don't know unless you try.

[Imperfection]

As you said he was arrested which means he was cautioned, just because it didn`t goto court doesn`t mean alot, it still shows up on his record. He can appeal but head and brick wall springs to mind. You also don`t say what he was arrested for which is the telling factor.

 

eh? Being arrested dont actually mean the person has done anything wrong.Plenty of people are arrested,but later released or charges eventually dropped.A Police caution is given when the person is guilty of an offence and they dont want to tie up the magistrates courts.If all charges were dropped because of insufficent evidence then he shouldnt have a criminal record.

 

If your friend hasnt been cautioned then i suggest he demands an explanation why.Get BASC involved and reapply.

[Gnome of the Woods]

I just had my visit, I have a conviction in magistrates court 21 years ago and the FEO said in his opinion that I would be OK.

 

BUT there was a chance the Chief Constable could refuse my application.

 

If he does refuse it I will be in contact with BASC, as all the advice I was given said that there was nothing to stop it being granted.

[CZ550Kevlar]

Ignore cz550kevlars advice as he does not know what he is on about.

An arrest does not mean he recieved a caution. If he was cautioned he would know about it and would have been given some paperwork in custody.

If he was released without charge then he may have a chance.

 

Don't know unless you try.

The OP stated at the beginning his friend was arrested but it didn`t go to court yet he is refused a FAC, that is why i said that a police caution is the likely thing, this as we know is enough grounds for refusal, we still havn`t heard what the arrest is for and if he was cautioned these blanks havn`t been filled in either way.

My money is on police caution, but we shall see.

 

eh? Being arrested dont actually mean the person has done anything wrong.Plenty of people are arrested,but later released or charges eventually dropped.A Police caution is given when the person is guilty of an offence and they dont want to tie up the magistrates courts.If all charges were dropped because of insufficent evidence then he shouldnt have a criminal record.

 

If your friend hasnt been cautioned then i suggest he demands an explanation why.Get BASC involved and reapply.

 

If he accepted the caution then it wouldn`t have gone to court in the first place so the caution would stay.

[Dirty Harry]

The OP stated at the beginning his friend was arrested but it didn`t go to court yet he is refused a FAC, that is why i said that a police caution is the likely thing, this as we know is enough grounds for refusal, we still havn`t heard what the arrest is for and if he was cautioned these blanks havn`t been filled in either way.

My money is on police caution, but we shall see.

 

Talk about jumping to conclusions.

If you don't know why speculate? All you do is confuse matters and mislead people.

 

Harry

[CZ550Kevlar]

Talk about jumping to conclusions.

If you don't know why speculate? All you do is confuse matters and mislead people.

 

Harry

 

 

Ooooops forum police are here, must remember i am a robot and must not have an opinion on a FORUM!

[poacher boy]

i know of several people who have been told no and after they appealed it they recived there FAC what reason did they state on his refusal letter

 

 

Don't want to go into what he was arrested for but at the end off the day he wasn't prosecuted and he didn't go to court as the case was threw out through lack off evidence. The Chief constable refused on the grounds that he deemed my friend was not a fit person to be given a firearm licence.

Yes he was cautioned as i believe you have to be when being arrested or charged (not sure) but if the charge was dropped so must the caution (i think)

[Rushjob]

Two different cautions here - one is the caution on arrest, normal procedure that everyone gets, innocent or not.

 

The second one is a Police Caution which is where you accept fault / guilt for whatever the offence was & accept a caution in lieu of a Court appearance.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Rushjob

[Gnome of the Woods]

Tough to comment without knowing the facts!

His only real option is BASC as I see it, they should be able to tell him whether to appeal or not in the first place.

[Cannon]

Don't want to go into what he was arrested for but at the end off the day he wasn't prosecuted and he didn't go to court as the case was threw out through lack off evidence. The Chief constable refused on the grounds that he deemed my friend was not a fit person to be given a firearm licence.

Yes he was cautioned as i believe you have to be when being arrested or charged (not sure) but if the charge was dropped so must the caution (i think)

You're anonymous on these forums. Spill the beans. I reckon theres maybe something more other than a caution. Previous record maybe? How long after the caution did your friend apply for the certificate?

[artschool]

Don't want to go into what he was arrested for but at the end off the day he wasn't prosecuted and he didn't go to court as the case was threw out through lack off evidence. The Chief constable refused on the grounds that he deemed my friend was not a fit person to be given a firearm licence.

Yes he was cautioned as i believe you have to be when being arrested or charged (not sure) but if the charge was dropped so must the caution (i think)

 

Well it sounds like it's going to give you an idea. Maybe he is known to the police. Maybe he associates with criminals. Unless you give us more information all you will get is speculation.

[Dave-G]

It's quite possible to be considered an unfit person to hold firearms with no conviction or caution.

 

Two examples I can think of are that an applicant might have ACAB tattood on his knuckles or that a possible applicant looks like a swivle eyed ****. I guess a traveller might struggle too if he has no fixed abode or keeps the company of other travellers etc, or somone who is frequently in the vicinity of trouble.

 

TBH there must be umpteen scenarios that would make somone unsuitable. Insufficient evidence could mean that plod is confident he 'did it' but a witness would not go to court with it for example. Not suggesting this applies in this instance - just a possible scenario.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Dave-G

[tikka.223]

Hi looking a bit of advice ? A friend had his application for a firearms licence for a shotgun turned down.

Yes he was arrested for a offence but it never went to court as there was not enough evidence (what police said) so my way off thinking is he has a clean record even his driving licence is points free any advice?

 

Did he recieve notification of "refusal" or "with intent to refuse"?

[MJT]

It's quite possible to be considered an unfit person to hold firearms with no conviction or caution.

 

Two examples I can think of are that an applicant might have ACAB tattood on his knuckles or that a possible applicant looks like a swivle eyed ****. I guess a traveller might struggle too if he has no fixed abode or keeps the company of other travellers etc, or somone who is frequently in the vicinity of trouble.

 

TBH there must be umpteen scenarios that would make somone unsuitable. Insufficient evidence could mean that plod is confident he 'did it' but a witness would not go to court with it for example. Not suggesting this applies in this instance - just a possible scenario.

 

This is correct they dont need a conviction or a caution to refuse or revoke your licence

[Dirty Harry]

Ooooops forum police are here, must remember i am a robot and must not have an opinion on a FORUM!

 

Not the forum police, the real police. I have no problem with people expressing opinions but if you don't know what your on about leave it to people who do.

[Vince Green]

You are going to have to say what he was arrested and cautioned for because that has a massive effect on the decision. If it was for violence in any shape or form he is out on a limb. I don't imagine it was for anything else, but it could be, insecure address, even having the police called to his address in the past can do it. Other people in the house, it can all add up. I know one person who was refused for an old DD conviction and another who got a licence despite one.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Vince Green

[CZ550Kevlar]

Not the forum police, the real police. I have no problem with people expressing opinions but if you don't know what your on about leave it to people who do.

 

Whether you do or don`t know what you are on about you are still entitled to an opinion, just let people speak openly on the forum and express an opinion or do you like being one of those dictator policeman that give the rest of the force a bad name? You certainly aren`t an expert on everything police orientated yourself, how would you like being corrected and stifled and generally told don`t speak unless you are an expert??

[lurchers]

use are arguing amongst each other but the lad wont say why his mate has been refused it looks like something serious as if it wasnt he would say,*** so look a the obvious its his own stupid fault and take it from me i have a record from previous and i just say got mine and its from 22yrs ago.this is like the hunting life forum you arnt bothered unless you are arguing with each other.