Dr_Scholl Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Is there any chance of semi-auto 10/22's or shotguns getting banned from this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Is there any chance of semi-auto 10/22's or shotguns getting banned from this? There's always a 'chance' I suppose Dr.Scholl.Logic doesn't really play a part in firearms legislation over here.I doubt very much that anythng will be banned outright(but this is just my opinion)but crippling legislation could be introduced as a means of making firearms ownership even more restrictive. 'Back door' legislation will do for us eventually unless we get our act together,and I wont hold my breath waiting for that to happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Is there any chance of semi-auto 10/22's or shotguns getting banned from this? Anything is possible! :( ACPO has long wanted rid of anything semi-auto and this would be an idea opportunity for them. Remember michael ryan didn't even use a shotgun in his spree but they took the opportunity to bump anything above a 2+1 gun from S2 to S1. However if they follow Adrian Whitings proposals he suggested that all rimfire cartridge guns should be available in semi-auto! 17HMR semi bunny basher anyone?! :yp: IMO the main two things that came out of the HOSC discussions were having a single certificate system - which realistically is going to mean everything will be Section 1, its extremely unlikely that rifles etc will be bumped down to Section 2 controls but BASC should be applauded for trying to do so! - and tagged medical records. As the BMA is saying no chance to the tagging thing it only really leaves one option for the greasey politicians to be seen to 'do something about it' BUT given that the media and public aren't baying for 'blood' like they were after Dunblane, and GCN didn't take the opportunity to drum up support yesterday, maybe it will all just be quietly forgotten about in the shadow of the economic problems Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 They ain't coming back so there's no point getting uptight... Kerching ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Shotgun to FAC? I doubt they would bother because it won't help, the top 3 massacres in this country were all carried out by "legitimate" fully licensed FAC holders, not someone out of operation Trident..... legitimate fully licenced fac holders?? As opposed to a non fully licenced fac holder? You do know that derek bird had a sgc don't you? And have u read the home office recomendatuions for 1 licence? So put bluntly,a load of people on here COULD,be losing their shotguns......and frankly the operation trident thing gives me the impression that anyone who has an fac is hence in you're eyes 'rambo' ,this is a very small minded attitude and I am very surprised by you're comment.......I thought more of you,I was obviously very wrong about you're character..................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Boring now... <yawn> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Derek bird had sgc and FAC. Putting shotguns onto FAC wouldn't have stopped Cumbria. All of the massacres were carried out by police authorised FAC holders, hungerford, dunblane and Cumbria. The system is broke. Are we surprised non shooters don't give a monkeys about "shooters' rights?" This is why we must support large shooting organisations with resource and clout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 why would putting them on a FAC make people give shotguns back? Just mean people would apply for a FAC rather than SGC in a way it makes a lot of sense to have everything on one ticket. However with firearms depts being cut hard I can't see much changing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Boring now... <yawn> I reckon it started getting boring on about 31 May 2011 - 02:07 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Derek bird had sgc and FAC. Putting shotguns onto FAC wouldn't have stopped Cumbria. All of the massacres were carried out by police authorised FAC holders, hungerford, dunblane and Cumbria. The system is broke. Are we surprised non shooters don't give a monkeys about "shooters' rights?" This is why we must support large shooting organisations with resource and clout. Doesn't matter if it would have any effect or not, it is one of the top recommendations made by the enquiry as an overall 'improvement' and 'simplification' to the system. If the Gov't decide to act on that recommendation, SGCs will move to a FAC with all the polava that entails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) why would putting them on a FAC make people give shotguns back? Just mean people would apply for a FAC rather than SGC in a way it makes a lot of sense to have everything on one ticket. However with firearms depts being cut hard I can't see much changing Nope... If they rationalise the system based on the FAC model then shot gun owners will have to prove a 'legitimate need' for each and every one of thier guns.... I doubt even 50% of shot gun owners could do that for even one of thier guns let alone those with 5 or more in thier cabinets.. Also, a good number of current sgc holders will just get rid due to the extra hassle involved in obtaining AND MAINTAINING a FAC (this is important! having to prove regular use will be a pain in the bum to a lot of current shooters.) Edited June 3, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Unless they change the requirements for need with shotguns, after all I could justify a fair number and require no land if you added clay shooting, formal game, ducks, vermin for the semi auto etc etc regular use would be dead easy just go clay shooting occasionally. I think we would see a change to the current requirements and probably gain a few things as well, its already suggested we might loose the need for 1 for 1's on FAC guns and mods etc which would be a good step. Possibly allowing semi auto HMR's would be interesting and it wouldn't take much to tag shotguns on the end of the ticket with a certain number of slots depending on your need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Unless they change the requirements for need with shotguns, after all I could justify a fair number and require no land if you added clay shooting, formal game, ducks, vermin for the semi auto etc etc regular use would be dead easy just go clay shooting occasionally. I think we would see a change to the current requirements and probably gain a few things as well, its already suggested we might loose the need for 1 for 1's on FAC guns and mods etc which would be a good step. Possibly allowing semi auto HMR's would be interesting and it wouldn't take much to tag shotguns on the end of the ticket with a certain number of slots depending on your need I agree... it wouldn't affect me either... I have 1 shotgun which gets used for everything and showing weekly use wouldn't be an issue at all but I think it would for many. Yep... I'm strangly optimistic with regards to what we could potentially gain from a review of the system And on that note, I'm off to order a kydex tactical quick draw belt holster for the Glock 17 I've just put a deposit on in anticipation of the changes :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 why would putting them on a FAC make people give shotguns back? Just mean people would apply for a FAC rather than SGC in a way it makes a lot of sense to have everything on one ticket. However with firearms depts being cut hard I can't see much changing I guess that you dont really appreciate the freedoms of a SGC compared to a FAC do you ? I have my B525 up for sale at the moment - I can sell this to anyone that posesses a SGC- theres no messing about seeing if they have a free "slot" or waiting for them to get one approved. I can buy up to 9000 carts at a time should i wish. If I want to buy another gun or another 5 guns for that matter I can without having to go cap in hand to the feo for "slots" To be honest its unlikely that i would want to buy another 5 guns and i usually buy carts by the 500 but these are "rights" that we stand to loose if Shotguns get put on a FAC. Its still chipping away at our shooting rights as private individuals. I'll admit that it looks like as shooters we will receive less further sanctions in the fallout from Cumbria than we did in the wake of dunblane or hungerford but dont be gleeful about any sanctions we recieve just because they dont affect you much. "The this time it doesent affect me much" attitude will lead to our shooting rights being chipped away piece by piece. When your rifles are being made in drain covers, It will be because we didn't all stand together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 I guess that you dont really appreciate the freedoms of a SGC compared to a FAC do you ? "The this time it doesent affect me much" attitude will lead to our shooting rights being chipped away piece by piece. When your rifles are being made in drain covers, It will be because we didn't all stand together nope no appreciation of the difference having had both for rather a long time The whole point if you look at proposals are that there would be an element of give and take, the proposals include removing the need for 1 for 1's which would alleviate the first part of your concerns as well as removing a load of paperwork from the police and actually giving us more rights where buying and selling rifles are concerned. There are loads of ways the police would like to change the current system and some of them benefit us as well. There is no reason shotguns can't be on a FAC just with fewer restrictions just look at how FAC shotguns are listed to have an idea that cartridges aren't counted or added to your ticket. Yes it may need you to use guns you have but in the real world is that such a problem? Northern Ireland it seems to work fine really making it just one ticket you have to apply for may well mean more people get into rifle shooting as there should be fewer obstacles. There would be no land obligation for shotguns as clay shooting is a legitimate use so really I struggle to see why it would be so bad if its done in a way that combines FAC and SGC and keeps shotgun use and acquisition reasonably relaxed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricko Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Pointless discussion, it will never happen, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 nope no appreciation of the difference having had both for rather a long time The whole point if you look at proposals are that there would be an element of give and take, the proposals include removing the need for 1 for 1's which would alleviate the first part of your concerns as well as removing a load of paperwork from the police and actually giving us more rights where buying and selling rifles are concerned. There are loads of ways the police would like to change the current system and some of them benefit us as well. There is no reason shotguns can't be on a FAC just with fewer restrictions just look at how FAC shotguns are listed to have an idea that cartridges aren't counted or added to your ticket. Yes it may need you to use guns you have but in the real world is that such a problem? Northern Ireland it seems to work fine really making it just one ticket you have to apply for may well mean more people get into rifle shooting as there should be fewer obstacles. There would be no land obligation for shotguns as clay shooting is a legitimate use so really I struggle to see why it would be so bad if its done in a way that combines FAC and SGC and keeps shotgun use and acquisition reasonably relaxed I cannot ever in my lifetime see plod eliminating the one for one or slots on the fac, don't get me wrong,I wish they would,but then any fac holder can go out and buy a 50cal!!!!!come on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 a 1 for 1 would be caliber specific so if you have a .223 you could trade it in and buy another one same for mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 a 1 for 1 would be caliber specific so if you have a .223 you could trade it in and buy another one same for mods. that would be an improvement for sure. still take them forever I suspect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Surely if it was a matter of implementing a licensing system which was much more straight forward and simpler,then why not license the PERSON and not the GUN?If we're all deemed fit and responsible enough to be granted a FAC/SGC then what could be simpler.So and so is authorised to own centre-fire rifles and shotguns.You would still be obliged to inform licensing whenever you made a purchase;when and where the purchase was made,and what was purchased,just like you do now. So long as the land you had permission for was cleared for that calibre,what is the problem? Unless of course the Police and Governments agenda is firearms restriction,and not ease of implementation! What risk does the above pose to public safety?Isn't this what BASC proposed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) Surely if it was a matter of implementing a licensing system which was much more straight forward and simpler,then why not license the PERSON and not the GUN?If we're all deemed fit and responsible enough to be granted a FAC/SGC then what could be simpler.So and so is authorised to own centre-fire rifles and shotguns.You would still be obliged to inform licensing whenever you made a purchase;when and where the purchase was made,and what was purchased,just like you do now. So long as the land you had permission for was cleared for that calibre,what is the problem? Unless of course the Police and Governments agenda is firearms restriction,and not ease of implementation! What risk does the above pose to public safety?Isn't this what BASC proposed? Hugely open to abuse... there would be more than one rimmy shooter on here who would get all excited and go buy a .338 for popping bunnies... Even if they specified RF & CF seperately, most shooters would err towards the upper end of the range because.................... they could! I agree with the sentiment but I think the police would feel a little out of control and that the shooting community would all of a sudden be flooded with high power rifles. They could 'band' it using your idea though so someone could be licenced for rf or up to .223 then up to .308 etc... however if there was that level of freedom of choice, I guarantee someone given authority to posess up to .308 would go out and buy a .308... not a .243 Edited June 3, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Hugely open to abuse... there would be more than one rimmy shooter on here who would get all excited and go buy a .338 for popping bunnies... Even if they specified RF & CF seperately, most shooters would err towards the upper end of the range because.................... they could! I agree with the sentiment but I think the police would feel a little out of control and that the shooting community would all of a sudden be flooded with high power rifles. They could 'band' it using your idea though so someone could be licenced for rf or up to .223 then up to .308 etc... Not if the land/range wasn't covered for that calibre Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Not if the land/range wasn't covered for that calibre Mark but it is down to me to decide whether the land is suitable for the calibre.. as long as it is on my ticket and I have authority to shoot game with it then it's my decision as to whether it's safe or not. (I am aware that isn't always the case) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 but it is down to me to decide whether the land is suitable for the calibre.. as long as it is on my ticket and I have authority to shoot game with it then it's my decision as to whether it's safe or not. (I am aware that isn't always the case) I see what you mean. Still I know one thing that would stop people using a 338 for rabbits - the cost!! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 and for youre information anything under 61 cm is classed as section 5 ie banned ie a easily concealed pistol type weapon. back in the day,do me favour.............. And for your information a sawn off shotgun is a SAWN OFF SHOTGUN as defined in sec4(1) Firearms Act 1968. Not a 'pistol type' weapon. Only pump action and semi auto's are covered by sec5 if they have a barrel under 24" or are less than 40" overall. Yes, 'back in the day' I was taught to shoot handguns by a serving police 'shot' (didn't have specialist units in those days). I was also a member of two local clubs and shot on a regular basis. Now, what favour would you like me to do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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