had to sell hmr

[kent]

Stuck my first problem with lancs firearms today. After putting in my Variation to add a .22 Hornet for Fox and vermin use. Head of dept insisted i loose one of my rimfires as a one for one, discussed the matter with him over three phone calls, spoke twice to Matt at BASC but in the end i was faced with two options 1. give in to his request and loose a rimfire 2. Go to court. Not fancing option 2 though confident i could win (prooving my case for good reason) had to stand down. So luckily Bond + Bywaters in Preston agreed to hold my CZ Varmint HMR pending private sale through the shop FOC to me - A proper gun shop eh?

Now the last Lancs manager seemed to get banded about as the bad guy but never once did i have an issue with him or his dept in fact quite the reverse, however this new guy is himself on his way very shortly so lets see what we get next?

Issue was purely numbers with me, although i explained carefully and in detail my good reason for each gun and fully exepted my good reason for a second lighter calibre fox gun to go with the .243" he insisted on linking the rimfires and the Hornet together more closely despite three times the muzzle energy being produced in the hornet than a hmr and 6 or seven that of the .22. Even suggesting i could keep the HMR if i sold my .22, be aware guys the rules can and will be used against you if the opertunity arises for them to be to achieve sepparate goals . Anyway in all that extra cost to public purse we achieved a free 1 -4- 1 and they are sending back my cheque uncashed and an amended certificate for the hornet added.

Suppose my research into reduced power edible game loads for the Hornet might have to come to the forefront

Edited June 10, 2011 by kent

[apache]

Would the BASC go to court with you?

 

That is pathetic behaviour. I would write a letter to the chief constable.

[kent]

Would the BASC go to court with you?

 

That is pathetic behaviour. I would write a letter to the chief constable.

 

Yes, but Matt warned me of the chance of Revocation of my certificate pending the case (can't do that they are everyday tools for me ) To be fair i have had my issues with the Hummer being often too windy up here to contemplate its use here and poor terminals whilst using it on crows. What it is however or rather was to me, a very good longer range rabbiting / hare round on those still calm days when its hard to cross open ground without detection and use the .22. It was also a realy great shooter putting in far better than the norm groups out to 150 yds or more. Pity non of my mates wanted a gun of this calibre and my daughter is yet too young for an FAC at 11 yrs she has to stick to the air gun

[apache]

I am still amazed. I would seriously speak to BASC and write a letter to the chief constable send it recorded delivery.

 

I can't see they would have any grounds for revoking your certificate?

 

So daft.

[Dekers]

Have I got this right, you have a .22lr and a HMR and had to sell one before they allowed a Hornet?

 

What tools in total do/did you have on your FAC?

 

Cheers

[Frenchieboy]

I had "issues" with Lancs firearms when I put in for my .243 as a 1-4-1 against my .222! It seemed to me that they were adamant they did not want me to have a .243 even though I had ample "good reason" which could not be seriously questioned! The matter was only resolved when I got Ian Clark from the SACS to actually write and then speak to them in person. I suspected that my FEO was playing a hand in the matter along with the Issuing Officer, but that is only my beliefs which could be wrong so I will not say any more on that matter.

In general I believe that some FEOs and Issuing Officers believe that they are a law unto themselves and that their interpretations of the HO Guidelines are definitive and interpreted as such to suit what they want or do not want you to allow you to have. It sometimes takes a word from someone who knows like the BASC, SACS or similar to "point them in the right direction" and offer a less "bias" interpretation!

The one thing that I will say about Lancs Firearms Office is that the girls there are faultless, I can not praise them enough for their help, good manners and efficiency!

 

Edit: Just as a footnote, I had to speak to the Lancs Firearms Officer the other week and was told that they are hoping to get another FEO on their team soon to ease the workload - hopefully the new FEO will have a good (Or better) understanding and interpretation of the HO Guidelines and help to get some of these "issues" resolved a little quicker and in a more satisfactory manner!

Edited June 11, 2011 by Frenchieboy

[chrispti]

Could you not say you want the HMR as a dedicated night set up, fitted with a night vision scope

[Mr_Logic]

I think it is somewhat harsh to say that, and as for revocation of certificate - why? You are entitled to disagree. If not, let's just raise the swastika over Buck House and be done, frankly.

 

That said, I think he's actually done you a favour. Hornet is fine on rabbits. They end up about the same as HMR hits. Don't worry about reduced loads - waste of time I promise. Ultimately wit either calibre, headshot = edible rabbit.

 

If you had both, I don't expect that the HMR would ever be used. BUT it is still reasonable to have both as they do have differing energy levels, and your good reason for hornet is fox and rabbit for HMR. So a good example of police stupidity, and of their making the law as they go along, but not worth fighting for reasons already outlined.

[apache]

I am on a work computer so I don't have the home office guidance document to hand. How do I know people with 5 different calibre deer rifles? How come I have both a .22RF and a .17HMR for bunnies? Know a chap with two 22-250's. The guidance is clear - you can have as many rifles as you can securely store assuming you have good reason. It goes on to say 'need' doesn't come into it.

[Bazooka Joe]

Yes, but Matt warned me of the chance of Revocation of my certificate pending the case

 

Kent can you be more specific on this,

 

On what grounds did BASC have to warn you ? :blink:

 

Personally I cannot see any...!!!!!

[docholiday]

Afraid just another case where there is so much discrepancy between police forces, I am sure if there was a case where money was no object and best lawyers could be afforded they would wipe the floor with the police force, its a nightmare and should be standardised instead of leaving to people who often have little understanding of the use of these rifles or in many cases the actual law.

[12borejimbo]

I find my FEO is a pain in the butt!!! I wanted a .223 and he said no, even though I have 8 years .22 hornet and .308 experience with the keeper, he asked me to do my DSC level 1 next year and he might consider it. Ive now joined SACS, and they said they would be more than happy to back me up on this case a bit like Petes case (Frenchieboy). Im 23 years old and very responsible, so I know where you are coming from. I would take it further but they have already threatened you, seems a bit like bullying and using their "power" beyoned beleif, typical coppers.

[kent]

Let me get this clear the cops did not threaten revokation, however BASC warned it was not unheard of for various forces to do this prior to any battle in court. Yeah, i am sure i could win indeed the trend is for them to settle on the court steps but untimatly he was going to create problems for me - not bothered about his job as he is about to loose it anyway so stirring up with the boss wouldn't further my case in this instance. The daftest thing in all this is i already know if i re-apply when the new guy comes for a HMR to be added for long range rabbits i would probebly be granted it out of hand.

As in most of these internet forum FAC issues there is a bit more i am not saying, they have previously been making noises about quantity held and monitored alarms systems, so it could have got messy for me if we went toe to toe over the issue, he also listed all my rifles to me and actually forgot one as it was listed in the aquired section Just not worth being flagged as a problem

[highseas]

its all a bloody joke is what it is!!

 

why wont they just read the same hym sheet? i am so thankfull my foa (princess fiona) she has given me what i want wiht out much questioning. ime gona ask for a 300win mag next year thou and se how that goes lol

the police make it up as they go along,to suit as they want. you have a very good reason to have the .17hmr i would fight as much as i could

[Bewsher500]

write to the chief constable.

write to your MP

 

dont bend over and take it without at least a parting shot.

 

either that or move to a different constabulary. they are clearly *******!

[Frenchieboy]

Kent mate, without mentioning any names would I be right in asuming that this "chap" with the Lancashire office that said you would have to get rid of one of your rimfires is a somewhat overweight "Welshman"?

If so I know only too well what you are up against!

[kent]

Kent mate, without mentioning any names would I be right in asuming that this "chap" with the Lancashire office that said you would have to get rid of one of your rimfires is a somewhat overweight "Welshman"?

If so I know only too well what you are up against!

No i do know who you mean and he was always totally sound with me. Its the soon to be ex- Head of licencing, you know wouldn't it be funny if my wife applied for a HMR - i bet she would get it. Or if i reapplied when he was gone what realy bugs is its like me trying to argue with a tree surgeon he doesn't need three or four chainsaws, i know a bit about the subject and have two myself but the guy who does my climing here is infinatly more experianced so i should keep my trap shut in his case for fear of looking a fool. Is the world a safer place with my hummer being elsewere in lancs? what way is this public money well spent? he said "its not a wish list you know, we decide" when i pushed him ( i got a sort of knowing tone out of one of the girls who initially suggested i speak to the boss directly and explain)he tried to tell me the .22 and the hmr do the same thing (yeah but they clear the field in two different ways when lamping) As such he suggested keeping the HMR and loosing the .22, this is how much logic his argument made i seriously doubt he has even been out with someone in the field- yet like he said HE DESIDES, with a attitude like that am i suprised he is on his way

Be funny with them though and you will/could end up having to store your bolts at the nearest police stn and be limited to shooting monday afternoons during the period of a full moon

[kent]

Kent mate, without mentioning any names would I be right in asuming that this "chap" with the Lancashire office that said you would have to get rid of one of your rimfires is a somewhat overweight "Welshman"?

If so I know only too well what you are up against!

No i do know who you mean and he was always totally sound with me. Its the soon to be ex- Head of licencing, you know wouldn't it be funny if my wife applied for a HMR - i bet she would get it. Or if i reapplied when he was gone what realy bugs is its like me trying to argue with a tree surgeon he doesn't need three or four chainsaws, i know a bit about the subject and have two myself but the guy who does my climing here is infinatly more experianced so i should keep my trap shut in his case for fear of looking a fool. Is the world a safer place with my hummer being elsewere in lancs? what way is this public money well spent? he said "its not a wish list you know, we decide" when i pushed him ( i got a sort of knowing tone out of one of the girls who initially suggested i speak to the boss directly and explain)he tried to tell me the .22 and the hmr do the same thing (yeah but they clear the field in two different ways when lamping) As such he suggested keeping the HMR and loosing the .22, this is how much logic his argument made i seriously doubt he has even been out with someone in the field- yet like he said HE DESIDES, with a attitude like that am i suprised he is on his way

Be funny with them though and you will/could end up having to store your bolts at the nearest police stn and be limited to shooting monday afternoons during the period of a full moon

[cooter]

If I had an issue like you have I would put in a variation for a FAC air rifle, for working around barns and buildings, and see what comes back.

You can always do a 1-4-1 later and get another HMR if you wanted one.

[kent]

If I had an issue like you have I would put in a variation for a FAC air rifle, for working around barns and buildings, and see what comes back.

You can always do a 1-4-1 later and get another HMR if you wanted one.

I think as i already have one they might not grant me another, there main issue has no legal standing so they are using " you cant have good reason for so many Vermin rifles" But you see they don't understand the why's and were's of thier use. i don't get were your comming from on this sorry

[njc110381]

Sorry to hear you're having bother Kent. It's a right pain when they get a plan in their head and won't budge. They did it with my .375H&H and that still bugs me to this day!

 

On a brighter note I should add that I think once you have this Hornet up and working, you'll not be wanting the HMR anyway. Despite being very different on paper the two rounds are so similar to use in the field that you probably wouldn't bother much with the HMR.

 

In my experience I wouldn't down load the Hornet. Run it flat out with Lil-Gun and your pressures (and muzzle blast) will be very low. If you start slowing it down it will start to lose it's good trajectory and also bounce a lot more as the bullets don't fragment so well at slower speeds. I know there's been a lot of arguement on here recently about the .22lr (and I don't want to send this topic in that direction please chaps) but if you can keep your bullets flying fast and breaking up it will be better all round.

 

Keep your shots right up the front end and low on the bunnies, either head shots or front of boiler room, and all you will lose is the pluck or the head and perhaps the front lower leg.

 

I found 35gr V-Max probably the best all rounder for not giving too much damamge but still working ok. The bigger SP bullets don't open up well, the 33gr TNT is very explosive. I've read good things about Speer 40gr SP so they could be worth a try, although I never have.

[kent]

Sorry to hear you're having bother Kent. It's a right pain when they get a plan in their head and won't budge. They did it with my .375H&H and that still bugs me to this day!

 

On a brighter note I should add that I think once you have this Hornet up and working, you'll not be wanting the HMR anyway. Despite being very different on paper the two rounds are so similar to use in the field that you probably wouldn't bother much with the HMR.

 

In my experience I wouldn't down load the Hornet. Run it flat out with Lil-Gun and your pressures (and muzzle blast) will be very low. If you start slowing it down it will start to lose it's good trajectory and also bounce a lot more as the bullets don't fragment so well at slower speeds. I know there's been a lot of arguement on here recently about the .22lr (and I don't want to send this topic in that direction please chaps) but if you can keep your bullets flying fast and breaking up it will be better all round.

 

Keep your shots right up the front end and low on the bunnies, either head shots or front of boiler room, and all you will lose is the pluck or the head and perhaps the front lower leg.

 

I found 35gr V-Max probably the best all rounder for not giving too much damamge but still working ok. The bigger SP bullets don't open up well, the 33gr TNT is very explosive. I've read good things about Speer 40gr SP so they could be worth a try, although I never have.

 

Yeah, i have had my share of issues with the Hummer mainly wind and unpredictability on the terminals. it just bugs me that someone who is no more knoledge than a newby at best can talk rubbish and i have to take it on the chin and smile. I was actually thinking towards selling it after i had the Hornet fully sussed, contrary to what they seem to think i am not a collector. I don't use my grabbing spade much either but sometimes its just the best tool for the job

[al4x]

maybe you weren't showing enough usage across the different rim fires you have to justify keeping both?

[kyska]

maybe you weren't showing enough usage across the different rim fires you have to justify keeping both?

 

This worries me somewhat, my rifles only really get used at certin times of the year, as the farm is now almost all arable they don't get used until after harvest.

[al4x]

it would be more than not used during the year more if you show little use between renewals but at least over a couple of years. Its easy to leave one in the cabinet and not use it much which a lot of people do with their .22's when they get an HMR. Its not usually an issue but if they think you are just building up a collection rather than using them it can come into play.