Pigeon love Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) I have read several times in the newspapers and shooting mags, that rural crime is on the increase across the country, and although it has most definatley always been there, it appears to be on the increase due to the recession etc... I shall give a example from my own experiences. Last Sept'10 I was sat quiet happily in a small copse near to the edges of the my permission. When out of the corner of my eye I saw some movement, coming from the large wood across the stubble field was two lurcher style dogs. It's not unusal for dogs to stray from the public path which runs through the woods, and I was expecting a whistle or call to bring them back. I watched them for a few minutes, and then heard the whitsle and someone shout. I saw the dogs look back towards the woods, then change direction and actively start to scan the ground. It became very clear straight away that the dogs had delibratly been put out into the field to look for hares or other game. I sat for a moment I thought, mmmm... what do I do here... the dogs were coming my way, I assumed at that any moment the person's controling them would leave the wood and follow. So there I am sat full camoed up, with a air rifle, miles from nowwhere, and the cloest other person being the farm hand 4 fields away. Luckly on this occasion I had my phone, so decided to call the local bobby, who I have a fairly good repor with. Luckly he was on duty, and said he wasnt to far away, so would pop over. Well, 15 mins went by, and no sign of bobby, and with dogs still out in the fields, I thought I should do something. Rather than risk getting into a a confrontation, I decide to leave the copse and walk up the hedgerow, purly to show movement to who ever was in the woods. This seemed to work and there was a quick shout, and the dogs ran back to the woods. A few minutes later I got a call from the Bobby and he thanked me for the call and that they had stopped two blokes with the dogs the other side of the woods, and that on this occasion details were taken for intel purposes. Anyone else got similar stories or tips on how to deter rural crime? (Sorry title should read "how do you deter rural crime", got distracted) :lol: Edited August 19, 2011 by Pigeon love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted August 19, 2011 Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 I lile to think i'd walk over have a few stern words and send them on there way before handing their details to landowners. But tbh, if something similar happened, i'd probably back away, call the landowner/cops and observe until it was sorted. I love shooting and would hate to lose my licence, and the way some people talk, any kind of confrontation could have the potential to lose you your licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 I suspect that "confrontations" like this are maybe more common than people think. If I am carrying a gun I will try to avoid a confrontation at all costs, especially if I am on my own and there are more than one other person involved as they only have to say that you threatened them and you can say Bye Bye to your FAC or SGC straight away. I usually carry a small pocket camcorder with me and will film activity such as that described and then contact the farmer or police to let them deal with it. I did have one situation a couple of years ago that could easily have turned sour. I had just parked up near one of my permissions when a White Astra van pulled up with 3 blokes and a couple of dogs in it. (From the way they spoke I was sure that they were pkieys) I was about to put my combat coat on when one of the chaps wound the window down and asked if I knew of any badgers or foxes in the area. I straight away said that the farmers would not allow dogs running on the land and that working badgers with dogs was illegal. They started to get a bit mouthy and it was looking like I was going to have a bit of trouble on my hands but fortunately the farmer's son was approaching on the tractor and they decided to drive away. If he had not been coming along I have no doubt that I would have had big trouble on my hands so now I do my utmost to avoid any confrontations and just make a note of the vehicle registration or get some video footage to pass on while I keep myself out of the way - I would rather stay a safe and let the right people deal with things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 The increases in "rural crime" referred to by the Police concerns theft and vandalism/fly tipping, rather than poaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 The increases in "rural crime" referred to by the Police concerns theft and vandalism/fly tipping, rather than poaching. Fly tipping is the 21st century growth "industry". Can't answer for the rest of the country, but with the increase in recycling and all the associated locally applied "rules", it's on the increase down here. (It took a major campaign to get the local council to realise that old folk cannot "carry" all their rubbish in wheelie bins through their house together with the waste food and the general recycling boxes to the front door and on to the kerbside because the waste contractors employed by said council bought lorries that would not now get down the service (back) lane.). The recycling centre is now charging to accept rubble (any, not just commercial) so before long we'll need a tank not a truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry flashman Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 friend of mine was having probelms with fly tipping. He found an envelope with an address on it. It was a ***** settlement. Try not to be prejudiced but have heard too many stories to be able think anything other than much of it is driven by the lack of policing / deterrant of a group of people who will (mostly) do anything they please if they can get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 friend of mine was having probelms with fly tipping. He found an envelope with an address on it. It was a ***** settlement. Try not to be prejudiced but have heard too many stories to be able think anything other than much of it is driven by the lack of policing / deterrant of a group of people who will (mostly) do anything they please if they can get away with it. Exactly. You mention a group but the fact is that in addition to that element and although in its infancy, it is becoming a national trend as recent inner city events have shown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon love Posted August 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 The increases in "rural crime" referred to by the Police concerns theft and vandalism/fly tipping, rather than poaching. I totally agree, Fly tipping is a real problem round by us, especially being on the out skirts of a large town, and with the prices of metal being sky high, field gates are not safe . But there is apparently a huge black market for vension, which is showing a increase in deer poaching. I am led to believe that the individuals mainly involved in this kind of activity, are usually well organised and part of gangs who travel the country targeting areas that are deemed soft. They treat the poaching as their sport, and will use the activity as a way to recon property or land easy to target for other crimes such as thefts etc... Its good to hear that some of you as responsiable rural sport enthauists do take the time to try and help the land owenrs, by calling the Police or taking vehicle regs etc.. it certainly helps in detering a certain section of society doing what they like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 The increases in "rural crime" referred to by the Police concerns theft and vandalism/fly tipping, rather than poaching. I caught a flytipper few years back while dog walking in a disused quarry so i photographed him emptying his van of rubbish complete with registration,face etc-then sent it all to the council.I absolutely detest flytipping,but sadly its rife round here and especially at this old quarry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 My bosses van is normally parked on the access to my permission (also happens to be where the workshops are) and he has been nick named 'Chief *****' and drives the '***** wagon' (ford transit flat bed) so most of the real ones think the space is already taken! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 I am led to believe that the individuals mainly involved in this kind of activity, are usually well organised and part of gangs who travel the country targeting areas that are deemed soft. They treat the poaching as their sport, and will use the activity as a way to recon property or land easy to target for other crimes such as thefts etc... Is that what the police told you? They like to big it up to pretend they are hitting serious crime instead of just someone wanting to test their dog on a hare. Someone doing something that has been practised for hundreds of years is different to someone nicking diesal or farming equipment, they are called thiefs. Taking game from land is poaching not thieft, as you cannot own wildlife. If they paint all fieldsport followers as criminals they will not be able to bring a repeal. Wait for them to bring in legislation on the use of Airguns... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 I dont know whether my experience is typical but it should be. Our local wildlife crime officer is a proper policeman and knows that crimes against shoots are the tip of the iceberg of rural crime. He sends us crime notification, vehicles to look out for or warnings of criminal activity, including poaching. We, in turn, look out for anything suspicious, any suspect vehicles etc. If poaching is not a crime then why is he called a wildlife CRIME officer. Poachers are criminal scum. If you think they are warm and cuddly where you are -thats good for you, if they come to my bit of Cheshire, I will do everything I can to get them 'brought to book'. Most poachers round our way are either petty criminals or small time drug-dealers - people to whom earning a living is a frightening concept. Every poacher known to the police is known also in some other way. I notified the police of two long-dog men checking out the maize stubble fields on the shoot (we had a few hares), both were known petty criminal from the local town. Hares are now routinely shot. It is not worth holding any residual romantic notions of the dedicated family man hunting to feed his hungry family - they are criminals and taking reared pheasants from a pen is theft, pure and simple and treated as such by our bobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthedark Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Is that what the police told you? They like to big it up to pretend they are hitting serious crime instead of just someone wanting to test their dog on a hare. Someone doing something that has been practised for hundreds of years is different to someone nicking diesal or farming equipment, they are called thiefs. Taking game from land is poaching not thieft, as you cannot own wildlife. If they paint all fieldsport followers as criminals they will not be able to bring a repeal. Wait for them to bring in legislation on the use of Airguns... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Agree with inthedark on this Richie,poaching is poaching, no grey area. I will come and shoot your back garden oe let my dogs run in it if you want, because that is what we are talking about. I found a website called THL.. it's full of poaching stories. We have a double problem on my permissions, in that we have a regular "dog man" in a subaru that trashes hedges and gates and also playes havoc with the animals, we have passed video proof onto the police but avoid getting involved directly for the reasons mentioned above plus, a barn will most likely get torched or a machine vandalised. The other problem is that one of the family members whom i ahve known since i was 8, had a nice house atteh end of a "green lane". Every other council is closing them to everyone apart from cylists, walkers and horse riders. Our local one decides to open this one up as a "BOAT" which means anything can drive down it. The cynical side of me says they did this just to hack my mate off but what it has done is allow every scrote to fly tip and exchange drugs and all sorts down there as the middle cannot be seen from either end. We use it as access to that part of the land and we have suprised a number of ner'do wells there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Yep, the old man that runs his dog on a hare because he has been doing since before the ban is the tip of the ice berg of major crime wave of drug dealing. You would find that if the ban wasn't here many kids who otherwise bored would get into the fieldsports, instead of drugs and petty crime. Shooting is not a cheap sport for a child who hasn't the backing of family, having a dog or ferrets gives them responsibility all year round and a pastime. The more this is clamped down on the more that people turn to alternatives. You guys need to open your minds a bit, think about the bigger picture than just information you have been fed. It's easy to stop people fly tipping and driving the fields and the biggest affect on wildlife is the farmer spraying crops not people running a couple of dogs over a field. It appears that many on here don't have the background of rural sports, they buy a gun for something to do. Poaching isn't a new thing that you guys have just discovered it's been going on since the time the land of the common people was turned over to lords of the manors that imposed these rules on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Taking game from land is poaching not thieft You're right, it's not thieft...but it most certainly is theft! tell these romantic stories of poaching to someone who has paid several thousand to join a syndicate and is out stalking and has a stalk ruined by some idiot numpty with 2 bloody dogs! or as some syndicates allow members to control vermin etc - has this ruined again by some poacher. if you cannot get your sport legally ...then don't do it! Regards, Gixer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 he's a dog man gixer they don't see anything wrong in running their dawgs on anyone elses ground. Fortuantely lots of forces know if they pick them up usually the vehicles are iffy and they usually pick up wanted persons at the same time. Simply round us its done by scum hence they are interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 You're right, it's not thieft...but it most certainly is theft! tell these romantic stories of poaching to someone who has paid several thousand to join a syndicate and is out stalking and has a stalk ruined by some idiot numpty with 2 bloody dogs! or as some syndicates allow members to control vermin etc - has this ruined again by some poacher. if you cannot get your sport legally ...then don't do it! Regards, Gixer Its not theft look it up, you cannot own wildlife, if it is killed it is on the land, it is then the landowners property. So do you get angry if they stalk is ruined by weather, because of the change in wind? If you think a little disturbance ruined your stalk then you need to look at your stalking. I had a ruined stalk because the guy I was stalking with had a preference for shooting foxes than deer, should I complained really....no idea why you would pay to shoot foxes... Paying thousands of pounds to control someones problem, it's just that now people participating in shooting is dependant on the wallet. Lucky i can afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 he's a dog man gixer they don't see anything wrong in running their dawgs on anyone elses ground. Fortuantely lots of forces know if they pick them up usually the vehicles are iffy and they usually pick up wanted persons at the same time. Simply round us its done by scum hence they are interested As i said before, get me on a day at your shoot and i will come up. You can see my transport, check a wanted list and my guns and licence. There is no dirt on me. All because i don't want to jump on your generalisations about people and the underclass that live under shooting people. I have stood next all different levels of society on the coursing days more so than on shooting days but its fashionable to poke the hunting supporters by the Shooters. I may not do it anymore but I can't sit back and hear the usually stereotypical rubbish from the same old people. Think about it, who had more commitment to rural sports shooting or hunting? You don't have to feed a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 You're on drugs mate....weather doesn't ruin a stalk, tits with dogs who feel they can go where they want do. And as for what people pay for - who the he'll are you to decide what people pay for? I don't thing designer vaginas are a great investment but at the end of the day it's thier money! And as you say, it's the land owners property, not some halfwit ***** or poacher! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 Sorry Richie but although I have some sympathy for your position I think you are sticking your neck out a bit. You, like so many of us, are the victim of the unreasonable and illegal activities of others. Tough. Look at the way pistol shooters had their sport snatched away from them, dreadfully unfair but that's life, and sometimes it sucks. It sounds to me that you are behaving illegally and if you get clobbered you know perfectly well what you were doing and may suffer the consequences. Round here (South Cambridgeshire) we are plagued by ******, effectively under seige. Even if it is bolted down it gets nicked. Using dogs against hares is rife and the people doing it are, from personal experience, vicious thugs, generally from outside the area, more often than not up from Essex, and betting big sums of money. Farmers, Industrial Units, Shopkeepers and ordinary householders round here are forking out big bucks on gates and fences to try and protect what they have worked hard for. Not good. So.... you are looking for sympathy eh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 I don't do anything illegal. What people are paying out for to protect property is the same as any other person does to protect their interests, it has never changed. I pay for my property to be safe. What you are saying is that everyone that coursers hares is also someone who nicks things. Which is like saying everyone who owns a gun is a potential murderer which the public in general think. I don't see how the guys running a hare means that they will nick your granny. People who steal aren't the same as people who like country pursuits, like the people who like guns are also the people that decide to murder their own family. Look at the news reports you can draw the same solution. I have been shooting from the age of 12 and have recently got back into it but it seems that alot of people in the sport these days have no back ground of the other pursuits. It used to be that people did a bit of everything, shooting, fishing, ferreting, dog work, digging, following the hounds. These days there is a separation, you are either a Shooter or a Dogman, no middle ground, brought about the newbies who consider dog work cruel because they have drawn conclusions from LACS and listen to people talking about being 'humane' and 'pest control' and not in it for the enjoyment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 I don't think that working dogs is cruel. What I do think though is that running dogs on land you don't have permission to be on is more than a little bit rude. Why is it ok for you to take your dog out and have it run around someone elses land? It's not is it? How would you like it if I was working outside your house so just walked in uninvited to make myself a cuppa because I fancied it? It's the same thing - bloody rude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 I don't think that working dogs is cruel. What I do think though is that running dogs on land you don't have permission to be on is more than a little bit rude. Why is it ok for you to take your dog out and have it run around someone elses land? It's not is it? How would you like it if I was working outside your house so just walked in uninvited to make myself a cuppa because I fancied it? It's the same thing - bloody rude! exactly and the reason most are unsavory characters that do it is that its an activity reserved for a special kind of person poaching. The type that had permission and ran their dogs legitimately are totally different to the ones that couldn't give a toss about boundaries and run them on hares or deer on land they have no right to be on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Here on the fens is the coursing capital of britain we have had no end of drives ruind by ****** after the hares they just dont give a **** scumbags the lot of them i dont care what they are doing as long as its not on our land :no: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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