gazzthompson Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16697637 Thoughts ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Legalise it all tax it job done, prohibition hasn't worked, we still pay to pick up the pieces chase and lock up the dealers etc etc to what benefit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilly Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I tend to agree that legal drugs would be better than Illegal ones, at least there could be a quality assurance and also a tax benefit to the country. I don't condone drug use but I do feel that some drugs pose less of a threat to our way of life than alcohol and are less harmful to health than smoking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I think Beardie is talking out of his ****! He doesn't have to live amongst the lawless zombies who will do anything for a fix. Neither is his Father or Mother likely to have to share a hospital ward with young junkies who are hospitalised due to self inflicted, drugs related illnesses, and all the scum they attract to the ward. He is'nt paying for the ongoing, never ending treatment that they pretend to partcipate in to avoid prison. These people are a drain on society. The way to solve the drug problem is to increase the deterrent and make sure that drugs are not available in prisons. Then they can get all the help and treatment they need - inside prison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr W Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Because obviously the deterrent method is working so well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricko Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 There was a discussion on the radio about this yesterday, 5 Live I think. It used Portugal as an example where they treat drug addiction as an illness and not a crime. The state supplies the drug and the addict is given assistance to come off the drug. I personally think that society has started to rot from within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 It seems to me that most drug related problems for society relate to the criminal activities of addicts trying to get enough money to buy them. If you put the drugs on prescription for registered addicts they wouldn't have to burgle your house or mug your granny to afford them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Send them all to prison ? So we can spend more millions in taxes supporting them? And you speak of "lawless zombies" and "young junkies who are hospitalised" , want to reduce this? Legalize. As it said: This would be a "win-win all round", he added, citing the example of Portugal, where no drug user had been sent to prison for 10 years. Sir Richard said this had cut the level of people taking heroin by 50% and allowed a greater focus on catching the criminals supplying substances. He also said that greater regulation of the drugs trade would mean young people have a better idea of what they are taking, cutting deaths. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9031855/Its-time-to-end-the-failed-war-on-drugs.html In Portugal, decriminalisation for users of all drugs 10 years ago led to a significant reduction in heroin use and decreased levels of property crime, HIV infection and violence. . Replacing incarceration with therapy also helped create safer communities and saved the country money – since prison is far more expensive than treatment Treat these people!! sticking them in prison is a lose lose situation, costs us millions and fixes nothing. Edited January 25, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Send them all to prison ? So we can spend more millions in taxes supporting them? And you speak of "lawless zombies" and "young junkies who are hospitalised" , want to reduce this? Legalize. As it said: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9031855/Its-time-to-end-the-failed-war-on-drugs.html Treat these people!! sticking them in prison is a lose lose situation, costs us millions and fixes nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 What exactly is stupid about what i said? its been seen to work unlike our current system which fails massively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I think Beardie is talking out of his ****! He doesn't have to live amongst the lawless zombies who will do anything for a fix. Neither is his Father or Mother likely to have to share a hospital ward with young junkies who are hospitalised due to self inflicted, drugs related illnesses, and all the scum they attract to the ward. He is'nt paying for the ongoing, never ending treatment that they pretend to partcipate in to avoid prison. These people are a drain on society. The way to solve the drug problem is to increase the deterrent and make sure that drugs are not available in prisons. Then they can get all the help and treatment they need - inside prison. Yer ok mate we'll just lock everybody up who's ever done drugs shall we ? ... You ever drunk alcohol mate ? That's a drug that has a mind altering effect... ever taking paracetamol for a headache ? That's a drug which has a pain relieving effect on your body. Every drug is for a different thing... just because some people abuse heroine and cocaine makes them a criminal ? but someone who abuses alcohol is fine ? ... you can also get addicted by medicines prescribed to you... codeine ... anti - depressants , all sorts. CERTAIN Drugs have been used to hundreds if not thousands of years as treatment for things... Richard Branson is a known Cannabis Smoker, yet one of the most successful men in the country... do you think he deserves to be locked up in prison ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 The deterrent method isn't working because there is no deterrent. Any offenders coming into the system with drug related issues is put on drug rehabilitation programs - basically anything to keep them out of prison. They are a joke and the system is played by the addicts. They turn up late or not at all and nothing is done about it. They are put on expensive drug substitutes only to come off and go back on drugs thus starting the whole costly cycle time and time again. We don't imprison drug addicts any more. The cost of keeping these addicts inside prison should cost no more than the cost of their benefits (including all the Mobility cars and sickness enhancements), drug counsellors, drugs testing procedures AND we wouldn't have them on our street, in our hospitals and all the other places where decent people now fear to go. It also means that their crimes are reduced significantly. Get Beardy a council flat on a typical estate and see whether he still thinks they aren't criminals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Yer ok mate we'll just lock everybody up who's ever done drugs shall we ? ... You ever drunk alcohol mate ? That's a drug that has a mind altering effect... ever taking paracetamol for a headache ? That's a drug which has a pain relieving effect on your body. Every drug is for a different thing... just because some people abuse heroine and cocaine makes them a criminal ? but someone who abuses alcohol is fine ? ... you can also get addicted by medicines prescribed to you... codeine ... anti - depressants , all sorts. CERTAIN Drugs have been used to hundreds if not thousands of years as treatment for things... Richard Branson is a known Cannabis Smoker, yet one of the most successful men in the country... do you think he deserves to be locked up in prison ? I thnk you are missing one vital element. There are legal drugs and illegal drugs. The government makes the call. And, Branson may be successful, but look at the help he gets. Northern Rock springs to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr W Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 But the point is that the Govt makes the call whether legal or not, so if they made them all legal are you saying you wouldn't have a problem? I think he has a point, let the healthcare system treat the addicts and the police and judical system work on catching the suppliers. A lot of the time it's a fad that kids do and most stop and go onto lead productive lives (pretty sure quite a few on here have dabbled in something at some point) what is the point in giving them a criminal record and ruining their careers for popping a few pills etc. As has been said those that commit crimes to get high need help to get off and if they don't supplying them with free drugs would at least stop the crimes, until they get clean they're never going to be a useful member of society, let them get on with it without needing to commit crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee-kinsman Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Legalise it all tax it job done, prohibition hasn't worked, we still pay to pick up the pieces chase and lock up the dealers etc etc to what benefit? What about the cost to the NHS? Now I'm not against having a drink or the occasional cigar but the amount of money that **** heads and smokers cost the NHS every year is criminal. Legalise drugs and your asking for harsher taxes due to the pressure that addicts and drugs users will put on the Health Service. The answer to the drug problem in my opinion is education and harsher penalties for the criminal drug runners, a real deterant. Legalising drugs won't solve any problems, do you think that a heroin/cocaine/crack addict becomes a thief as soon as he/she starts using. No they start thieving as soon as they can't pay for the habit anymore. Addicts will just become thieves, burgulars and muggers to buy something that is legal. Therefore not solving crime. And with regard to prison, yes send criminals to prison but have them work and pay rent rather than playing x-box, pumping iron and recieving private health care and dental treatment. Change the system to be profitable to the country rather than very costly. ATB, Lee Edited January 25, 2012 by lee-kinsman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haytime Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 There will be no change in the UK drugs laws, that is a simple fact. Cannabis, for example has been illegal in Britain since 1928, the Misuse of Drugs Act in 1971 bought in the classification system and sentencing guidelines. It was only downgraded so to speak for a B to a class c for four years, then it changed again.(2004-2008) One of the stalling points is because of research linking heavy use of the drug with schizophrenia and other mental illnesses That is a hugh block to get over. Alcohol is more harmful in my mind than cannabis for example (my own view), but I understand a lot of familys lives have been devistated by what we could call soft drugs. Are the government going to take the chance ?, no, I think not :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) What about the cost to the NHS? Now I'm not against having a drink or the occasional cigar but the amount of money that **** heads and smokers cost the NHS every year is criminal. Legalise drugs and your asking for harsher taxes due to the pressure that addicts and drugs users will put on the Health Service. The answer to the drug problem in my opinion is education and harsher penalties for the criminal drug runners, a real deterant. Legalising drugs won't solve any problems, do you think that a heroin/cocaine/crack addict becomes a thief as soon as he/she starts using. No they start thieving as soon as they can't pay for the habit anymore. Addicts will just become thieves, burgulars and muggers to buy something that is legal. Therefore not solving crime. ATB, Lee As shown with the case of Portugal, legalization/decrimilization DECREASES use. The tax you would get from the purchasing would cover the NHS costs, and then some! it DOES help crime, what are you basing your opinion on? Read: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9031855/Its-time-to-end-the-failed-war-on-drugs.html In Portugal, decriminalisation for users of all drugs 10 years ago led to a significant reduction in heroin use and decreased levels of property crime, HIV infection and violence. Replacing incarceration with therapy also helped create safer communities and saved the country money – since prison is far more expensive than treatment. We have an observable example here, REDUCING usage (and thus NHS cost) REDUCING crime . We can all agree we need to reduce usage and related crime yes? The ONLY observable success of this is via decriminalisation . Thats the main thing for me. Currently we have failed, we can "risk" it and make it 'harder' or 'harsher' or we can try a proven and tested method ? Edited January 25, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 The only reason the government are considering this is the revenue they can derive from drugs sales. If you think its wrong for people to get criminal record for committing crime then society really is breaking down. They already get leeway with non disclosable cautions for small amounts of class B as do first time offenders such as thieves and for public order. So we can't deal with the drug problem - let's legalise it. Well, we can't seem to deal with terrorism either, or paedophilia for that matter. Shall we legalise them too and save a lot more of police time? The whole libro-social meddling with criminals is there in front of our eyes for all to see. I've been dealing with these wasters for too many years and next time you moan about a copper not turning up to investigate a burglary, its probabally because half the shift is dealing with smackheads in A&E or those causing carnage on the High Street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR1960 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Making it illegal immediately increases the appeal to the sort of people who later become drug dependant. Would removing that make a positive impact? I don't know, but I do know the present system isn't working. It'll never happen of course, because this country is ruled by a combination of bleeding heart liberals and 'ban anything I don't like' fascists who combine to put a complete stranglehold on sensible debate. You only have to look on here....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) The only reason the government are considering this is the revenue they can derive from drugs sales And the observed decrease in usage, Crime related to drugs, saving millions fighting a massively failed "war", taking the money form street dealers etc etc If you think its wrong for people to get criminal record for committing crime then society really is breaking down. Not at all. Societies evolve and change , normally for the better. Law should as well, How many laws have been changed/repealed in the last 100 years? o we can't deal with the drug problem - let's legalise it. Well, we can't seem to deal with terrorism either, or paedophilia for that matter. Shall we legalise them too and save a lot more of police time? Going to the extremes in an attempt to prove a point fails. Especially in this case. The whole libro-social meddling with criminals is there in front of our eyes for all to see. I've been dealing with these wasters for too many years and next time you moan about a copper not turning up to investigate a burglary, its probabally because half the shift is dealing with smackheads in A&E or those causing carnage on the High Street. you're right, we need to reduce usage , free up police, and reduce crime .... wait.. sound familiar? decriminalisation has shown to do all of these. Prohibition has shown to make all of these. Everything you complain about is BECAUSE of our current process, BECAUSE of Prohibition and has been shown to be decreased by the very thing you don't want.. Edited January 25, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Give it a whirl I say...the present system in place certainly isn't working is it?I think Britain is sometimes stuck in the Victorian era when it comes to subjects such as sex and drugs...let's legalise prostitution while we're at it.The worlds oldest profession;it's gonna happen anyhow,so why not legalise it and garner some revenue? It's too bloody cold this time of year for a knee trembler down a back lane;get 'em into a nice Government run establishment with central heating etc.Sorted. Edited January 25, 2012 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) let's legalise prostitution while we're at it.The worlds oldest profession;it's gonna happen anyhow,so why not legalise it and garner some revenue? Paying for sex or charging for sex is entirely legal. Income derived in this manner is subject to both income tax and VAT. The Aken case and the Polok case confirm this. Edited January 25, 2012 by guest1957 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Paying for sex of charging for sex is entirely legal. Income derived in this manner is subject to both income tax and VAT. The Aken case and the Polok case confirm this. We live and learn...anyone got change of a quid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR1960 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I suppose you could use the example of the decrease in racketeering following the repeal of prohibition in the states. Long time ago I know, but same principle. Still feels like caving in though...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Under the canis regime each addict would get treatment by cold turkey - locked in a room to either come out clean - or in a box, repeat offenders and all dealers would get a lead injection. Giving junkies methodone is not helping them or society ! Would Virgin trains be any better if the owner wasn't a Junkie Edited January 25, 2012 by Canis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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