Wildfowler12 Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Evening all, This is probably my first time in this section. I’m after some advice from those who know better. I recently obtained my first permission, 5 acres on a field behind a garden centre that is plagued with rabbits that keep finding their way into the growing tunnels. The owner has given me airgun permission only, but has said that there is a chance of gaining some shot gun permission elsewhere, if I do a good job for him. After 12 months of door knocking and rejections I though this to be an offer too good to pass, if nothing else, it gives me a reference for help gaining permission elsewhere. Now, the snag is… I’ve got little experience of air rifles, I’ve only ever fired a few PCP’s at targets at a few game fairs. I’ve been doing some research and the internet seems to suggest that a budget gun, spring powered to 10ft lbs should be enough to cleanly dispatch rabbits out to 20 yards. Is there any truth in this? I have seen a few cheap guns that fit this criteria (SMK B2 for example) but although I want to keep the cost down, my primary concern is being able to dispatch humanely, if this means spending £300 to get a 12 ft lbs PCP (S200 / Ultra) then so be it, but if a £50 budget gun will work just as well, then I know which one I’d choose. It is worth me mentioning that the rabbits really are close range. You can almost walk right up to some of them before they make a dash for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitty tree Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 hello wildfowler12. im sure you will get all the feed back you can handle after tea. me to dont know much about all the new air rifles out there.i have a sheridan blue streak no scope just open sites it is a pump up .20 cal. if i give it four pumps it drops rabbits stone dead at 25 yards same as pigeons .good luck on what you choose .regards peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 springers can do it - but you will need practice, lots of it. if you are looking for a fast turn around i would spend a bit (well a lot) more and get a .177 pcp. - no recoil you can watch in the scope where the pellet hits - you can also rest the gun without it affecting the impact point. the .177 vs.22 debate will run forever - but the .177 has got a flatter trajectory than .22 so will be easier to shoot. whatever you use with sub 12ftlb airguns you have got to be accurate - bodyshots on rabbits are generally out - try it and you will get lots of runners, but a well placed head shot will do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 I'm with Pegasus on this one After a few shots the rabbits will wise up and you will probably find you will be shooting at ranges around the 30yd mark. Springers, especially cheap ones may have the power, but are very user unfriendly, and to be doing head shots on bunnies at 30 yds with a springer, you have to be a very practised. Pcp's are much more forgiving and very addictive!! There are plenty to choose from second hand and as Pegasus said, both .177 and .22 are equally efficient at doing the job, but the .177 requires less calculation re poi. That would be my suggestion. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan-250 Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Get a decent second hand springer, weirauch/air arms will be accurate, reliable and sell on for the same you paid. If not much experience I'd go for a .177 due to flatter trajectory. But 10 ft lb is fine, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointer Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 I would honestly say, get the best you can afford. If you buy cheap you will buy twice, purely because you will want to upgrade sooner or later. To be perfectly honest you cannot beat a .22 with a bit of powder behind it, but as I understand the location and your permission won't allow it. Plenty of good kit comes up on here for sale, or put in a wanted ad. As mentioned before, get lots of practice out to 30yds before you go live on the coney. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 You wont find any advantage in .177 until you get to 35yds. Brain shots are not head shots by the way so get to know were to aim depending on any angle. PCP is easier to shoot but a lot of Faff especially if its not your thing (charging gear etc) if you practice your way through a tin of 500 first i could very much recomend a good sping gun like the HW range. In my opinion all shooters who hunt quarry should have at least one 12 ft lb air rifle at home for such jobs they are ideal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 As said, 10 ft lb will be enough with the correct pellet placement but getting that accuracy with a cheap B2 may be pushing it. If you can get something better second hand then go for that, ie BSA Lightning, any of the Weihrauch rifles (except the HW57 or HW25) or even a Gammo or Cometa will be better than the B2. I would also go for .177 as not all of the bunnies will be at 20 yards and you'll probably want to extend the range out to 30 yards and this caliber will be slightly more forgiving with range finding errors but either will do the job. Good luck with those bunnies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccles Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Nice to here you have somewhere to shoot I'd go for a pcp in 177 cal.Lot easier for a novice to shoot with.Get some practice in before you start on the rabbits, you don't want to scare them off before you get to shoot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 why not the HW57? have you had bad experiences? dont bother with cheap rubbish guns. I reckon the cheapest/best new springers that will do the job would be supersport/lightning, webley stingray, cometa 300/400, HW99s, some gamos would be ok but you need to see some reviews to check which are any good. Price range you are looking at £150-£200 new. PCPs I think the cheapest/best setup would be a webley raider 1 shot £200 ish and a hand pump. Obviously second hand is cheaper if you know what you are looking at, and you will need scope/mounts 3-9-40 is typical £50-£60. The thing with airguns is you will need a lot of practice to find the right pellet for your gun and its probably more difficult than you think to hit something like a 2p at 30yrds, my preference is 177 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler12 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Thanks for the advice guys, I'll bear it in mind when I try some out, hopefully next week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharf Rat Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Airguns are all about accuracy. Go to your local airgun club and see what springers everyone is shooting there. I bet it will be nearly a 60/40 split between HWs and Airarms. If you want, you can go for a Brum built BSA or Webley secondhand, Cometa are good, as are CZ. BUT with a £300 budget, you could get a secondhand HW 97 or 77/Airarms TX200, take it to your local HFT club to get accurate over a variety of ranges for hunting and be competitive in another branch of shooting you may find you enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chr15j Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 For £300 look for a Theoben Fenman, you cannot beat these guns. I can outshoot most PCP's with my Theoben. I even outshot the guy I bought it from when he turned up with his shiny new Super10 - I was not popular with him but the others at the club (Portsmouth about 15 years ago) had a good chuckle!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Mule Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Well done on getting your Permission! Also well done on getting your head straight on how to deal with it. As said previously, head-shots/brain shots are the way to go. Personally: when I hit them between the eye and ear, they dropped. I used a CO2 running at about 11ft/lbs in .22. I found even the light pellets were a bit 'loopy'. I have no real experience of a similar set up using .177, but would like to try one. I have a Chinese springer that is of unknown age and power and shoots like a wet **** in a hurricane and produces target hits like a shotgun - so IMHO steer clear of springers. I was once given 5 shots from a Daystate £1000 PCP jobbie and I put them all within about 3/4 of an inch at 65 yards. But £1000 is way out of my budget. The bunnies may well let you walk right up to them now, but let them see you blat one of their mates,,,,,,,, They are daft, not stupid. Well, they are stupid, but,,,, you get my drift. From what I have seen on here , given the choice of a reasonable set up, go for a .20/.177 PCP costing between £300 & £500. That should get you what you need to deal with your 'problem'. Have fun however you play it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chr15j Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 FYI fenman isn't a springer, it uses a gas ram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 I agree that accuracy is the key and .177 is the flatter shooting trajectory. I've used .22 and .177. My calibre of choice is now .177. One thing to consider with the permission that you have. I used to have a brummy Webley Longbow .22 and it was a lovely accurate springer with the right pellet. I too had a permission that was smothered in rabbits but, using the springer, I found that when I dropped one bunny the others would often hang around. However, by the time I had slapped the barrel down, recocked, reached to put another pellet in then slapped the barrel closed again the every rabbit in the county had disappeared. With a PCP it's just a click on firing and minimal movement to reload. The Rabbits may come and share your sandwiches on this permission but, sooner or later, you will want other places to shoot, including having a go at HFT maybe so I would go with the best PCP .177 outfit that you can afford. And one that suits you of course. There usually plenty of seconhand complete outfits on the market. Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Albert Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Evening all, This is probably my first time in this section. I’m after some advice from those who know better. I recently obtained my first permission, 5 acres on a field behind a garden centre that is plagued with rabbits that keep finding their way into the growing tunnels. The owner has given me airgun permission only, but has said that there is a chance of gaining some shot gun permission elsewhere, if I do a good job for him. After 12 months of door knocking and rejections I though this to be an offer too good to pass, if nothing else, it gives me a reference for help gaining permission elsewhere. Now, the snag is… I’ve got little experience of air rifles, I’ve only ever fired a few PCP’s at targets at a few game fairs. I’ve been doing some research and the internet seems to suggest that a budget gun, spring powered to 10ft lbs should be enough to cleanly dispatch rabbits out to 20 yards. Well done on getting your first permission. Before I got my FAC I used to shoot rabbits using an air rifle. I still have it. It's an Air Arms S410 in .22. I'm not going to get into the .22 x .177 argument as I see that it is a personal choice. I prefer the knock down power of the .22. I have had an SMK rifle and yes it is cheap, yes it kills rabbits as long as you hit it in the right place. Agricultural is a polite way to describe it though. If you can shoot a springer well then you can shoot anything. Springers give you a double recoil, first back and then forward. The more you pay, the smoother the recoil. Shooting them is an art and it can take a long time to master that. The benefit of them is they are self contained. PCP's are far easier to shoot well but yet again they take practice to master. There is little or no recoil but the downside is that you need some way of getting the air into them. This is usually either a pump or a divers tank. This cost will need to be taken into account. If you are young and energetic then a pump will be adequate but being an old wrinkly it would take half an hour to get my heart beat to return to anything like normal, so a tank was my option. I regularly shoot HFT with PCP's and it is relatively easy to clover leaf them at 30 yds. I have a Daystate Mk4 IST in .177 and an Air Arms TX200 spring rifle in .177. All three rifles are good rifles. It's well worth paying that bit extra and get quality otherwise you may well be wanting to upgrade within a short time. Before buying a rifle, find a rifle club near you and go and have a look. Personally I would recomend joining an HFT club and try before you buy. It pays in the long run and you will find them a jolly lot, always willing to help and let you try their rifles. In HFT you shoot life size targets of things like bunnies, squidges, rats, crows, pigeons etc. They have a kill zone somewhere on them. Hit the kill zone and the target drops. Great bit of fun and it will get you used to your rifle. Most clubs have rifles that you can borrow to try out. Whatever you do,remember that we,as hunters, have a responsibility to our prey to ensure a clean kill. Before you go for live prey you must know your rifle and the correct POI for the range to avoid wounding. That means practise, the more the better. Once you get into it you will be buying all sorts of gear. It's very addictive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntsman Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 The best advice I will give you "being a novice and never shooting live prey " Take somebody with you who has some proficiency in shooting,they will guide you and advise you. When dealing with shooting Rabbits that are encroaching into poly tunnels,or surrounding areas with an unsafe backstop,STOP and THINK before shooting. Please be aware that there maybe people working inside the poly tunnels,If you are unsure then dont shoot,get somebody to go with you but most of all listen to the advice I have provided. safe shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler12 Posted March 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Although I'm new to airgunning, I have been shooting live quarry for about 10 years now, pritty much all game and fowl, including rabbits. I would consider myself to be one of the most safety consious members of our club. However I do appreciate that a new challenge/sport brings new H+S concerns, especially to a beginner. With that in mind, I have asked a friend with a lot of experience to mentor me throughout the first few months and share my permission too. I'd like to spend money on a PCP, but I think I'm going to get a springer for myself at this early stage, and get plenty of practise in. My mate has a few air rifles and is going to show me the ropes with his AirArms before I buy anything, although that may well swing me towards something abit nicer. Thanks again for all your help, I'll report back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider1979 Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Get a second hand bsa ultra and charging kit for around £350 will never go wrong trust me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler12 Posted May 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) Evening all, I thought I'd revisit this post and give abit of an update. I ended up buying a new, cheap and cheerful Crossman Quest with a 4x32 scope. I had some practise at the range and got the scope relatively zeroed, then headed to the permission after a few days of practise. I wouldn't say the land was 'riddled' with them as suggested but after a few weeks shooting there (one evening a week) I've managed to bag about 15 rabbits and seem to have removed almost all of them. There's a couple that keep outsmarting me After a couple of visits I noticed the owner had a rat problem in his chicken pens and cutting house. Again, not a huge number (maybe 10), but something else for me to sort out. Best of all, I've just got a phone call off a farmer down the road who said... 'I believe you've shot all Daves rabbits, will you come and do the same for me' It took about 15months of door knocking, but finally I'm getting some permissions. Keep your chin up guys, there is still land out there!! Don't give up Edited May 14, 2012 by Wildfowler12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) Well done, keep up the good work! Edited May 14, 2012 by secretagentmole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 nice one is the new land suitable for FAC clearance? if so - would be well worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolhandMal Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Evening all, I thought I'd revisit this post and give abit of an update. I ended up buying a new, cheap and cheerful Crossman Quest with a 4x32 scope. I had some practise at the range and got the scope relatively zeroed, then headed to the permission after a few days of practise. I wouldn't say the land was 'riddled' with them as suggested but after a few weeks shooting there (one evening a week) I've managed to bag about 15 rabbits and seem to have removed almost all of them. There's a couple that keep outsmarting me After a couple of visits I noticed the owner had a rat problem in his chicken pens and cutting house. Again, not a huge number (maybe 10), but something else for me to sort out. Best of all, I've just got a phone call off a farmer down the road who said... 'I believe you've shot all Daves rabbits, will you come and do the same for me' It took about 15months of door knocking, but finally I'm getting some permissions. Keep your chin up guys, there is still land out there!! Don't give up Congratulations your hard work is finally paying off,good luck mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 (edited) Nice one mate keep it up keep them smiling! Edited May 15, 2012 by demonwolf444 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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