bigmanuk Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Hi, I currently have 5 shotguns of various styles, quality etc. I also have a shotgun cabinet designed to hold 5. When I first got my license through my FEO had my cabinet listed as holding a maximum of three so when I purchased the fourth gun I got a call saying that I was over my allowed number. This was quickly resolved with no problems whatsover and I was informed that if I purchased any more I would simply need a new cabinet and to notify them accordingly. There seems to be no guidelines on how many you are permitted to be allowed, so I wondered what the average was with everybody on this forum. For example is there a max figure that licensing authoritys dont like us to go over. Anybodys views on this would be much apprecated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 It will be interesting to see the results of this, I think each force will vary and have different 'rules'. I know someone with a rather full cabinet, I think he has about 6 guns crammed into a 3 gun cabinet or something like that (in West Yorkshire). I've currently got 5 guns in a 5 gun cabinet (with another cabinet ready for the next purchases...), but my FEO actually put it down as a 7 gun as I'd applied for 2 moderators too which are classed as a firearm, and they put you over the cabinet limit so putting down that you've a bigger cabinet saves them sorting it out when the system flags up that you've exceeded your allowance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 if you fit them in...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 As far as i know there is no maximum number, HOWEVER if they deem you have a large number of shotguns/firearms then they can insist on added security and alarms and things i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 I had 8 shotguns in a cabinet rated for 5 for a short while. Spoke to the police first and they said it was fine. There is a suggestion that if you get over 12 separate guns then an alarm may be required. (currently running at 9 shotguns and 9 or 10 firearms plus 5 moderators if you want to count them as extra and an alarm has not been mentioned) I have them split over 3 cabinets with 2 separate ammo safes and 2 integral ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aga man Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) all the best mate. as far as i was concerned if you can get the guns in and lock the door happy days but if you get a jobsworth feo just smile and say ok pal what ever you say. Edited April 15, 2012 by aga man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 This really is something that needs clearing up by ACPO & BSSC. A friend of mine as a lot of guns and was told by his FEO that he had to fit a monitored alarm. My friend said 'where does it say that in the firearms act?' The FEO said 'Don't f'''ing get smart with me boy' My friend asked him to leave and complained to the Chief Constable. The FEO retired on a big pension due to 'ill health & stress'. BASC were consulted whilst this was going on (my friend had a lapsed licence due to FEO) and were as much use as a chocolate fireguard resulting in my friend cancelling his membership. Is it actually a requirement to have a cabinet in law? When gunshops can display hundreds of guns secured by a cable and all that is required is a brick through the window, bolt cutters or a stihl saw and you could take a few guns away??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Marty Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 I have a mate with 11 and intends to buy another this year so I dont know of any limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 im with avon and somerset,i have a 5 gun cab, if i want to keep 6 guns i must have an alarm fitted to the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin128 Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 Provided you can fit all of the shotguns (broken down if necessary) into your "FEO approved cabinet" there is nothing in law that limits you...provided your sgc is current. Nothing to stop you fitting more cabinets either... "New cabinets should conform to the requirements of BS7558" Home Office Security Handbook 2005... http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/173038-safe-shooting/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantellissheffield Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 i have a buffalo river 10 scoped rifle cabinet but my fao put it down as a 20 gun cabinet. it has 2 shotgung and 2 air rifles in it plus all my ammo and night vision ect... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 im with avon and somerset,i have a 5 gun cab, if i want to keep 6 guns i must have an alarm fitted to the house. That's interesting. Do you have that from them in writing? Nothing like that has ever been mentioned to me. Due to a weird quirk even though I live in Glos I'm still covered by A&S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) Is it actually a requirement to have a cabinet in law? When gunshops can display hundreds of guns secured by a cable and all that is required is a brick through the window, bolt cutters or a stihl saw and you could take a few guns away??? NO not a legal requirement to have a cabinet, a Vault is equally acceptable. RFD's are different as they are commercial operations and most have CCTV, alarms, and serious external security. MAny have to have controlled entry/exit as well. A gun smith i know was limited to 15 on site in 3 cabinets until he built a vault with reinforced walls and ceiling and vault door in a building with bars on all windows, second steel security door to main door and monitored alarm with dual activation sensors, glass break sensors and other on top of the normal door contacts etc. Suitable arrangements that meet guidance are required in some circumstances a cabinet may not meet the requirements.... As for the limit there is none set out in the laegislation but if you are a serious collector they may insist on more security. MOst forces seem fine upto 8-10 which is the design limit for most cabinets above that they may want an alarm fitted etc. Monitored alarms are of mixed benefit really as if it goes off what happens? You get a phone call at least 2-3 minutes after activation....So then what? rush home? Call the police? Would you go back into your home knowing there me be people there cracking open your cabinet? Perhaps they have already? AS gunsmith said to me "the securitiy is nonsense really if they come for the guns they just knock on my door and ask politely for the keys and alarm code, not worth being shot/killed over are they" Location my be a reason for them suggesting an alarm i.e. remote rural, were potential thieves will have more time to crack the cabinet but 5 in there or 6 I dont see where the difference really is they get 5 they can do as much damage as 6.... Edited April 15, 2012 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 That's interesting. Do you have that from them in writing? Nothing like that has ever been mentioned to me. Due to a weird quirk even though I live in Glos I'm still covered by A&S. yes it comes with the renewal form,and all so my flo told me that, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapid basher Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 As far as i know there is no maximum number, HOWEVER if they deem you have a large number of shotguns/firearms then they can insist on added security and alarms and things i think. yep any more than six (and quote we like them to be alarmed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bi9johnny Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 when merseyside check your cabinet they ask how many the capacity is , i told my feo it's a twenty and my other cabinet is a 5 so was logged to hold 25 weapons..... my mate in our gun club has 6 cabinets around his house even 1 in the bathroom and they never spoke to him until his sgc/fac renewal and said they think at 42 weapons he is getting close to extra security needed it varies from feo/force/requirements i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickmep Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 sussex requirements are 10 or more alarmed cabinet 13 or more and monitored house alarm. below that just normal door / window security on house and suitable size cabinet(s). my understanding is its really down to feo interpretation of home office guidelines, and to be honest not worth rocking the boat for the price of a couple of alarms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Yep, Avon and Somerset told me that any more than 5 and I have to have an alarm installed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Yep, Avon and Somerset told me that any more than 5 and I have to have an alarm installed.... Hm that's interesting especially if they're classing moderators in a slot too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 I currently have three, three gun cabinets. You can always fit more guns in than the makers say as you can get some muzzle-up and some muzzle down. I think at my last renewal the lady who came out put me down as being able to store around 20. I also have a large ammo cabinet with shelves in which I could store muzzle-loading pistols in if I wanted. You can hav a as many as you want as long as you have suitable security. Personally speaking, if I were going to get to the point of running out of cabinet space then I wouldn't get another cabinet I would get rid of them altogeter and convert my gun room into a secure room and put them on racks on the walls. Either that or I would possibly look at getting one of those nice wooden clad cabinets with glass doors that hold about 30 guns but that would actually probably be even more expensive than securing my gun room properly. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Yep, Avon and Somerset told me that any more than 5 and I have to have an alarm installed.... The thing is that they cannot write policies like that and apply them in a blanket fashion - it's unlawful for them to do so. Every application has to be judged on it's merits and from the standpoint of the applicant not a potential objector. It's pretty irrational to insist on an alarm when you think about it. The security isn't there to stop someone who has decided to steal your guns (as someone has already pointed out) it's there to prevent a casual burglar getting to them. Why then does it become important to have an alarm if you have more then a certain number of guns? If it's needed for five then surely it's needed for one as it doesn't become more likely that a casual burglar is going to steal them simply because there are more of them. On a opersonal note; I have ten (I think) and have had up to twelve or fourteen and I don't have an alarm nor have I ever had one. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Jonathan To state that the police are acting in an unlawful manner is unhelpful and rather naive. Whilst there is no case law on the subject and very little on the subject of security is addressed in the firearms act, the Home office have issued guidelines to CC's on this subject and in these guidelines there are several specific references to alarms where substantial numbers of firearms are owned. Any CC worth his salt would implement a simple policy of requiring cabinets to be alarmed when over a certain number of firearms are held. Hardly the end of the world and compared to some of the conditions imposed on us this one is to our benefit. Unlawful...it is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 It is unlawful. No public authority may impose an arbitrary policy without any discretion in it. There is case-law on the matter although I forget the name. It involved a government department which was given money which it had to distribute to companies in the form of grants to subsidise widgits of some description (as you can see I forget what the items were too). In drawing up guidelines for how the money was to be awarded it included a policy that no widgit that was priced at less than £50 would qualify for the subsidy. They applied this policy strictly and would not enter in to discussion on the matter. A company which made such widgits initiated judicial review proceedings which they won, the court stating that blanket policies were unlawful. The police (as a public authority) cannot impose arbitrary conditions or policies. The policy of the home office that a certificate should never be issued for personal protection, for instance, is similarly unlawful. Yes, it's a small matter but it's important in the overall picture of things as it is very wrong for public authorities to make the law up as they go along. The fact that it involes firearms is the reason they get away with this sort of stuff. If the DVLA insisted that every car over a certain power level had to be fitted with a specific immobiliser or they would refuse to register it there would be hell on and rightly so! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanuk Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 I have a 14 gun cabinet - Brattonsound Titan - with 11 shotguns in it. The cabinet was inspected by an armed response unit when it was upgraded (from 6 gun cabinet). I think at the time it was inspected there would have been 7 or 8 guns in it. The officer who inspected it appeared very happy with it. I have not had any comment on the number of guns. I hope there will be no problem at least up to 14. My house has decent double glazing and a fairly standard alarm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wraivi Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 The guidance notes clearly state that a sgc entitles the holder to posess an unlimited number of shotguns. Providing they are adequately secured. No mention of alarms or cctv etc. So the limits imposed before the requirements to fit alarms are down to the senior feo' s discression it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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