Supersonic Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 ITV1 now, looks good. Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic Posted July 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Can you see today's 20 year olds doing the same??? N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Can you see today's 20 year olds doing the same??? N Different breed of men, them old boys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic Posted July 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Top quote re carpet bombing of Dresden by Auswitz internee "they shouldn't have started it". Quality N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 "They sowed the wind, they will reap the whirlwind" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Ian Hitchin in Sundays Mail called Bomber Harris the butcher. Makes mr Hitchin a vile creature in my book.it compared him to a mass murderer and tried to say yes London suffered but we were wrong to bomb them. Ironic that if it wasnt for the sacrifice made apologists like him would not be here. Hes a whole years ban of swear words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecooper1 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Good programe, well worth the watch them bomb crews were only young men, but tell you what mate, thats bravery on a top level, for that generation of young lads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry31 Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 God help us if we needed today kids to do this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boromir Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 God help us if we needed today kids to do this Maybe if we said the enemy is disrupting the supply of Buckfast or white lightning then maybe they would do something. Joking aside it was an excellent programme. Favorite quote was "You wasnt allowed to be scared if you was, you let the crew down and lose the battle." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djgeoff Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 very good program Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Can you see today's 20 year olds doing the same??? N Yes if it came to it. Every older generation has said that about the then youth but when it is really needed, It is surprising what young people will do. I bet the veterans of the Great War were saying the same about the school leavers of 1936..... Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Ian Hitchin in Sundays Mail called Bomber Harris the butcher. Makes mr Hitchin a vile creature in my book.it compared him to a mass murderer and tried to say yes London suffered but we were wrong to bomb them. Ironic that if it wasnt for the sacrifice made apologists like him would not be here. Hes a whole years ban of swear words. He wasn't calling him a butcher for bombing Germany but for blindly sending the planes up night after night regardless of the loss of life of the aircrews. He was comparing him to a WW1 General sending the troops over the top. He was apparentlyreferred to as 'butcher' by his own crews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper3 Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Top prog.... what a shame our country turned its back on them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Got to remember these bomber crews were also among the best and the brightest young people the country had. I am very fortunate to know a surviving member of Bomber command, in fact I shoot in a wood he owns. He flew in the early days of the war when the RAF were still doing daylight raids. The loss rates were appalling as the Luftwaffe still had air dominance. He flew Blenheims to begin with then Ventura's, he survived an infamous day light (Eindhoven I think?)raid when only one plane made it back out of the squadron (11 lost). They did not meet up with their escort but still plowed on regardless as that was what was expected of them. He has a few hair raising stories to tell, belly landing with injured crew members and with a live bomb still stuck on board etc. What probably save his life ultimately was a move to DeHavilland where he spent the rest of the war as a test pilot on Mosquitoes. The Memorial is long overdue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halight Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Can you see today's 20 year olds doing the same??? N Most would have " I can not be *****" frame of mind. But some I could see do the same. Im only in my early 30s and I would do it. I know others that would also do it. Many of our young that join up now would also do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ550Kevlar Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Was no one stunned at the point when one of the chaps said after 30 missions "they got a break" yet the Americans did 25 and got rotated back to america for training duties. Also that bloke that few 80 missions!!! **** on stick!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 No doubting the courage and bravery of the air crews. But as i said in a earlier post i don't see how the bombing of dresden in 45 can be justified the war was all but over by that stage. If it was wrong for the Germans to bomb civilians in London and Belfast then it was also wrong to bomb German civilians. Around 50 thousand civilians men women and children killed in Dresden in one raid after the war was won was in my opinion wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boromir Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 No doubting the courage and bravery of the air crews. But as i said in a earlier post i don't see how the bombing of dresden in 45 can be justified the war was all but over by that stage. If it was wrong for the Germans to bomb civilians in London and Belfast then it was also wrong to bomb German civilians. Around 50 thousand civilians men women and children killed in Dresden in one raid after the war was won was in my opinion wrong. At the time Germany was launching V1's and V2's at Britain. Like the veteran said if it shortened the war it was worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 At the time Germany was launching V1's and V2's at Britain. Like the veteran said if it shortened the war it was worth it. True if it shortened the war. I don't see how bombing Dresden shortened the war it was all but over. Two wrongs don't make a right. At least when they bombed Belfast they where going after military targets. Harris was obsessed with proving that bombing could win the war. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88b Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Can you see today's 20 year olds doing the same??? N Tonight many of them are trying to sleep in ditches in Afghanistan. An excellent programme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Ordnance-A more accurate estimate of casualties in the Dreseden raids(s) would be 18000-certainly no more than 25000.Harris had little choice but to bomb the city following pressure from Churchill who,in turn, was paving an agreed path for Stalins red army-if you really want to play Top Trumps against a Bomber Command card you only need the Holocaust card to smash it into oblivion. The men and women of B.C. and its leaders are beyond reproach and their methods are not ours to condemn-we sit here now and exercise our rights to question because of the decisions and sacrifices that they made-I,for one,will honour the debt that is owed them while I still live the life that 56000 men fought and died for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic Posted July 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Tonight many of them are trying to sleep in ditches in Afghanistan. An excellent programme A very small minority - my son is 24, done a tour in Iraq and 2 in Afghan and they've now told him he is redundant. BTW I did 14 years in RAF do my opinion is qualified. Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Ordnance-A more accurate estimate of casualties in the Dreseden raids(s) would be 18000-certainly no more than 25000.Harris had little choice but to bomb the city following pressure from Churchill who,in turn, was paving an agreed path for Stalins red army-if you really want to play Top Trumps against a Bomber Command card you only need the Holocaust card to smash it into oblivion. The men and women of B.C. and its leaders are beyond reproach and their methods are not ours to condemn-we sit here now and exercise our rights to question because of the decisions and sacrifices that they made-I,for one,will honour the debt that is owed them while I still live the life that 56000 men fought and died for. As i said in my earlier post their is no doubting the bravery and courage of the men of bomber command. Manny of them were volunteers form N Ireland. I will ask a question was it OK for the Germain's to target British civilians.? 25000 civilians or 18000 still wrong. I don't see how bombing civilians many fleeing the Russians help the Russians war effort. PS As for churchill he was one of the first to distance himself form the policy of area bombing of Dresden ect and his part in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Churchill was indeed a classic turncoat-I have read numerous books about him and I firmly believe that he lied to the british public-he knew,for example,that the German army had very little chance of invading our shores.As for bombing civilians-this became policy initially as a means of breaking moral but only if more important targets were unavailable.The idea was that men with no homes or basic ammenities were less likely to spend their days building weapons.As for justification-Hitler didn't fight the war on his own,he needed the might of the German industries and the will of its people-the people of Dresden were happy to celebrate the Reichs advance into Poland and its initial slaughter of millions of Russian civillians-they could not excuse themselves from the war when the tables were turned just because they lived in a historic city.Blaming Harris was one of our countries dirtiest deeds and if we didn't learn to behave with more honour and respect after 6 years of killing then that was our greatest crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clakk Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 the bomber boys had bigg cojones ,politicians always suck total war was germanys mantra and right up to the end germany was stringing up its own children for running away from being killed .thats why dresden was bombed to make people who put 12 year old children infont of armoured divisions with outdated guns in the name of the fuhrer feel despair and give up .our leaders knew people would abhour so many deaths of civilians thats why he left bomber harris out to dry.war is wrong for 99of reasons but when its caused by such animals you hitch up your britches and open the can of woopass on them.i spent 7 years in the 80s looking across the fulda gap at mr russian and have stood next to nuclear weapons so im glad those brave men did what they had to do regardless of the moral question.god help us all if mr hitler had nukes cos the loon would have used them.remember their sacrifice with pride they fought so we dont have to.though i beleive todays youth would come forward to fight seems to be something we do ,rant over thanks to bomber command and well done . :good: :good: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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