shot string

[kent]

some aftermarket chokes make a big thing of reducing (or near enough eliminating) this occuring. Showing in one advertisement a 17ft shot string reduced to a few inches. Some argue that patterning is a waste of time as it only gives a 2D result on a static target.

This got me thinking from the front to back of a 17ft string surely a bird is never going to be able to fly through this ? when you consider time of flight of said shot front to back over the said 17ft unless you maybee were only just clipping the tail end of a crosser. in deed i have also heard tell that stringing helps achieve better kills (often in relation to smaller bores with equal shot loads to larger bores)

Is it all a load of mumbo jumbo? do shot strings harm or ability to kill clean? Do they actually improve it?

[bedwards1966]

I tend to think that it should give a better chance of a hit on a crosser, as it must give you more allowance for lead.

I certainly don't see any way in which a long shot string could be a bad thing, how could it be a disadvantage?

My guess is that it's all a load of marketing nonsense, to con people into buying something not needed.

[gixer1]

Too many variables to say - sometimes you pluck a duck and find one pellet - yet it dropped out of the sky stone dead.

 

The next one is peppered and still you need to wring its neck.

 

I guess it depends on the particular bird, kinda like humans - some withstand more pain/shock than others.

 

Regards,

Gixer

[motty]

I tend to think that it should give a better chance of a hit on a crosser, as it must give you more allowance for lead.

I certainly don't see any way in which a long shot string could be a bad thing, how could it be a disadvantage?

My guess is that it's all a load of marketing nonsense, to con people into buying something not needed.

A long shot string is a bad thing. This will obviously mean less pellets on the target - ideally we all want the pellets to arrive on target at the same time, to ensure better kills.

[UKJay]

A long shot string is a bad thing. This will obviously mean less pellets on the target - ideally we all want the pellets to arrive on target at the same time, to ensure better kills.

 

The time difference between the front and back of a 20 ft pellet stream reaching target is measured in hundreths of a second and is, for all intents and purposes instantaneous.

[sitsinhedges]

Not to mention the fact that a target is as likely to fit into the gaps between the waves of pellets as be hit by them. A disc of pellets would be far more likely to kill, IMO.

[UKJay]

Not to mention the fact that a target is as likely to fit into the gaps between the waves of pellets as be hit by them. A disc of pellets would be far more likely to kill, IMO.

What speed is your target going at? With pellets travelling hundreds of feet a second, there are no "gaps". No shotgun choke will produce a "disc of pellets"

[EdSolomons]

The time difference between the front and back of a 20 ft pellet stream reaching target is measured in hundreths of a second and is, for all intents and purposes instantaneous.

 

 

Bang on. It's all a load of toilet about long string giving you more margin for error on crossers.

[wymberley]

If you ignore the overall length of a shot string which is 7.5 metres long at 40 metres and look at the length covered by the main bulk (c75%), the string is reduced to c3.6 metres in length. The time taken for these pellets to pass the 40 metre marker is c20 milliseconds. Of greater interest is the loss of some 20% of energy between the first and the last of these pellets, the 40mph pigeon only having travelled some 14 inches in that whole time span.

 

On the other hand you could grab the gun and some cartridges and go out and enjoy yourself.

[kent]

A long shot string is a bad thing. This will obviously mean less pellets on the target - ideally we all want the pellets to arrive on target at the same time, to ensure better kills.

 

How far do you feel the fastest crossing pigeon say will get in a front to back 17ft string? will it actually fly past the back half, back quarter?

[Vince Green]

When shot leaves the barrel air rushes through the mass of pellets creating uneven side forces which expands the pattern. Its also true to say that because of this explosive air resistance the pellets at the back retain more energy and at 40 yds could very well be out in front having passed through the pack. Shot stringing is a complex subject.

[hillmouse]

I would love to see proof of this inches long shot string. Ye cannae change the laws of physics Jim, as Scotty used to say.

 

I would spend more time worrying about hitting the target rather than what you hit it with.

[yankeedoodlepigeon]

I have no clue on this but every slow motion film of shotgun pellets I have seen have been in a clump I have never seen a 17ft long string or anything near.

 

[compo90]

as has been said the quick speed of the whole affair means that in those fractions of a second it makes absolutley no ******* difference.

 

who gives a **** as long as they hit the target/bird/rabbit

[yankeedoodlepigeon]

I think it's when you can't hit the target you start to look into it a little too much.

[coyotemaster]

A long shot string is a bad thing. This will obviously mean less pellets on the target - ideally we all want the pellets to arrive on target at the same time, to ensure better kills.

 

I see much wisdom in Motty's thinking and a lot of cobblers in some others. If the shot string is elongated ( and that has more to do with pellet hardness than any choke apparatus) you have a less dense pattern and all this nonsense about time of flight eludes me. The bird and pellets intersect for an instant and you want as many pellets as possible involved in that collision-end of story. Pellets do string and the softer the pellet the longer the shot string, I have never seen evidence of pellets passing each other from the rear to front, more conjecture.

To demonstrate that hardness makes for shorter strings witness someone shooting steel for the first time. They are dealing with a short shot string and most likely a tighter pattern than they are used to dealing with due to harder pellets, and they usually cuss the loads.

To have the shortest possible shot string shoot HARD shot and keep the shot column reasonably short---one reason I am a believer in MAGNUM grade lead shot and 21 gram loads.

If you have access to Brister's book "SHOTGUNNING THE ART & SCIENCE" he has done the work and shows examples of shot stringing with so called promotional loads with soft shot on a MOVING pattern board. I realize this is way over the top in terms of dedication to proving a point but that's the way some of us prove theory. Or just shoot on and don't worry about it!

[coyotemaster]

The time difference between the front and back of a 20 ft pellet stream reaching target is measured in hundreths of a second and is, for all intents and purposes instantaneous.

 

AGREED if the target is motionless.

[kent]

When shot leaves the barrel air rushes through the mass of pellets creating uneven side forces which expands the pattern. Its also true to say that because of this explosive air resistance the pellets at the back retain more energy and at 40 yds could very well be out in front having passed through the pack. Shot stringing is a complex subject.

 

Is this a factor on producing poor patterns? does the rear shot collide with the front on passing through do you feel?

[coyotemaster]

Is this a factor on producing poor patterns? does the rear shot collide with the front on passing through do you feel?

 

Did you never consider that the pellets in the back are deformed by setback deformation and are drafting from the front pellets before they finally encounter atmosphere on their flat sides and leave the pattern at oblique angles. Antimony is expensive and most shot produced contains minimal amounts, soft shot deforms easily and hard shot is expensive. It is a given and I have read it here a hundred times about how cheap this load or that is, the inescapable truth is-You get what you pay for, never more sometimes less. Hard shot equals good patterns, soft shot is for ballast.

[wymberley]

Did you never consider that the pellets in the back are deformed by setback deformation and are drafting from the front pellets before they finally encounter atmosphere on their flat sides and leave the pattern at oblique angles. Antimony is expensive and most shot produced contains minimal amounts, soft shot deforms easily and hard shot is expensive. It is a given and I have read it here a hundred times about how cheap this load or that is, the inescapable truth is-You get what you pay for, never more sometimes less. Hard shot equals good patterns, soft shot is for ballast.

 

That just about wraps it up.

 

All is not lost though; you can always use the ballast on woodpigeon provided it's No 71/2.

[kent]

Did you never consider that the pellets in the back are deformed by setback deformation and are drafting from the front pellets before they finally encounter atmosphere on their flat sides and leave the pattern at oblique angles. Antimony is expensive and most shot produced contains minimal amounts, soft shot deforms easily and hard shot is expensive. It is a given and I have read it here a hundred times about how cheap this load or that is, the inescapable truth is-You get what you pay for, never more sometimes less. Hard shot equals good patterns, soft shot is for ballast.

 

String is not something i have actually considered much at all, i do understand time of flight and its relationship with POI and a current advert just set me thinking (no firm views either way yet.

[motty]

as has been said the quick speed of the whole affair means that in those fractions of a second it makes absolutley no ******* difference.

 

who gives a **** as long as they hit the target/bird/rabbit

 

Really, we should all give a ****. It's the difference between wounding a goose (through not enough pellets on target) or killing it stone dead with multiple strikes to the head/neck area - something that i strive for.

[JDog]

some aftermarket chokes make a big thing of reducing (or near enough eliminating) this occuring. Showing in one advertisement a 17ft shot string reduced to a few inches. Some argue that patterning is a waste of time as it only gives a 2D result on a static target.

This got me thinking from the front to back of a 17ft string surely a bird is never going to be able to fly through this ? when you consider time of flight of said shot front to back over the said 17ft unless you maybee were only just clipping the tail end of a crosser. in deed i have also heard tell that stringing helps achieve better kills (often in relation to smaller bores with equal shot loads to larger bores)

Is it all a load of mumbo jumbo? do shot strings harm or ability to kill clean? Do they actually improve it?

 

I rather hope that my cartridges produce a lot of shot string as it is the only way I could possibly hit those long crossers.

[kent]

Really, we should all give a ****. It's the difference between wounding a goose (through not enough pellets on target) or killing it stone dead with multiple strikes to the head/neck area - something that i strive for.

 

I don't think the guy is saying he dont care about wounders. Do you have any evidence of birds flying though pellets because of stringing? say even ending up further back in the body rather than the head/neck? I exept what Coyotemaster is saying about possible collisions (these would obviously show in 2D patterning) but remain unconviced on forward allowance lost presently. If shot is traveling as slow as 600fps (pretty slow i realise) at target thats still 0.02 of a second to connect if my maths is correct front to back. Is it going to miss killing many geese if the front of the column connected centre head? I do have my doubts that shot columns can actually be as much as 17ft but be reduced effectively to nil by changing to an aftermarket choke (thats just i know a little too much about marketing though) but take it as fact it can please

[motty]

I don't think the guy is saying he dont care about wounders. Do you have any evidence of birds flying though pellets because of stringing? say even ending up further back in the body rather than the head/neck? I exept what Coyotemaster is saying about possible collisions (these would obviously show in 2D patterning) but remain unconviced on forward allowance lost presently. If shot is traveling as slow as 600fps (pretty slow i realise) at target thats still 0.02 of a second to connect if my maths is correct front to back. Is it going to miss killing many geese if the front of the column connected centre head? I do have my doubts that shot columns can actually be as much as 17ft but be reduced effectively to nil by changing to an aftermarket choke (thats just i know a little too much about marketing though) but take it as fact it can please

I am unsure about length of shot strings. All i know is that a clay dies with 1 pellet causing a break, a goose will require more. All pellets connecting at once is the ideal. I have done a fair bit of pattern testing with steel loads and even in 2D many of the patterns aren't great, with many areas where a goose head/neck could slip through. Add a shot string

to that and that makes it worse.

I've bought a Wad wizard for my 12 and will be doing a fair bit of testing shortly to see how it compares to my standard chokes. This will then help me decide if i should buy an aftermarket choke for my 10.